The 2D Fighter Thread

[ILLiterate]

Well, I guess I'm biased because I hate Japanese style controllers. The ball sticks are a pain to use and the buttons feel so cheap. But yeah, if you do like the Japanese style controllers go crazy with the Sanwa stuff. I just don't like it personally.

I personally enjoy the sticks when the moment arises. Some games need them PRECISION movements, like 3s and some crazy stuff in CvS2, like PTF, so you come to appreciate it. The buttons are VERY low to the ground and react quickly, which I don't know why it's cheap, unless your opponent doesn't have it. Then again, you're playing competitively so you've got to give yourself what edge you can

Having said this, I own a MAS stick, with HAPP parts. It's mostly about what you like and getting used to some new things like competition buttons without the curves going inside. If you play long enough on it, you'll get good on it

While on the subject, I do heavily recommend all people who are seriously going to get into 2D fighting to take a try at playing with sticks, and getting your own stick. It's simply better to use sticks than pads. I started out the other way around, but the more I play with mine, the more and more I enjoy it until I really don't want to play with pads unless absolutely necessary. Just do some research or ask here about what you should get, so you don't get ripped off

[Citris]

Yeah, that's all fine and good for those who like to search for competition and enter in tourneys and get into a game; however, sometimes one just wants to play a fighting game and be competent enough to understand it and beat the computer. I mean, this may sound shallow, but I mostly bought guilty gear for the eye-candy. I appreciate people who take the time to get really good at fighting games, but I don't see why they should be the only ones enjoying them. I mean, maybe it is unrealistic, but why can't developers make good ai instead of relying on silly gimmicks and predictable patterns? (ie. Super Turbo's arcade mode)

The unfortunate thing is most developers for 2d Fighting games still rely on that age old crutch of "well this game was developed with high level comptetitive play in mind." So, does that mean that "noobs" can't have fun playing it and or learn how to play by themselves? If not, then that's a fault in the game.

Virtua Fighter 4 is a good example of ample effort to make a fighting game fun with or without human opponents. It has kumite, which is difficult without being ridiculous, a REAL tutorial mode and- if you feel like getting beaten-up by Akira and co.- there is arcade. Tekken 5 DR (PSP) has the ability to download ghosts, like Sega was saying, and that is another ingenious way of creating a realistic experience for those who don't have any local competition.

I guess all that I'm saying is, why even put in a worthless arcade mode if a game is only ment to be played in versus?

This is where I am at the moment. One of the main reasons I love Guilty Gear so much is its style. Sure Superultramega Street Fighter Turbo 2 Gigaultimate Redux may be the most balanced fighters ever, but playing it is kind of, well, boring.

I'm still light years away from even beating even one person in a tournament. Right now I'm just trying to learn all the moves. It will be some time before I can start studying frame shots to time my combos perfectly.

[Drake5017]

Well, I guess I'm biased because I hate Japanese style controllers. The ball sticks are a pain to use and the buttons feel so cheap. But yeah, if you do like the Japanese style controllers go crazy with the Sanwa stuff. I just don't like it personally.

Yeah for some reason I really dont like joysticks very much myself. I prefer using Xbox s model controller. My favorite controller of last gen. Joysticks Im too clumsy with, PS2 d pad blows and gives my index fingers blisters, and the Gamecube control is decent but not the greatest (my hands are not ultra small but huge so that reasoning on why i like the gc controller wont work)

[Evilhead]

I personally enjoy the sticks when the moment arises. Some games need them PRECISION movements, like 3s and some crazy stuff in CvS2, like PTF, so you come to appreciate it. The buttons are VERY low to the ground and react quickly, which I don't know why it's cheap, unless your opponent doesn't have it. Then again, you're playing competitively so you've got to give yourself what edge you can

Having said this, I own a MAS stick, with HAPP parts. It's mostly about what you like and getting used to some new things like competition buttons without the curves going inside. If you play long enough on it, you'll get good on it

While on the subject, I do heavily recommend all people who are seriously going to get into 2D fighting to take a try at playing with sticks, and getting your own stick. It's simply better to use sticks than pads. I started out the other way around, but the more I play with mine, the more and more I enjoy it until I really don't want to play with pads unless absolutely necessary. Just do some research or ask here about what you should get, so you don't get ripped off

Ah, what I meant by feeling cheap was the quality of the buttons, not "cheap" in a game sense. The old American style buttons just feel nice to my fingers, while the Japanese style buttons just seem flimsy and low-quality to me. I know it's NOT the case, but I just like the feel of American buttons. Maybe it's just years of playing in American arcades; I love that feel. And as far as speed though, I don't really notice that much of a difference in practice. There's not a lot of parts of fighting games where you have the mash the buttons THAT fast aside from Chun-li's kick/Blanka's shock, etc, which I never use anyway. Yeah, I guess it might shave a few milliseconds off my reaction time, but I don't play competitively and I'd rather use a stick that feels nice to me.

