OzGuy

What genre of music fits each style of Sonic best?

54 posts in this topic

Yeah, I tend to be very vocal when it comes to my opinions. I do it just to grab attention, express my emotions and make my point clearer. You shouldn't take it personally, really.

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Just gonna throw this out there:

"Catchy," in the context of BGM for a Sonic the Hedgehog game, absolutely means "good." xD

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I'm not used to rate music in the context of something. I'm pretty unforgiving. Besides, there's better music. SEGA Sound Team and Cash Cash do a way better job IMHO. So in the context of Sonic the Hedgehog VGM that's not the case.

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9 hours ago, SuaveDandy said:

200 bpm? That's insane even for most speed metal. That's a hardcore techno tempo. Here, take a look.

 

 

City escape is about 260 bpm, I checked. Seriously, take the original file and put a metronome over it. Its much faster than the track you linked there so... 

9 hours ago, SuaveDandy said:

Catchy does not equal good at all. Pop music is catchy. It doesn't mean it's good. It means that it's easier to remember and sing along with. It also means that the music is able to ingect itself into your brain like some kind of a drug.

I will agree that catchy doesn't inherently mean good. To take a song everyone seems to unanimously hate - Friday by Rebecca Black - that could be considered catchy I reckon. It certainly sticks in the brain and makes it rot. 

9 hours ago, SuaveDandy said:

And what? I can't voice my opinion regarding Sonic's music? I thought this thread was meant for exactly that. I just said what music suits Sonic best in my opinion. I really don't understand why you take it as some kind of offence directed to you personally. Neither did I say that it's bad. It's just "meh." Come on, it's just a band. One of millions. Why do you care?

I'd like to point out something you said earlier: 

On 4/8/2018 at 1:10 PM, SuaveDandy said:

Speaking about these songs' quality compared to other music. If you compare it to pop punk then yeah, they're better. But only compared to most songs because modern pop punk is 90% as uninteresting and boring. But if we're talking about The Ramones and early Green Day then no.

And the fact that they're less repetitive than normal doesn't make these songs good. There's a lot of VGM music. Of course the amount of repetitive or down right horrible music is way bigger than that of good music. That doesn't speak about the songs' quality. It's just statistics.

Seems to me you're pretty much stating pop punk, Crush 40 and well... a LOT of music is bad. Saying something is "down right horrible" usually means "bad" in my experience. As for you voicing your opinion, you seem to be going a bit beyond that - For example, I'm not sure what you mean by statistics. Who's statistics are you talking about? What is it based on? Subjective opinion? Who's opinion? Yours? Are you saying that you think most music is bad or have you read something and believe it? This is where I I question if it is your "opinion" because you seem to be talking about something beyond that. You're talking like you did some research and found out that in fact, these songs are objectively bad, and we're all wrong for liking it. Maybe i'm overthinking what you're saying but that is how you're coming across to me, reading your posts. 

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I'm just saying that if the songs are above average in a particular genre, that doesn't make them automatically good.

And yes, I subjectively think that most pop punk is mediocre.

Man, you don't count the BPM correctly. You count every drum note. The actual BPM is 130. You should count every 1/4 of a tact. One and two and. Did you listen to Speed Bitch? Sounds like you didn't. Its beats are like WAAAAAAY faster.

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1 hour ago, SuaveDandy said:

Again, I listened to all of SA1's songs. I know what I'm talking about.

Out of sheer curiosity: How old are you?

Because the stuff you're saying here sounds like things I'd have said when I was a teenage, metal supremacist. 

1 hour ago, SuaveDandy said:

I know what I'm talking about.

 

30 minutes ago, SuaveDandy said:

Man, you don't count the BPM correctly. You count every drum note. The actual BPM is 130

No you don't lol

City Escape is played at 130 BPM double-time. That is the equivalent of 8th notes at 260 BPM. If you don't believe me, put a metronome over it at 130 and then at 260. 

In this thread you have claimed:

• The song's are slow, which we can objectively prove most of them are not.

• You have claimed that the melodies are not memorable. But again, the songs are extremely popular. So they just might not be memorable to YOU

• Stated that Crush 40's songs are just slow strumming of chords...which again, is objectively false as evidenced by songs like Open Your Heart, Live and Learn, and just about all the others. 

So you don't know what you're talking about.

You just don't like the songs and rather than just accept that and move on, you're trying to "prove" that you're somehow right. You don't need to justify it; just say you don't like it.

 

 

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2 hours ago, SuaveDandy said:

Again, I listened to all of SA1's songs. I know what I'm talking about.

So did I. I also do.

