The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess

[I-n-j-i-n]

This is all nitpicking I know, since the game will undoubtedly be great, but I'm disappointed that the music will be MIDI again. They surely can't fault the technicalities of a mini-dvd this time. Also, it seems that Koji Kondo is somewhat equivalent to John Williams as in that the musical output in his games as of late hasn't been as groundbreaking as they used to. But of course, the music is still great so it's no big deal. And apparently the sound on the Wiimote isn't so hot. But they were saying it sounded tinny ever since they tested it.

And the biggest 'complaint' about the gameplay(which is more like an observation) is that the game doesn't stray too much from the OoT formula. At least not until the wolf-Link/Twilight stuff starts happening.

But between Okami and Twilight Princess, it's been a great year when it comes down to epic-scale adventure games.

[The Mutericator]

This is all nitpicking I know, since the game will undoubtedly be great, but I'm disappointed that the music will be MIDI again. They surely can't fault the technicalities of a mini-dvd this time. Also, it seems that Koji Kondo is somewhat equivalent to John Williams as in that the musical output in his games as of late hasn't been as groundbreaking as they used to. But of course, the music is still great so it's no big deal. And apparently the sound on the Wiimote isn't so hot. But they were saying it sounded tinny ever since they tested it.

And the biggest 'complaint' about the gameplay(which is more like an observation) is that the game doesn't stray too much from the OoT formula. At least not until the wolf-Link/Twilight stuff starts happening.

But between Okami and Twilight Princess, it's been a great year when it comes down to epic-scale adventure games.

I definitely agree that they should have put more effort into the music. And the wolf Link stuff starts almost immediately...

I believe I asked where the reviewer said it was too easy?

[I-n-j-i-n]

Gamespot reviewer I believe. IGN also seems to point out that its difficulty is pretty much status quo of Zelda games. But "difficult" as in that it's an epic undertaking still.

I don't know. I thought what kept Okami from being truly great was how I could go through it without even coming close to dying once. A lot of recent Zelda games were like that to me. But I wonder if that's just personal preference or not. But at least Zelda games are not kid-gamer easy like Okami.

[Rellik]

Everything I've read has indicated that TP is harder than OoT, MM, or WW - there could be other information out there, though.

Personally, I'm perfectly happy that they're sticking with a MIDI system over redbook. I agree that for certain settings/scenes a realistic orchestral sound is called for and therefore redbook should be employed, but as a general proposition I don't think the whole "full symphonic" thing really applies to Zelda. At least not Zelda as we know it - it all depends on style. From what I know of the game (and basing it on previous iterations of 3-D Zelda), I believe a synthesized soundtrack suits it perfectly, as long as the soundset is up to the task.

A Zelda that departs more from previous ones might be better suited to an audio soundtrack - still not the "Lord of the Rings" or "Metal Gear Solid" type of stuff, that's just not Zelda (except for very specific kinds of situations), but I think it could work out great for a next generation of Zelda "feel". Also, if redbook has ever been successfully employed in a seamless, dynamic musical context-sensitive system (as was indicated in the thread), then that's very impressive, and it'd be cool to see a link/hear an audio example.

----

Oh yeah, and here's a thought I want to put out there: I've seen comments all around that the Gamespot review should "bring us to our senses" - fundamentally, why would we want to be brought to our senses? Isn't it more fun to ride the hype? Twilight Princess is going to be the greatest thing ever. You get out of hype what you put into it - if you don't believe the game is the best thing ever, you won't have the same blissful experience (both pre, during, and post-game) as someone who is steadfast in their faith. A lot of games I've played I consider "OMG BEST GAME EVER" - when I think about the time I put into them it makes me happy - it's a harmless self-deception, so why not give in to it? Twilight Princess will rule the world!

[I-n-j-i-n]

With games this good, some reviews have seemed a bit lacking. Almost like the reviewer was doing it to be a fan and not to critique. Gamespy's review was just horrible in that regard. We all know how great Zelda is, but reviews should do a more thorough job of looking at it critically. Actually, the last time the reviews seemed almost too cheery was with Gears of War. But great games deserve those kinds of reviews I suppose.

The harshest and my favorite type of reviewer is 1up show where they discuss about every single aspect of a game and GameTrailers.com, which actually had a decently rough critique of FFXII which got the fanatics boiling. But I thought those were valid points and does better justice with reviews. I think that's all it boils down to. Not scores and not some 'killjoy factor' with reviews that try to be more down to earth and not in the heavens.

