*NO* Chrono Trigger "When the Walls of Time Fell..."

[Emunator]

Contact Information
Username: HarlemHeat360
UserID:37144
Website: https://www.youtube.com/user/HarlemHeat360
 

Submission Information

Arrangement Game: Chrono Trigger
Name of Arrangement: When the Walls of Time Fell...

Song Being Arranged: Corridors of Time

 

Comments:
"When the walls came tumbling down, we danced until the End of Time"

This song has taken me places mentally--some healthy, some not so. Those places however were worth going and the end product is as you see (or hear lol) with this piece. The development went from this atmospheric piece, to a sort of cry to the universe, and finally somewhat of a...dance. I'm not sure how this all happened but the dramatic development certainly coincided with the dynamic swings in my head. Through all of it though, two concepts always rang true. The walls came tumbling down and time as we knew it ended.

In more concrete terms we see this as the original motif plays in the beginning with energy but mostly untouched. Then the beginning of the end starts as something begins to surge in the bass line, eventually blasting through into the second part of the song. The walls, Zeal, begin to crumble and a dance signaling the end begins. The guitar and the vocals are singing to you, the beat begins to take form, and finally...finally one last push. One more surge of energy and...

the walls come apart and the image of the last of Zeal takes hold. There is something beautiful and amazing about it yet equally sad and unsure. I think as the song ends that really starts to settle in and that image of time beginning to end takes hold.

That's the art aspect of it anyway haha. I think in terms of composition, I found it really hard to find a good balance beteween adding intensity to this piece while still keeping it atmospheric. I hope though that the balance found its way and people enjoy the final product. Maybe it was too much in terms of differing from the original. I tried to stay honest to it but at the same time I wanted to bring something new and something that was me. Please enjoy my take on Corridors of Time, "When the Walls of Time Fell..."

 

Source: 

 

 

Edited March 31, 2022 by Liontamer
closed decision

[Emunator]

Just like your first submission, this starts off with some incredibly gorgeous sound design! The plucked mallets, vocal samples, and various other sounds are truly gorgeous! The Corridors of Time melody and arpeggio is consistently present, but it took me a few listens to really appreciate how you introduced so many of your own melodic ideas without losing sight of the original. I have no complaints at all about the overall structure of the arrangement whatsoever, I'm really in love with the core of this track.

Where I think this track falls short is the technical execution of several areas. Starting off, the transition around the 1:27 mark feels like it should hit with a huge impact and blow the track wide open, but you fell into the trap of mixing your transition sfx way too loudly. I know, I catch myself doing it all the time with these cinematic sweeper effects, but you would benefit from bringing those fills down in volume and selectively EQing the parts of that fill that you really want to be most present, so it lets the rest of your song breathe. Right now, the sweeper has such a long tail on the back end, and it's mixed so loudly, that it absolutely crushes the dynamics of every other instrument. The same thing happens at 2:22, as well. I promise if you resolve this, your transitions will have way more impact.

That leads me to my next point - there is a noticeable lack of bass frequencies anywhere in the song except for those two transitions, which tells me that there's baked-in sub bass frequencies in those sweepers but you've neglected that area of the frequency spectrum everywhere else. Whether it's a sampled bass instrument or an electronic sub bass, or picking a new kick drum sample with more low-end punch, there needs to be something in the 20-200hz range. You can audibly hear a difference in how full your track sounds in the very first few seconds compared to the section that follows after. You can really see this in action when you analyze the spectrum in a free plugin like SPAN - there's a steep dropoff right around 200hz:

I also want to call attention to the sequencing and tonality of some of your sampled instruments, namely the guitar and piano. The reverb on the guitar sounds too distant, even for an ambient track - it doesn't exist in the same space as any of your other leads. The tone of the guitar amp is not bad, but it does feel rather thin compared to how lush everything else is. The piano in the outro is the other problem area that I picked up on, both in terms of sequencing, which is very aggressive and lacking velocity dynamics, and tone, which has a tinny quality. I'd consider swapping that for another sample with a more well-rounded frequency balance, and easing up on the velocities, or if you're open to it, finding a live guitarist to collaborate with!

