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XZero Newbie

XZero

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why would you be disappointed with what order (and what time frequency) games are released

that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard

I disagree; I believe it's perfectly rational and logical. Grouping all of these big releases into a remarkably small release window means that Nintendo's going to be putting out its major series games almost at one shot. It typically takes anywhere from 3-5 years for new Mario, Metroid, and Zelda games to release (main series releases as opposed to Mario Kart-type offshoots or portable titles). What's disappointing is simply that based on Nintendo's recent history, we could have some real garbage coming out next year. Or have you forgotten that the holiday titles of 2008 were Wii Music and Animal Crossing?

I'm glad to be getting games of this level of quality, but I recognize that the all-at-once approach means that Nintendo either has to reveal something big at E3 for next year, or we're going to be seeing a 2008 holiday season repeat (and yes, I know Smash Bros and Mario Kart were 2008 releases, but I think that's where everything sort of stopped for Nintendo that year).

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Toadofsky Newbie

Toadofsky

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I disagree; I believe it's perfectly rational and logical. Grouping all of these big releases into a remarkably small release window means that Nintendo's going to be putting out its major series games almost at one shot. It typically takes anywhere from 3-5 years for new Mario, Metroid, and Zelda games to release (main series releases as opposed to Mario Kart-type offshoots or portable titles). What's disappointing is simply that based on Nintendo's recent history, we could have some real garbage coming out next year. Or have you forgotten that the holiday titles of 2008 were Wii Music and Animal Crossing?

You're on the right track. But I think what's happening is this...

Core gaming (and I don't care what people think), is on the decline. All these games that are for the "hardcore" fans, are being put out quickly for one reason, they don't sell. Compare the first Mario Galaxy's sales with New Super Mario Bros. Wii, NSMBW outsold it in 45 days, Mario Galaxy only got 4 million in America after two years, the market is telling Nintendo something. What exactly? They like 2-D Mario better. And to be honest, I'd like to see more 2-D Mario with the production values of Galaxy put in!

Metroid: Other M, is starting to bother me. Some of the voice dialog I've read sounds mediocre. And this game is far from what Metroid is about. I don't care about Samus' past, I want to see more of her future, but they screwed that up with Fusion. Granted, I'm willing to give this game a chance, but I'm only renting it. I may only do the same with Galaxy 2.

I believe that Nintendo is getting a wake up call that they need to get back to what made games good, and why people play them. From what I've heard lately, it seems that they're going back and researching as to why the original games were so good in the first place. This isn't about the "casuals", this is about the values of games. The expanded audience as some have called it, don't care about every game having an epic sweeping storyline, or a bunch of voice acting, orchestral music score (though those things are nice). Gaming for them is about one thing, fun. And I'm increasingly beginning to feel that way...

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XZero Newbie

XZero

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You're on the right track. But I think what's happening is this...

Core gaming (and I don't care what people think), is on the decline. All these games that are for the "hardcore" fans, are being put out quickly for one reason, they don't sell. Compare the first Mario Galaxy's sales with New Super Mario Bros. Wii, NSMBW outsold it in 45 days, Mario Galaxy only got 4 million in America after two years, the market is telling Nintendo something. What exactly? They like 2-D Mario better. And to be honest, I'd like to see more 2-D Mario with the production values of Galaxy put in!

Metroid: Other M, is starting to bother me. Some of the voice dialog I've read sounds mediocre. And this game is far from what Metroid is about. I don't care about Samus' past, I want to see more of her future, but they screwed that up with Fusion. Granted, I'm willing to give this game a chance, but I'm only renting it. I may only do the same with Galaxy 2.

I believe that Nintendo is getting a wake up call that they need to get back to what made games good, and why people play them. From what I've heard lately, it seems that they're going back and researching as to why the original games were so good in the first place. This isn't about the "casuals", this is about the values of games. The expanded audience as some have called it, don't care about every game having an epic sweeping storyline, or a bunch of voice acting, orchestral music score (though those things are nice). Gaming for them is about one thing, fun. And I'm increasingly beginning to feel that way...