I guess I shouldn't feel too surprised about all this since I get the same flak when I try to critique something that's wide out panned as being great. I guess it's pretty typical.

PS- I think I might somehow end up with both versions of Twilight Princess though. Or just with the Wii version if I can get a Wii anytime soon (probably not. I swore to wait for a price drop). And one interesting thing about Twilight Princess according to 1up show is that apparently, the game level design is flipped horizontally for the GC and Wii version. Right handed Link on the Wii version. lol

[Hellcom]

Remember, they are reviewing it as a Wii game, not as a GCN game. As a Wii game, it has room for improvement graphically. I'd be interested to see how the GCN version does in reviews though.

Yeah, but does that mean an 8.8, especially when every other reviewing site gave it a 9.5+. Are they really saying that this game is comparable to Super Monkey Ball (8.3)and Trauma Center (8.0)?

I take this back. After going over the GS review in more detail, and looking at how the rating system works at GS I would probably score about the same on the GS system. It's more the fault of the review system than the reviewer in this case. The sound or graphic rating has an equal value to gameplay or value rating, and the overall score is based on an average of these factors. When IMO, gameplay and value should have a higher proportional impact on the score. It should also be taken into account that he did give it a 10 tilt rating.

If I were to guess my rating on the GS system, it would most likely come out like this:

Gameplay - 10 (It's freakin' zelda)

Graphics - 9 (GC level, but good art design)

Sound - 8 (High quality midi, but still midi)

Value- 9 (Should have tons of side quests)

Tilt - 10 (It's freakin' zelda)

Score - 9.2

Only 0.4 points higher than the GS review.

[anthonium]

So far I've only read the IGN review. I can let midi music slide by though orchestrated would have been incredible, but I'm disappointed in how they mentioned boss fights were fairly easy...meh...

[Fire in the Hole]

Remember, they are reviewing it as a Wii game, not as a GCN game. As a Wii game, it has room for improvement graphically. I'd be interested to see how the GCN version does in reviews though.

Yeah, but does that mean an 8.8, especially when every other reviewing site gave it a 9.5+. Are they really saying that this game is comparable to Super Monkey Ball (8.3)and Trauma Center (8.0)?

I take this back. After going over the GS review in more detail, and looking at how the rating system works at GS I would probably score about the same on the GS system. It's more the fault of the review system than the reviewer in this case. The sound or graphic rating has an equal value to gameplay or value rating, and the overall score is based on an average of these factors. When IMO, gameplay and value should have a higher proportional impact on the score. It should also be taken into account that he did give it a 10 tilt rating.

If I were to guess my rating on the GS system, it would most likely come out like this:

Gameplay - 10 (It's freakin' zelda)

Graphics - 9 (GC level, but good art design)

Sound - 8 (High quality midi, but still midi)

Value- 9 (Should have tons of side quests)

Tilt - 10 (It's freakin' zelda)

Score - 9.2

Only 0.4 points higher than the GS review.

Um, no. If it were simply an average of scores, Jeff's review actually scores Twilight Princess at 8.8. There's some additional weight involved, and your review is likely more of a 9.3-9.4 (notice that if it were simply an average, no game could ever have an odd-digited score such as a 9.9, 9.7 or 9.3, but many do). I don't care about the 8.8, but most of Jeff's gripes within the written review seem ridiculous to me and give credence to the fanboy insults about how he's a fat moron.

[CE]

Leaked Twilight Princess music.

It has some mp3s like the open treasure chest tune (with cheesy choir samples!) and the overworld (the same music as Oot's Hyrule Field).

And yeah, you can totally hear the MIDI here. You notice it's the exact same sound as Oot had. It's not bad, but in my opinion, Zelda could do with a fully blown orchestrated soundtrack.

In short, melodies are nice, instruments are meh.

The overworld does has some nicely welcomed pan flutes though. And it does sound epic. Of course, you notice it could've been better if...

[Ninja-san]

Leaked Twilight Princess music.

It has some mp3s like the open treasure chest tune (with cheesy choir samples!) and the overworld (the same music as Oot's Hyrule Field).

And yeah, you can totally hear the MIDI here. You notice it's the exact same sound as Oot had. It's not bad, but in my opinion, Zelda could do with a fully blown orchestrated soundtrack.