I can't stress enough how much I love the arrangement and adaptation of Corridors of Time here. Conceptually, you achieved everything you set out to accomplish as written in your submission letter. However, the imbalanced mixing and inconsistent sample/sequencing quality on certain instruments are dragging this down and need to be addressed. This is an incredible song and it would be an absolute shame to not polish up and resubmit, so if you're struggling with this, reach out to me directly and we can work through this one-on-one as long as it takes to get it right!  

NO (resubmit!)

[prophetik music]

this is a really interesting concept! there's a lot of great stuff going on here. the initial presentation of the arpeggio is just gorgeous. that initial percussion loop - and it is a loop, it's unchanged for >1 minute - is really disappointing because there's so much interesting stuff happening elsewhere, and it just doesn't sound good. same with the sweeper transition, as emu said it's just too loud. the lack of compression overall is notable here too, as it just feels quiet.

the track picks up a lot at 1:30 and it's still great in terms of ideas and poor in terms of mastering. at this point i feel like i'm repeating myself, but it still has no bass, the drums are still very loop-oriented (although there's some more work here to mix it up), and it just feels like it's not done. there's a big string section that comes in and does some melodic tutti stuff, and then it starts to fade down. the piano work feels very heavy with how hard the articulation is - i don't know if that's the intention but it's pretty strong and i don't feel like it fits the end of a track as well.

there's the bones of a great track here. a bass instrument and some better drum samples (and drum writing) will make a huge difference. Right now it's missing too much.

 

 

NO

[MindWanderer]

I'm gonna disagree with my peers here.

It's true that there's very little bass presence here, but there isn't zero.  The transitional sweeps that Emu hated so much have plenty of bass presence, used for emphasis.  I don't think it's too loud at all, and I definitely don't think the arrangement on the whole is too quiet by any stretch of the imagination.  The arrangement on the whole is meant to be light and ethereal, and having rumbly bass throughout that would defeat the purpose. 

The samples, while imperfect, are still pretty darn good.  If the piano were solo, or even the lead, for more than the last 4 seconds, I might have more of a beef with it, but as it is it's perfectly acceptable IMO.  The drums seem fine to me as well; they're on autopilot for long periods, but not that long, and the sample quality seems well above our bar to me.

I've been listening to this for a week trying to figure out why this got two NO's, and I'm just not seeing it.  It's an elaborate and creative if short arrangement, with great sound design and an evocative soundscape.  Its few flaws are minor and easily forgivable, by me at least.

YES

[Sir_NutS]

At first I was ok with the lack of bass, not every song needs to be filling the whole sound spectrum, but as time went on it did feel like something was just lacking, some low notes to carry the progression at least, but the lack of lows leaves some sections such as 1:38-2:22 feeling incomplete.

I love your transitions, and the ambiance created here.  I think the various elements mesh very well, including the electric guitar.  I also think you did a good job with the arrangement and you made this arrangement yours.  I don't have complains about the sample quality, it's sufficient and in some spots, pretty damn good.  The drum mixing could use some work blending in better with everything else.

So the dealbreaker here is the lack of lows which in turns makes large sections feel lacking or incomplete.  I am not sure it warrants rejection, and I'm right in the middle on this.  I want to go with a borderline YES because I don't feel ok with rejecting this on a choice that seems to be stylistic, and I think it deserves to be looked into further.  I will be monitoring this thread because I am also open to having my mind changed on this one.

YES (Borderline)

Edited March 12, 2022 by Sir_NutS

[Liontamer]

Definitely digging and the vox and other instrumentation to start. The sampled electric guitar from :25-:51 sounds pretty fake, but it's initially mixed in a way to mitigate (albeit not mask) the realism issues; less so from 1:27-on; the same exact issues are still there, but once the Zeal melody is dropped out, it's hard not to focus more closely on the guitar and be as forgiving about the robotic tone & sound on the second dose.