As far as the stick goes, I can see why people like the Japanese sticks for tournies and whatnot but I'm just not that good with them. I guess if I practiced more with them I might come to prefer the Japanese ball stick, but right now the way I use a stick lends itself to a bat-style stick. I rest the stick in the area between my thumb and index finger, and roll the stick around using mostly the knuckle of my index finger and thumb. Just doesn't work on a Japanese stick, but there are parts of the bat stick that sucks. Mainly air dashing in Guilty Gear and other double tap moves like parrying and dashing. The Japanese stick definitely has a speed advantage there. But as far as pulling off a super move in KOF or whatnot, my accuracy is almost 100% with an American style stick, but it's like 80% on a Japanese stick. Which leads me to get my ass kicked even HARDER in Japanese arcades.

But yeah, I do take back what I said about buying only Happ. I forgot that Sanwa made the Japanese style parts. If you want to build a stick, get either Happ or Sanwa though. Basically my point was buy real arcade parts. Your personal preference will vary, but if you have some tools laying around you can build the best possible stick for about $40 or $50. Button and stick selection, button placement and box construction are all ways you can make that stick that much more perfect for you.

And for those of you who don't like sticks.... Just get a good one and practice with it. You'll be converted after a while. At first your game will suffer a bit but when you master it (after a few weeks) you'll be much better at 2D fighters than when you started. For 3D fighters I prefer a pad most of the time, although Tekken plays well with a stick and most 2.5D fighters like Project Justice seem to be made with sticks in mind.

[Drake5017]

if you guys wann see a pro 2 player diy stick checkout this metal slug one

http://www.ardnut.co.uk/mslug/

too cool

[Martin Penwald]

Heh, during my time abroad, I order a shitload of buttons, a couple of sticks and some other stuff from Sanwa for a friend of mine. He now uses the parts in his arcade cab, the Saturn Stick etc.

[dsx100]

Yeah, that's all fine and good for those who like to search for competition and enter in tourneys and get into a game; however, sometimes one just wants to play a fighting game and be competent enough to understand it and beat the computer. I mean, this may sound shallow, but I mostly bought guilty gear for the eye-candy. I appreciate people who take the time to get really good at fighting games, but I don't see why they should be the only ones enjoying them. I mean, maybe it is unrealistic, but why can't developers make good ai instead of relying on silly gimmicks and predictable patterns? (ie. Super Turbo's arcade mode)

The unfortunate thing is most developers for 2d Fighting games still rely on that age old crutch of "well this game was developed with high level comptetitive play in mind." So, does that mean that "noobs" can't have fun playing it and or learn how to play by themselves? If not, then that's a fault in the game.

Virtua Fighter 4 is a good example of ample effort to make a fighting game fun with or without human opponents. It has kumite, which is difficult without being ridiculous, a REAL tutorial mode and- if you feel like getting beaten-up by Akira and co.- there is arcade. Tekken 5 DR (PSP) has the ability to download ghosts, like Sega was saying, and that is another ingenious way of creating a realistic experience for those who don't have any local competition.

I guess all that I'm saying is, why even put in a worthless arcade mode if a game is only ment to be played in versus?

I completely agree. I have always thought fighters, especially 2D, have alienated the more casual gamers. That is why I personally think Fighting isn't as popular of a genre as it use to be. I can hardly get any of friends to play me seriously in a fighting game. They just don't understand them enough to want to play them. However I do think fighters can easily solve this problem buy making the games a little more user friendly.

Like you said Virtua Fighter 4 is a good example by offering a tutorial mode. Soul Calibur and Smash Bros. also does the same by offering a tutorial mode as well, but those games take it a step forward by offering easy to get into and use gameplay. Soul Calibur has always been known as button masher friendly game and that is why more casual gamers like it. It doesn't take alot of effort to play the game. I personally don't have a problem with this because the game offers balance in which a good player can easily beat a button masher. I am barely decent at the game and I never lose to a button masher. The game is easy to play but difficult to master and learn fully. The same is true for Smash Bros. except the for the button mashing part. Instead the game has very simple controls that anyone can easily learn. However, it is really hard to get very good at that game and some many other techniques come into play at high-level competition than what is shown in the tutorial.

