suzumebachi Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 I can't begin to imagine the horrors of attempting to dual boot Linux and Vista. Anyways, I'm not sure about the ASIO issues being true, but the fact that Vista even has the power to disable your audio card at a whim is enough to keep me from using it. Ever. Not in my life. Even if that means I'm stuck with games older than 2007 for the rest of eternity. It's just not worth it. And I surely can't be the only person that thinks this way. If I am forced to upgrade to another OS somewhere down the road, as sure as fire rains down in hell it will NOT be VISTA. We need to take action and let Microsoft know that they are on a one way path to their own demise. The easiest way to do this, is to not participate in their schemes. If nobody buys it, maybe they'll figure it out. Unfortunately the public is horribly uneducated about the issues surrounding Vista and DRM, and will probably buy it out of ignorance anyways, only to find out later down the road the horrors that await for them. By then it will be too late. Microsoft will have made their money, and the people will be under their control. Someone should start a viral marketing campaign to educate the masses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citan Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 Even if that means I'm stuck with games older than 2007 for the rest of eternity. There's nothing wrong with that. I can't get enough of Red Alert 2: Yuri's Revenge on the Command and Conquer: The First Decade collection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emura Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 QFMFE.http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html Please, PLEASE someone call bullshit on that one. I really don't want that to be true. Fuck that, I'm calling bullshit on this ENTIRE THREAD. All this Windows Vista FUD has gotten completely out of hand, and that Peter Gutmann tool isn't helping any. Let me give you all the lowdown on how DRM works: Windows Vista includes DRM technology for the playback of high definition video content from HD DVD and Blu Ray discs. HD DVD and Blu Ray make use of a technology called High-Bandwidth Digital Content Protection (HDCP). The HDCP protocol specifies that any piece of hardware used in the video decoding process must conform to the HDCP specification, and include an onboard HDCP chip to decode the high definition data. In a home theatre, this means your disc reader and TV must be HDCP compatible, and contain HDCP chips. In a computer, the disc drive, operating system, video card, and monitor all must be HDCP compatible. If Microsoft did not include HDCP DRM into Vista, it would be (theoretically*) impossible to watch Blu Ray and HD DVD discs in your computer. *I say theoretically since it's quite possible HDCP encryption will be cracked in the future. Part of the HDCP specification allows for something called "key revocation," which would in effect cause an HDCP device to no longer decode HDCP protected video. All manufactures of HDCP decoders are issued a HDCP keys for them to use in the decryption process. If it is found that one company is intentionally violating the HDCP specification and producing disc readers for the purposes of illegally copying HDCP protected content, disc makers can include a deactivation code on their Blu Ray or HD DVD disc which, when played in an unauthorized player, will prevent that player from being able to play HDCP protected content in the future. While one could argue that this technology could be used to destroy lawfully, spec abiding disc players, that theory doesn't hold much weight. In theory, a car mechanic could rip out your car's brakes and say "Ha ha, have fun driving home now, sucker!" Or, I could distribute a game CD with a computer virus that wipes your hard drive the next time you restart it. Obviously, neither of those cases are logcial. Movie studios are not going to distribute a disc that, on a whim, destroys your $1000 Blu Ray drive. HDCP DRM included in Windows Vista is only for the protection of high definition video content from HD DVD and Blu Ray discs. It does not affect your sound card, it does not affect your speakers, and it does not affect any of the files on your computer. That means your 10345 hours of illegal music and videos will always continue to play, and "Windows" will not disable your sound card if it suddenly feels like it. Furthermore, Mac OS 10.5 will include all the same DRM software abilities as Windows Vista, so if you are very opposed to being able to watch HDCP protected content on your PC, you had better not upgrade your OS. Or just use Linux. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suzumebachi Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 HDCP DRM included in Windows Vista is only for the protection of high definition video content from HD DVD and Blu Ray discs. It does not affect your sound card, it does not affect your speakers [...] and "Windows" will not disable your sound card if it suddenly feels like it. Incorrect. Vista will disable all "unsecure" outputs when playing back "premium content." Not just video, but audio as well. S/PDIF falls under this category, as it is completely unsecure. ...It does not affect any of the files on your computer. That means your 10345 hours of illegal music and videos will always continue to play... You're right. HDCP DRM does not affect music playback (unless it happens to be "premium content" such as SACDs etc but that's besides the point). Instead, that falls under the ever expanding category of Windows Media DRM. PS: Files encoded with the public distributions of WMP v9 or later are by default limited by DRM to only be played back on the system they were created on. Not to mention the horrors of WME. So much for file sharing, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoke Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 PS: Files encoded with the public distributions of WMP v9 or later are by default limited by DRM to only be played back on the system they were created on. Not to mention the horrors of WME. So much for file sharing, eh? What, people actually encode with WMP9? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Pylon Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 Update: all my music still works fine. All 7 gigs of it <3 Also, spare flash drives can be mounted as extra RAM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Souliarc Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 Also, spare flash drives can be mounted as extra RAM. That's freaking cool. I'll still probably wait 6 months to a year before I upgrade. If I do. In the grand scheme of things, I would MUCH rather have a Mac, but the price/performance ratio just turns me off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmr Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 You're right. HDCP DRM does not affect music playback (unless it happens to be "premium content" such as SACDs etc but that's besides the point). Instead, that falls under the ever expanding category of Windows Media DRM.You can play SACDs on a PC? That's news to me.EDIT: Just to clarify: I know you can play hybrid SACDs in a regular CD rom drive (along with pretty much any CD player), but as far as I know, the DSD layer can only be played in standalone SACD (or SACD/DVD) players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G_D Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 Apparently Vista isn't a better gaming platform yet. (though given the hardware requirements I'd think it to be rather obvious) From the article: So, I've said it before and will say