Definitely a valid point, and I will never disagree that gaming is solely about fun. Production values and everything that goes with them are nice additions for the hardcore, but without being able to say that you had fun playing a game, it's pointless.

I think there is another element to it, and it's really the logical conclusion of both of our arguments. I say that Nintendo's putting them out in too small a window, and you say that the direction that games tend to be going, at least based on sales figures, is away from ridiculously high production values and back to the core focus of being fun.

It seems to me that the risk out there is that Nintendo's gaming will put itself back in the 2002-03 rut. In August of 2002, Nintendo released Super Mario Sunshine, definitely not the best Mario game, but a good game nonetheless. In November, it released Metroid Prime. Finally, in March of 2003, Zelda released. It's almost the exact same overarching time period in terms of months that we will probably be seeing for the Mario, Metroid, and Zelda titles this year, except that now they all release in 2010 because there's a 3-month head start.

So what do they do next year? Well, what this means is that Nintendo, in 2011 and 2012 in particular, will have to put out more games that are just as fun as New Super Mario Bros. I personally leveled some criticism at NSMBW, not because it wasn't fun or anything like that, but because it had some obvious missing elements (if you can play 4-player, put better characters in, for example). But going back to what they did after Zelda came out in 2003 on the GCN, ... they didn't do much, besides hosting annual Mario Parties.

And this is where it all comes together. If they're kind of rushing their big titles out now because they know that there's no way any of them top New Super Mario Bros. Wii, then next year they basically have no choice but to release another game of NSMBW quality (whether it's a sequel or otherwise). Nintendo's track record on this sort of thing, unfortunately, is not too good. So if it's a return to fun games that's coming our way, I'm happy. I just don't want to see Wii Music 2 next year because we wasted all of the good games this year.

... actually, I don't want to see Wii Music 2 ever...

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Toadofsky Newbie

Toadofsky

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Definitely a valid point, and I will never disagree that gaming is solely about fun. Production values and everything that goes with them are nice additions for the hardcore, but without being able to say that you had fun playing a game, it's pointless.

You ever notice that, so many will go and swear up and down how great a game is, then they go and say how awful it was after replaying it. The same can be said about games that haven't even come out yet, or they haven't played yet. The hardcore are a small, easily manipulated audience, they don't matter anymore. If they were so large, then why is it that every time some "hardcore" title comes out, it doesn't stay on the top 10 in sales for more than a month or two? They're like the Sirens to the Gaming Company ships, leading them to the rocks that'll surely sink them. And the sad thing is, the Hardcore don't even realize what they're doing...

I think there is another element to it, and it's really the logical conclusion of both of our arguments. I say that Nintendo's putting them out in too small a window, and you say that the direction that games tend to be going, at least based on sales figures, is away from ridiculously high production values and back to the core focus of being fun.

I honestly feel that that's why game companies are in such a mess. They keep putting these "EPIC" games out over and over, and from the looks of it, they're not making back the invest they thought they would. Recently there was some remarks about Konami not wanting to reveal how much they spent on making MGS 4, honestly though, why does it matter if people knew how much they spent? The answer is obvious, they didn't make as much as they hoped. As far as the release window(s), it does seem troubling, but read on...

It seems to me that the risk out there is that Nintendo's gaming will put itself back in the 2002-03 rut. In August of 2002, Nintendo released Super Mario Sunshine, definitely not the best Mario game, but a good game nonetheless. In November, it released Metroid Prime. Finally, in March of 2003, Zelda released. It's almost the exact same overarching time period in terms of months that we will probably be seeing for the Mario, Metroid, and Zelda titles this year, except that now they all release in 2010 because there's a 3-month head start.