If every fighting game could do this, I think the fighting genre could become more popular and enjoyable. But if things stayed same, It honestly wouldn't care much as I love fighters so much already.

[Evilhead]

if you guys wann see a pro 2 player diy stick checkout this metal slug one

http://www.ardnut.co.uk/mslug/

too cool

Awesome stick!! The actual construction of the stick isn't hard to do at all, but the awesome art sets it apart. Still, if you want to add art like that to your stick, all you have to do is find some image, photoshop it into a template that works for your stick and have it printed at a professional print shop. Some places might print directly onto plastic, but an easy way to do it is to print it on high quality paper and place it under a clear peice of plexiglass. This involves drilling more holes and making sure everything lines up right but is definitely doable. Almost makes me want to make another stick...

[Citris]

if you guys wann see a pro 2 player diy stick checkout this metal slug one

http://www.ardnut.co.uk/mslug/

too cool

Awesome. I really want to build my own stick. Too bad I live in an apartment and have no room for tools.

[ILLiterate]

I like the stick, except Fio, Tarma and the Solider look really weird to me

[The Instrument of GAWD]

From earlier about the cpu teaching you bad habits - For a short time I thought using K's One Inch Punch after knocking them down and just before they get up was useful...

[Citris]

YES!!!! My joystick and copy of Guilty Gear came in today! Too bad I have to work all day tomorrow. I can't wait to sink a few hours into it.

[ILLiterate]

What kind of joystick and what version of Guilty Gear may I ask?

[Citris]

What kind of joystick and what version of Guilty Gear may I ask?

Joystick and Guilty Gear XX: The Midnight Carnival #Reload, both for Xbox. And I just felt like typing out the full name since it is so ridiculously long.

[ILLiterate]

...ewwwwwwwwwwwww

Terrible looking joystick, I'd rather play with the pad. Then again it's Xbox so, no real quailty pre-made sticks

[Broken]

Well, by my standards it looks fine. Those standards being

A. it has at least 6 face buttons

B. it has an actual joystick (none of those silly thumb sticks)

And yours has an actual cord which I envy. You don't have to fiddle with batteries like I do. (A minor gripe, but a relavent one none the less.) More importantly you don't have to worry about lost signal like me.

"Haha, game ov....What, oh crap!!"

"Do your damn low punch rush, Rog!"

My stick has a comfy palm rest though, so ha.

[Citris]

Meh. If I were going for looks I'd build my own. It's actually better than I expected. It's nice and weighty, the buttons are spaced nicely, and it came with an interchangeable stick so I can figure out which shape I like best.

The only thing that's really weird to get used to is pressing the buttons. Their like...sniper buttons. They have a half press before the full contact press. I see the point, but it's just tough to get used to.

[Evilhead]

well, what do you expect from a $8 arcade stick? I got the Soul Calibur 2 stick for 10 bucks at some game shop and it worked well enough for a while except one of the buttons is stuck on turbo and the stick gets stuck sometimes. It's pretty much a POS, but for the price it's okay as a second player stick or something portable to carry around. Nice and compact, plus you can use it on PS2, Xbox, and GC.

[dsx100]

I have a little situation here and I kind of wanted some input from you guys.

Ok here it is:

I want to get and play a lot of old and fairly new SNK fighters that I have missed out on, mostly Garou: Mark of the Wolves, King of Fighters 98 and XI, and Neo Geo Battle Collesiem. I also want Namco X Capcom. I am torn between getting a dreamcast to play some of the games or just buying a Swap Magic disc and fliptop to play the imports on my PS2. They would both cost me about the same so I can't decide.

For the Dreamcast, I would get the system and buy games like MoW, Kof 98, SF:TS, SFA3, MvC2, CvS2, and Soul Calibur. The pros are I would have a Dreamcast with some pretty good fighting games that are not outside the US Region. Basically I won't have to import them plus I have heard nothing but good things about the Dreamcast as Fighter console. The Cons, I am buying a whole system for games I can get or already have on the PS2 with the exception of Soul Calibur. Plus if ever get a launch window PS3, I can still play most my old PS2 games, which I can't do with the Dreamcast.

For Importing, I can get all the dreamcast games I don't already have plus Neo Geo BC, KOF XI, and Namco X Capcom for PS2 which I already have.These are all imports however, which means they are pretty expensive games. I am also going to have to modify my PS2 no matter what. There is also the language barrier. Plus, this will add a lot of games to my already pretty big PS2 library. I just don't really want so many games for the PS2. To much of anything can be bad.