About 1 minute in, the core beat felt repetitive, but we had some textural changes at 1:22. A-ha, at 1:25, I immediately hear how this started getting NO votes. The splashy drums and overall drumkit sound don't fit this new age-y soundscape, IMO.

Weird, fake, behind-the-beat, robotic-sounding, exposed string samples introduced at 2:21; it joins in at a super-blaring volume that also didn't make sense. The strings sustains are probably the worst offender production-wise. Yeah, there's no synergy with this instrumentation beyond the first minute. For the final minute in particular, there's not enough care put into whether the textures sound cohesive, and there's nothing to melodically focus on, at least until 3:09, though the guitar also quickly veers into noodling/comping territory. The piano at 3:09 also sounds very fake; another instance where it sounded complementary in the background (from 2:29-3:09), but then was later more exposed as mechanical (3:09-end) and came off much worse.

From 1:25-on, the Zeal theme's also very deemphasized here; that's not inherently a problem, but there's also no melodic direction for most of the rest of the piece. It may be too subjective, so take it or leave it, but consider making the Zeal line more audible for brief moments and/or varying the instrumentation of it in places to ground the arrangement and give the track more direction & dynamic contrast.

IMO, you need to either have richer, more realistic sounds for the guitar, bowed strings, and piano OR mask/obscure the issues better when they're isolated or used more in the foreground. Then it's a matter of making sure all of the instrumentation clicks together with the proper tone and balance for everything, which is more difficult, but worth the effort. This has some YESs, but I'mma firmly be right here in the NO (resubmit) column, and it's not a close call for me. There's so much good energy in the arrangement, you're going to think I hate it due to the criticisms. This has so much potential, but the execution's very messy at the moment. C'mon, Harlem, let's see what more you can do with it!

[DarkSim]

So much potential in this one, but you've gotta bring that guitarist in from the other room! The first minute and 20 seconds of this sound great, but I think you've possibly fallen into a trap with your reverb. The airy, ethereal atmosphere in the beginning is all well and good, but once things pick up after the build at 1:25, there needs to be more focus on the core instruments. It's a good idea to use similar reverb on instruments to give them a cohesion, however you've got to recognise when to dial back the wetness knob. The vocal pad sounds too prominent (particularly around 2:40), the drums too splashy with no bass in the kick, and that poor guitarist is jamming away in the other room. The drum fill at 1:25 also didn't sound very natural and broke the flow at that point, rather than seamlessly introducing itself. The transition at 2:22 needs more attention to mixing balance as well.

Emunator has provided some excellent feedback on how to remedy these issues - his style makes great use of atmosphere and space, so I would suggest giving some of his stuff a listen, and taking that advice on board. The bulk of the work I would say is done, it just boils down to some mixing adjustments, and if you want to revisit some of the drum samples and fills, that wouldn't go amiss either. Hope to hear this one again!

NO (resubmit)

[Chimpazilla]

Truly awesome sound and writing ideas here, so much potential, but I'm afraid I'm on the side of the NOs here.  Nearly half the arrangement is intro.  At 1:30 I'm expecting a drop, following the sweep, but the energy remains the same as in the intro even with a new drum groove and guitar lead added.  The lack of bass takes all the energy out of that section. If that first section had some real bass in it, it would sound more like a drop.  As it stands, what should be a drop sounds almost like it could be an outro.  At 2:22, there is some real bass present but only until 2:27 when it fades away again.  Five seconds of bass!  The arrangement plods along in first gear until the outro which arrives way too soon.  This arrangement has no structure in my opinion, it's half intro and the rest is rambly.  In the outro, that dance piano sounds very weak too.  The lack of bass is a dealbreaker by itself, for me, unfortunately.  I love the ideas you're working with here but this arrangement and the mixing need work.

NO (resubmit)