In short, melodies are nice, instruments are meh.

The overworld does has some nicely welcomed pan flutes though. And it does sound epic. Of course, you notice it could've been better if...

Yea but the music in zelda games always seem to be the same. But the music can be alot better here since everything else looks wonderful.

[CE]

Shit I suck. I can't tell if the Overworld is orchestrated or not...

[supremespleen]

Ouch, these are a bet disappointing. I remember reading ages ago that the whole thing would be orchestrated.

I'm sure they'll sound alright in-game though.

[CE]

Also, holy shit. Watch the IGN video review. It doesn't show any spoilers, it only shows some areas and just how big they are. If you want to completely avoid them don't see it.

It does show images of bosses I could have done without though but heck I was asking for it checking out a video review

Somewhere in the middle of the review, he says how Nintendo has put a lot more effort into the storyline and how the cinematics help you immerse yourself into the game. Then he shows one, completely cut off from any information so you don't actually know what's going on, but goddamn is it intense. It shows one of the Twilight beasts grabbing a Hyrule guard, probably one of Zelda's bodyguards. Then he says "And one more question to the people of Hyrule. Life? Or death?" and then Zelda (who is wielding a sword, like a stiletto, which she'll maybe use if she's in Brawl) drops the sword and it falls in slow motion. It's tip hits the floor, then one of the hand guards and then it stays there. It cuts to a scene with a dark background and that girl or boy that's kidnapped in the beggining of the game, holding a dagger. His/her eyes are milky white. He/she raises the dagger and then gasps and you see it fall in the ground where Link's sword is thrusted into next. We can assume Link attacked him/her.

Then a strange, string music starts playing and Link, also with milky white eyes starts running in slow motion towards the only part that's not a black background: a green hill with the triforce shining on the top. He runs and as he reaches the small hill, what looks like 3 hooded figures rise below the triforce and the screen flashes. All you hear is distorted laughter and what looks like ghostly bodies of that boy/girl falling head down. Then it shows Link smiling creepily and he comes to himself with a gasp. He's in front of a grotto. Finally, he just drops to his knees. It sent shivers down my spine.

Aw yeah.

[Ab56 v2 aka Ash]

^Not any darker than previous Zelda games MY ARSE.

[Ninja-san]

Stupid question but is the GC version one or two discs?

[Mouser X]

In regards to the music, Koji Kondo wanted to do an orchestrated soundtrack. As I recall, he actually pressed for it pretty hard. However, because of the space limitations of the Gamecube disc, that wasn't possible. Because Twilight Princess is a GC port, it doesn't surprise me that the music is sequence based. And, for those wondering, I've seen this talked about at various sources. However, since I wouldn't know what to look for, or where to look, I can't link to any of them. I agree, it's disappointing that it's not orchestrated, but I don't see it as a big deal. Though, considering that Koji Kondo wanted it fully orchestrated, I'm hoping that at least some of the tracks are (the important ones, I'd think). So, anyone willing to look that up, and find a source? It was talked about at least a year ago (most likely more). Mouser X out.

[The Mutericator]

Gamespot reviewer I believe. IGN also seems to point out that its difficulty is pretty much status quo of Zelda games. But "difficult" as in that it's an epic undertaking still.

I don't know. I thought what kept Okami from being truly great was how I could go through it without even coming close to dying once. A lot of recent Zelda games were like that to me. But I wonder if that's just personal preference or not. But at least Zelda games are not kid-gamer easy like Okami.

Amen to Okami being too easy. But I almost always die several times my first way through a Zelda game, and I don't see this being any different.

Though I do sort of wish they'd upped the difficulty a bit... At least it will be harder in comparison to Wind Waker (in actual challenge, not time investment, though now that I mention it, that too).

[anne amère]

Most Zelda bosses are pretty easy save maybe GLEEOK from the first one, but I blame Link's lack of diagonal maneuverability for that.

[The Damned]

According to some reviews, it seems that the Wiimote might actually be a hinderance at some spots and apparently it doesn't allow the finesse that one expects out of a motion sensing controller. And for a Wii to basically play an enhanced Gamecube graphics on it, I would think it would be easier to critique, whether it's fair or not.

I think I'll stick to the Gamecube version.

How easily can you do a spin-attack maneuver in Wind Waker?