it again. Vista is a good operating system... but it's -far- from being even 90% reliable. When going from an XP machine to Vista, it feels like you just went from a Toyota Celica to a Ferrari 599 GTB Fiorano. The only problem is, that it feels like your new Ferrari borrowed your Celicas engine. We'll let the numbers speak for themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Pylon Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 Yeah, it's pretty much no secret that games run worse in Vista, at least at the moment. I want to see how everything runs when non-beta ATI drivers come out. Edit: Oh snapdragons, they're out today! GJGJGJGJGJGJ Also, for a bit of experimentation, I'm installing Home Basic on my laptop. Celeron M 1.4ghz, 512 RAM, intel integrated shitgrafx, and 40-gig hard drive. It needed a format anyway, so we'll see how well it runs. Plus, I'd really like to use the Flash Drive => RAM feature on it. I'll let you know how that turns out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgeCrusher Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 I truely love this panic and mudslinging. Makes it all worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G_D Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 Mudslinging? All I'm doing is suggest that people don't rush out to get Vista. There is no need, and it is NEVER a good idea to get the first release of a new Windows version. Wait until the kinks are worked out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hector Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 Long live XP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Pylon Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 Okay, looks like the OpenGL troubles are mostly over, at least on the ATI end. I just tried a couple games, and the only one I had trouble with was ePSXe with the OGL2 plugin. Hooray new drivers etc. Also, that flash drive RAM trick causes all kinds of lag in games, so that's pretty much a no go. It's good for my laptop, though, and great if you don't do any heavy gaming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emura Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 Okay, looks like the OpenGL troubles are mostly over, at least on the ATI end. I just tried a couple games, and the only one I had trouble with was ePSXe with the OGL2 plugin. Hooray new drivers etc.Also, that flash drive RAM trick causes all kinds of lag in games, so that's pretty much a no go. It's good for my laptop, though, and great if you don't do any heavy gaming. Good to know there's some more stable drivers out now! Keep up the awesome posts! Just FYI though, the flash drive isn't actually used as RAM since the USB bus (lol acronym redundancy) is far to slow for that sort of thing. It speeds up your computer by giving the OS a place to store program data in an area that can be read faster than from the hard drive, for use with Windows Superfetch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Pylon Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 Good to know there's some more stable drivers out now! Keep up the awesome posts! Cool, glad the posts are appreciated. It seems that the Nvidia drivers haven't been updated since the fifth, so Nvidia users may still have major OpenGL problems. Just FYI though, the flash drive isn't actually used as RAM since the USB bus (lol acronym redundancy) is far to slow for that sort of thing. It speeds up your computer by giving the OS a place to store program data in an area that can be read faster than from the hard drive, for use with Windows Superfetch. Yeah, I figured it was more like a faster form of virtual memory than actual RAM. I was just using a term that one of the books I looked at yesterday used. Still, this trick is working pretty well with my lappy, which I don't game very much on (and if I do, it's usually old stuff anyway). I just won't have much use for it on my desktop. In fact, the book I read pretty much stated that systems with 1 gig of ram or more won't benefit from this enhancement. Edit: Looks like the AC'97 drivers have been updated, but they're still unstable for me. Like before, everything works but I keep getting RunDLL32 error messages whenever I adjust the sound settings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Souliarc Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 In fact, the book I read pretty much stated that systems with 1 gig of ram or more won't benefit from this enhancement. That freaking sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkwing Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 i can get Windows Vista Business...for free. With CD Key. 100% legal. MSDN Alliance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffeeholic Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 i can get Windows Vista Business...for free. With CD Key. 100% legal. MSDN Alliance. Thanks for sharing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkwing Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 Thanks for sharing. no problem...dick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suzumebachi Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 Good to know there's some more stable drivers out now! Keep up the awesome posts! Cool, glad the posts are appreciated. Where I'm from, we call this a circlejerk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Pylon Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 Where I'm from, we call this a circlejerk. Cool, glad the posts are appreciated. Edit: Oh, since you brought it up earlier: I can't begin to imagine the horrors of attempting to dual boot Linux and Vista. I don't see where there would be any extra problems. Vista does install a bootloader that will allow you to choose which OS to boot (like XP does, I think), but otherwise I don't see where there would be any extra problems. At least, any more than there would be in XP. There, I addressed one of your concerns. Plz to be putting Mr. Madface away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primetime Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 Vista is an OSX knockoff with extra DRM. Great, just what I wanted, all my memory taken up monitoring my actions to make sure I'm not doing anything illegal. Shouldn’t all this memory be put to better use, to monitor things like personal information, ss#, credit card #s to make sure they are not obtained by a hacker etc. I dual boot and I'll stick with XP for my illegal endeavors. I will probably upgrade to Leopard when the final release comes available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merk Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 Vista is an OSX knockoff with extra DRM...I will probably upgrade to Leopard when the final release comes available. Right, because I'm sure Leopard won't have DRM/HDCP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xelebes Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 Vista is an OSX knockoff with extra DRM. Great, just what I wanted, all my memory taken up monitoring my actions to make sure I'm not doing anything illegal. Shouldn’t all this memory be put to better use, to monitor things like personal information, ss#, credit card #s to make sure they are not obtained by a hacker etc. I dual boot and I'll stick with XP for my illegal endeavors. I will probably upgrade to Leopard when the final release comes available. The "eating of the ram" might not be an issue when 4-8 GB of RAM becomes standard in computers to come. Right now the standard computer today comes out with 1-2 GB of RAM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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