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25 minutes ago, AngelCityOutlaw said:

City Escape is played at 130 BPM double-time. That is the equivalent of 8th notes at 260 BPM. If you don't believe me, put a metronome over it at 130 and then at 260. 

I don't want to derail this thread too much but why is it double time? When exactly does a piece of music go from being "normal tempo" to double time? 

Is there some element of accenting that i'm missing or is it just because it is considered too fast for the human hear to reasonably compute at that speed? I have no problems following it personally but if you take something from say thrash metal or power metal thats going completely off the wall (e.g. battery by metallica or anything by dragonforce lul), I would probably consider that double time just because trying to follow that with the standard snare on 2nd/4th beats like other songs is just bonkers, and often, those songs have half time (or normal time?) sections to balance out the utter crazy, making it easier to consider those things double time.  In contrast, City Escape is always at the same frantic pace. However, looking it up, it looks like officially its 130 so yes, Suavedandy, I will concede this point, but I don't fully understand why hahaha. 

Again, don't want to derail the thread, but i'm curious - I asked quite a few of my music friends from OCR and about half thought it was 130, half thought it was 260, so...

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39 minutes ago, WillRock said:

Is there some element of accenting that i'm missing

Indeed!

In a double-time feel, the note values are halved, giving the impression of a doubled tempo. If you set your metronome to 130 over Escape From The City, you'll hear that the snare hits are on the off-beats, four per measure. So instead of the snare stressing, 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & it's stressing 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 &

Also, say your guitar riff's rhythm is a steady string of 8th notes at 200. You will get the same effect if you play the riff at 100 BPM, but all sixteenth notes.

Sounds to me like the Crush 40 song probably was recorded at 130, but with a double-time feel. Many find it easier to follow the click at that pace.

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9 minutes ago, AngelCityOutlaw said:

Say your guitar riff's rhythm is a steady string of 8th notes at 200. You will get the same effect if you play the riff at 100 BPM, but all sixteenth notes.

Sounds to me like the Crush 40 song probably was recorded at 130, but with a double-time feel. Many find it easier to follow the click at that pace.

That basically tells me its interchangeable and in the eye of the beholder, which is kinda what I gathered from talking about it with my friends. I guess i'd ask Crush 40 if I wanted an official answer, but if I wrote that piece of music, or wrote something with a drum beat of that speed, I would tell you its 260, not 130. That said, if people found it easier to follow using 130, I wouldn't complain. Its still the same song. 

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I'm 19. Will be 20 in July.

Hardcore still feels faster. Did anybody actually listen to the song I posted? Okay, here's another example. Clearly around 200bpm. 

 

I used "forgettable" as a synonym for "passable."

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7 hours ago, Nabeel Ansari said:

City Escape is probably one of the best rock songs, ever. Checks all the boxes.

There's no cowbell.

EDIT: Actually, there might be in that one fill

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I've been glancing at this topic in and around for days and besides making me wonder how a few games on a Sega Genesis console could've provided almost 25 years of debate, I've found myself wondering why similar topics of this sort aren't also done for Sonic's most famous competitor: Mah-ree-ohh.

It was only soon after that it dawned on me the reason the Mario series isn't nearly this hotly and ridiculously debated is because the series itself does a much better job of being consistent in its quality - both in gameplay and music. This is an important thing to think about (for such an academic-only subject, anyway) as many would incorrect to assume gameplay and music are very distinct things that could have nothing to do with each other, but in fact they are very subtly intertwined and required for the "experience" that gamers continue to dive in for.

Should anyone be surprised that the music of the Sonic games are being as debated here as it would the games themselves? I was for a bit until the dawning crowned.

Still doesn't answer for me why this game series is so disproportionately significant when it seems like there's only 4 games plus Sonic Mania that the fandumb can even remotely agree on they actually liked. Normally after a game series starts puttering out with increasingly divisive quality titles for a few years with little hope in satisfying them, it dies out or at least goes on life support where new stuff from it trickles out very, very slowly for old times' sake. How so much of this got squeezed from a frustrating game mechanic is impossible to comprehend - no, seriously, those "classic" Sonic games are just "run right as fast as you can until you hit something that makes you lose all the 120 rings you spent so much time gathering and then a loop here and there". 

I blame the latent furry fetishism our society is still only yet shedding light on.

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2 hours ago, Meteo Xavier said:

I've been glancing at this topic in and around for days and besides making me wonder how a few games on a Sega Genesis console could've provided almost 25 years of debate, I've found myself wondering why similar topics of this sort aren't also done for Sonic's most famous competitor: Mah-ree-ohh.