I honestly hope we don't have another rut like that. But I don't think that's going to be a problem. I think Nintendo sees that their focus needs to be shifted, and in order to do that successfully, they're gonna need to get these core games out as quickly as possible so they can get focused on either new games, or re-invigorating these tired franchises. And I think they know that the clock is ticking, so the games that are focused on entertaining ALL audiences need to be developed and released ASAP. Not too mention making sure that there's plenty of polish on them as well. Just wait until E3 this year, besides a "core" Zelda, I'm sure we'll see much more. In regards to Zelda, that is one franchise that needs to be shaken up or let loose for a few years, I've played enough revisions of Ocarina of Time, and I'm exhausted from them.

So what do they do next year? Well, what this means is that Nintendo, in 2011 and 2012 in particular, will have to put out more games that are just as fun as New Super Mario Bros. I personally leveled some criticism at NSMBW, not because it wasn't fun or anything like that, but because it had some obvious missing elements (if you can play 4-player, put better characters in, for example). But going back to what they did after Zelda came out in 2003 on the GCN, ... they didn't do much, besides hosting annual Mario Parties.

I can understand your criticism of NSMBW, and I understand what you're getting at, again, I think we need to wait until E3. Mario Party's not that bad, but we don't need a bajillion of them, that's for sure. I think the other companies that flooded garbage games out on the Wii successfully blotted out any chance of a new Mario Party game.

So if it's a return to fun games that's coming our way, I'm happy. I just don't want to see Wii Music 2 next year because we wasted all of the good games this year.

This is the kegger here... Nobody, almost nobody, understands what Nintendo was doing in that frame of time. They thought that UGC (User Generated Content), was going to be the way to go in game making, the future even. Wii Music for the expanded audience, Animal Crossing for the core Nintendo fans. Anyone remember Reggie talking about that? About UGC? I do. Heck, Wario Ware DIY is coming soon, and judging from Flip Note Studio's reception, I wouldn't count on that game doing so well (That doesn't mean it wasn't made well, so don't misinterpret it). Nintendo couldn't have been more wrong. There is little to no market in those games. You'll find very few people who are interested in paying 50 bucks for a "build your own" game. It's lazy, and stupid. I think they saw a dead end coming (thus the dip in Wii console sales) when they took that route, and thankfully made a complete U-Turn. If Nintendo is going to stick with Blue Ocean Strategy, then they need to ignore the Hardcore's sometimes, no, mostly illogical opinions on what makes a good game, and just listen to the customer, both core, and expanded audience. And that even means not listening to Game "Journalists".

Game Journalists have never even bothered to study the Blue Ocean strategy or to understand it, heck, they don't even do their job, they take everything at face value and listen to "analysts" like Michael Pachter (who's a complete joke), instead of doing their real job: research, and investigating. But since they're too busy getting their all expense paid hotel trips to "review" a game, or getting paid out to give high marks or write glowing previews of an upcoming game, and let alone being addicted to video games, I don't think I'll ever trust them.

But I'm getting WAAAAAAAAAAAY off topic with that....

Sorry for the long post...

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Malaki-LEGEND.sys Newbie

Malaki-LEGEND.sys

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The best thing I can think of is not to play SSBB online at all, especially if you're trying to be competitive. The netcode for the game is just astoundingly bad, although if you still want to give it a go, you should get away from the WiFi and get a wired LAN adapter for the Wii.

Opening and forwarding some ports on your router might help a bit, but probably not enough for what you want.