I dunno about you, but I could almost never do one without queuing. It was even harder in the Gamecube version of OoT. Aiming for enemies in Wind Waker was also a pain sometimes.. and trying to shoot on horseback in OoT/MM was also very difficult, especially when hunting for Poes.

No offense, but saying that "according to some people the wiimote isn't that great sometimes" is kinda silly. And people's expectations of a motion sensing controller might vary.. just a little bit.

I would try it before I swore off the Wii version, at any rate.

I think it's the whole point that the spin maneuver isn't as easy to pull off. Otherwise it'd be cheap. That's why the designs of the older games were much tighter in that sense. It all corresponded to the movements of the sticks and buttons well. I don't think this is surprising though. Even with the Twilight Princess, I could definitely see Nintendo yet to fully master the new controller.

Another criticism I saw coming a mile away was how apparently the game is pretty easy compared to the likes of Majora's Mask or OoT. It seems that all the new Zeldas have a much easier learning curve. I wish the games were as challenging as LttP once was.

That's a good point. It's possible that they wanted to make certain moves easier to let people get used to the controls. I have heard battles are difficult, not necessarily because of the wiimote, but more because the enemies are just hard - unlike in the other 3D games(at least Wind Waker, my memory of the other two is dimmer).

LttP was challenging? I mean, I was really young at the time I first played it, but it was no more challenging than any other game I played. Although, pretty much the only thing I clearly remember from it was discovering Chris Houlihan's room...

LttP was really tedious, but not quite as challenging as Link's Awakening. HOLY SHIT to Link's Awakening I might say. I still haven't beaten Eagle's tower, prolly cuz I haven't played the game sincee I was young, but that game seemed to me to be the epitome of brain killer.

Amen. Eagle's Tower had some KILLER puzzles. They should bring those back, but I'm sure Nintendo probably regretted making it that hard.

Maybe the first time through, but once you've played it, you can usually work through the game pretty easily.

[Dr.Cocoon]

Leaked Twilight Princess music.

It has some mp3s like the open treasure chest tune (with cheesy choir samples!) and the overworld (the same music as Oot's Hyrule Field).

And yeah, you can totally hear the MIDI here. You notice it's the exact same sound as Oot had. It's not bad, but in my opinion, Zelda could do with a fully blown orchestrated soundtrack.

In short, melodies are nice, instruments are meh.

The overworld does has some nicely welcomed pan flutes though. And it does sound epic. Of course, you notice it could've been better if...

That music is from the 2005 demo, just listen to recent videos, the overworld music is different.

[CE]

Leaked Twilight Princess music.

It has some mp3s like the open treasure chest tune (with cheesy choir samples!) and the overworld (the same music as Oot's Hyrule Field).

And yeah, you can totally hear the MIDI here. You notice it's the exact same sound as Oot had. It's not bad, but in my opinion, Zelda could do with a fully blown orchestrated soundtrack.

In short, melodies are nice, instruments are meh.

The overworld does has some nicely welcomed pan flutes though. And it does sound epic. Of course, you notice it could've been better if...

That music is from the 2005 demo, just listen to recent videos, the overworld music is different.

Wha? Show me one please.

[watkinzez]

Leaked Twilight Princess music.

It has some mp3s like the open treasure chest tune (with cheesy choir samples!) and the overworld (the same music as Oot's Hyrule Field).

And yeah, you can totally hear the MIDI here. You notice it's the exact same sound as Oot had. It's not bad, but in my opinion, Zelda could do with a fully blown orchestrated soundtrack.

In short, melodies are nice, instruments are meh.

The overworld does has some nicely welcomed pan flutes though. And it does sound epic. Of course, you notice it could've been better if...

That music is from the 2005 demo, just listen to recent videos, the overworld music is different.

Wha? Show me one please.

The overworld music was in the E3 2006 Cube trailer (the one that started with Link jumping out of the way of a horse).

[Majin GeoDooD]

My copy of TP will arrive Monday.. yet I can't buy a Wii until later in the week.. :(

[Ab56 v2 aka Ash]

Ah quit yer bitchin, geo. I can't play until after finals (Dec. 6th!). That's if I manage to get one...

[Aninymouse]

I am playing this game right now.

Bobber fishing is kinda difficult, but maybe that's because I'm not using bait... but I have no bottle yet <.<

Amazing game, though.