This isn't about classic Sonic vs modern Sonic. That has nothing to do with that. Our debate was about Sonic's pop punk and Sonic's pop punk only which is only a quarter of all Sonic's music.

2 hours ago, Meteo Xavier said:

no, seriously, those "classic" Sonic games are just "run right as fast as you can until you hit something that makes you lose all the 120 rings you spent so much time gathering and then a loop here and there".

"Run right as fast as you can" will only get you killed. You should actively avoid obsticles and do sick tricks and stuff. That's why Rush games and boost trilogy are so successful.

2 hours ago, Meteo Xavier said:

I blame the latent furry fetishism our society is still only yet shedding light on.

Furry fandom is pretty isolated from Sonic. Star Fox is the franchise that they lust over too so even Nintendo isn't save. But it didn't affect Nintendo.

2 hours ago, Meteo Xavier said:

Still doesn't answer for me why this game series is so disproportionately significant when it seems like there's only 4 games plus Sonic Mania that the fandumb can even remotely agree on they actually liked.

Actually, 2. Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles are the same game and nowadays people think that STH is "meh." Also, people don't like Sonic CD anymore. The fandom gets more and more divided with every year.

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2 hours ago, Meteo Xavier said:

as many would incorrect to assume gameplay and music are very distinct things that could have nothing to do with each other, but in fact they are very subtly intertwined and required for the "experience" that gamers continue to dive in for.

I would say that really depends on the game.

Yeah, this might be a can of worms, but whatever:

IMO, 90% of video game soundtracks are not as inseparable from the pictures in the way that movie scores are.

That's because music in games often serves a different purpose: To signal something to the player or background beats. The melody of Green Hill Zone pretty much lets you know you're playing Sonic at this point, those blaring trumpets in Zelda let you know you found a new item, Guile's theme is just really catchy and you know it's his stage, the music in Castlevania is just really badass and fits the gothic theme.

But in all of these cases, the composers could've just as easily come up with something completely different that would "vibe" with the game just the same. You could literally swap the soundtracks from the original NES Castlevania out with the Rondo of Blood OST or even that hard rock album that Naoto Shibata put out in the mid 90s and especially for someone who didn't play the games and has no nostalgia for the soundtracks, I guarantee you the substituted soundtrack would be completely appropriate.

In film and cinematic video games, the score is very much emotional support to the picture. The perfect score can lift a scene to such a level that you just can't imagine it being any other way. The opposite is also true in that a bad score can utterly ruin it.

and Star Wars is a perfect example. I STILL get chills every time I see the binary sunset scene in A New Hope with the force theme, with that particular orchestration, rising up in exactly that moment. 

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11 hours ago, AngelCityOutlaw said:

IMO, 90% of video game soundtracks are not as inseparable from the pictures in the way that movie scores are.

I was actually talking more about how those things come together for the gamer after the game is already released, not before during the planning and development stages. My question would remain whether the Sonic games we're debating here used pop-punk, post-punk, pre-punk, hardcore punk, hardcore funk, punk-funk, crunk, EDM, IDM, EBM, EGM, Death Metal, Meth Metal, Shoegaze, Purple Haze, prog rock, Prague rock, ambient, psybient, psy-punk, psy-crunk, hip-hop, trip-hop, rap, crap, trap or Janet Jackson.

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On 09.04.2018 at 11:31 PM, AngelCityOutlaw said:

No you don't lol

City Escape is played at 130 BPM double-time. That is the equivalent of 8th notes at 260 BPM. If you don't believe me, put a metronome over it at 130 and then at 260. 

Okay, I reconsidered my ideals. 130 bpm really is too slow for that song. 260 bpm fits it more nicely. And I really didn't measure BPM correctly. I was completely wrong. Maybe I was confused by such a big number. That's why I assumed it was incorrect. That's pretty huge. The speed metal territory. Pop punk rarely goes this fast.

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This... well, this got a bit out of hand. We've had crazy arguments over the quality of Crush 40's music, a complete rejection of the idea that Sonic was ever worth anyone's time, and some hate directed at fans like me.

Let's all calm down, shall we?

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There's no point in a debate unless it gets out of hand. That's like going to a NASCAR race that won't have any potential for crashes - it's the whole reason for its existence! :P

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10 hours ago, OzGuy said:

This... well, this got a bit out of hand. We've had crazy arguments over the quality of Crush 40's music, a complete rejection of the idea that Sonic was ever worth anyone's time, and some hate directed at fans like me.

Let's all calm down, shall we?

Yeah, I understand. I didn't want to start it. Just wanted to list my favorite Sonic music genres. I don't enjoy this dispute either.

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