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Red Shadow Apprentice

Red Shadow

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Metroid: Other M, is starting to bother me. Some of the voice dialog I've read sounds mediocre. And this game is far from what Metroid is about. I don't care about Samus' past, I want to see more of her future, but they screwed that up with Fusion. Granted, I'm willing to give this game a chance, but I'm only renting it. I may only do the same with Galaxy 2.

who cares about story

if you have played pokemon or recent nintendo or sega anything why do you care about story

ignore it and play the game and if that part sucks then there is a problem

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Toadofsky Newbie

Toadofsky

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who cares about story

if you have played pokemon or recent nintendo or sega anything why do you care about story

ignore it and play the game and if that part sucks then there is a problem

I know this going to sound like I'm backpedaling here, but really I don't care about story. I guess I feel like there's too much focus on narrative (and I never felt metroid was ever about story) and not much on the actual gameplay, that's all. Sorry to sound like I take it so seriously, I don't. I have yet to play this game anyways, so I'm willing to give it a shot. I'm just skeptical about it that's all. :wink:

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Thalzon Newbie

Thalzon

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So I finally picked up Endless Ocean 2, and it's still got the same awesome gameplay as before. In addition, there's now a Pulsar, a gun that can cure fishy illnesses and subdue violent sharks and the like. The goal of this is to make money to buy lots of different-coloured gear. It's a nice step up from receiving it at random for favours in the first game.

I've only been exploring the the location so far, though. I want to be thorough, since they give you lots to do early-on. The new air timer kinda blows, though. In the first game, there was an air timer, but it lasted so long as to not matter at all. This time around, the air timer is much shorter, but gets longer the more diving you do. It clocks in at around 8 minutes in shallow water, but even less in deeper water.

Lots of fun, feels fresh, and totally non-violent. Easily my favourite new series of this console generation.

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Thalzon Newbie

Thalzon

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I had my first encounter with actual enemy fishies. First off, it was a SWARM of great white sharks. At least 6 or 7, with more in the general vicinity. They are MEAN. They all attack at once, which makes neutralizing them difficult. Funny enough, they open their jaws, move in.... and then whip around to whap you with their tail. And all that does is take away a bit of your air meter. The problem is that there's lots, and no lock-on feature for the healing gun (which calms violent species and cures sick species). Thus it's very easy to get surrounded and disoriented. And I'm not sure how long they stay calm for, because I was forced to escape.

Woo, exciting. Yeah. It really is for me because I generally fear videogame water (real water, not so much).

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Toadofsky Newbie

Toadofsky

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Well, it looks like the developers got to put their "story" into the game, and it looks like they're trying hard to get ones who only like 2-D Mario, to play this new Mario Galaxy game.

Honestly, this is pissing me off, I think they should have put this much effort into making a 4 player co-op 2-D game. Not that I didn't like NSMB Wii, I loved it (I even made an alternate box art for it on my Deviantart page).

I honestly wonder if this game is going to sell very well, couple the fact that from how well NSMB Wii did (people like 2-D Mario better), and the fact they're putting a DVD in to show HOW TO PLAY THE GAME, it looks like they're trying to recoup any potential loss from the game.

Yeah, I'm looking WAAY too far into this, and I pre-ordered it too... :roll:

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Toadofsky Newbie

Toadofsky

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http://www.destructoid.com/mario-galaxy-2-getting-tutorial-dvd-that-won-t-run-on-wii-172805.phtml

If that doesn't show you how much they want this game to sell well, I don't know what will. It's not like the Hardcore are going to keep this game on the top 20 for as long as a large amount of people have with New Super Mario Bros. on the DS and Wii have.

Other than that, I'd like to play it, I'm just not feeling like it's going to be a game that I'll keep after I've completed it. Heck, I traded Mario Galaxy, AND Brawl, I was done with them.

Maybe I'm growing out of games, or I'm getting old... 8O

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Thalzon Newbie

Thalzon

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If we don't get some announcement this year, we certainly will next year. Either that, or Nintendo is planning to keep the Wii around as long as the PS3 and 360 are. The system still sells quite well and almost every title Nintendo releases easily sells in the millions.

It is pretty amazing, though... N64 and GameCube had one "real" Mario game each. The Wii has three in comparison, and is only around 4 years old. Nintendo could likely milk the "galaxy" angle once more before people start complaining the idea is stale.

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