So what to you guys think, Dreamcast or Importing?

[Jimmy Jazz]

DREAMCAST. IN BIG FUCKING LETTERS.

Dreamcast is awesome like you would not believe. I just got Last Blade 2.

Fucking Last Blade 2! It's Ace!

[Drake5017]

Importing. I thought of the same thing too. I think my fliptop is coming in tomorrow and I purchased NGBC and GMOTW and they are wonderful to look at. KOF XI is fucking elite and you can also give Melty Blood and Guilty Gear Accent Core a try. I vouch for the import. Lets list em

Neo Geo Battle Coliseum

Garou Mark of the Wolves

King of Fighters XI

King of Fighters Orochi Collection

Darkstalkers Collection

Melty Blood Act Cadenza

Last Blade 1 & 2

just way better in my opinion.

[Evilhead]

I have a little situation here and I kind of wanted some input from you guys.

Ok here it is:

I want to get and play a lot of old and fairly new SNK fighters that I have missed out on, mostly Garou: Mark of the Wolves, King of Fighters 98 and XI, and Neo Geo Battle Collesiem. I also want Namco X Capcom. I am torn between getting a dreamcast to play some of the games or just buying a Swap Magic disc and fliptop to play the imports on my PS2. They would both cost me about the same so I can't decide.

For the Dreamcast, I would get the system and buy games like MoW, Kof 98, SF:TS, SFA3, MvC2, CvS2, and Soul Calibur. The pros are I would have a Dreamcast with some pretty good fighting games that are not outside the US Region. Basically I won't have to import them plus I have heard nothing but good things about the Dreamcast as Fighter console. The Cons, I am buying a whole system for games I can get or already have on the PS2 with the exception of Soul Calibur. Plus if ever get a launch window PS3, I can still play most my old PS2 games, which I can't do with the Dreamcast.

For Importing, I can get all the dreamcast games I don't already have plus Neo Geo BC, KOF XI, and Namco X Capcom for PS2 which I already have.These are all imports however, which means they are pretty expensive games. I am also going to have to modify my PS2 no matter what. There is also the language barrier. Plus, this will add a lot of games to my already pretty big PS2 library. I just don't really want so many games for the PS2. To much of anything can be bad.

So what to you guys think, Dreamcast or Importing?

First of all, if you buy a Dreamcast, it's very cheap. I wouldn't pay more than $25 or $30 for a Dreamcast. Plus I'm not sure about how you feel about copies, but you can just download and burn ISOs to CDRs and play them without modding your DC at all. Even if you are anti-piracy though, a Dreamcast is worth having, since it's really a great system.

As for importing on a PS2, modding the PS2 is painless and not expensive, but will cost you as much or more than buying a used Dreamcast. I'm not sure why you're against having a big PS2 library, but buying imports is pretty expensive since Japanese games are priced higher and I'm not sure how available used Japanese PS2 games are to you. So I would say get a Dreamcast? The PS2 port of SF3:TS is better, and KOFXI is apparently amazing, but NeoGeo BC isn't so hot and Namco X Capcom SUCKS. Don't even bother with it, seriously. I'm a huge fanboy for Capcom characters and I hated it. But then again, there are a lot of great import fighters for the PS2, and the language barrier is almost non-existent for fighting games. The only fighting games with language issues I can think of are games with mission modes like KOF Maximum Impact 2, Soul Calibur 2/3, Guilty Gear XX #reload etc, which already have English releases.

[dsx100]

Well right know I am leaning a little more towards importing, but I am still going to have to think about it some more. It sort of hard to decide.

[Deathtank]

Did somebody play Groove on Fight for the Saturn?

A fun game with 4-player cool gameplay (not like the #### of Guilty Gear Isuka)

And all KOF released (with a ram cart of course) in it are very good games to play.

Actually any 2-d fighter with the ram cart are good games.

[ILLiterate]

I have a little situation here and I kind of wanted some input from you guys.

Ok here it is:

I want to get and play a lot of old and fairly new SNK fighters that I have missed out on, mostly Garou: Mark of the Wolves, King of Fighters 98 and XI, and Neo Geo Battle Collesiem. I also want Namco X Capcom. I am torn between getting a dreamcast to play some of the games or just buying a Swap Magic disc and fliptop to play the imports on my PS2. They would both cost me about the same so I can't decide.

For the Dreamcast, I would get the system and buy games like MoW, Kof 98, SF:TS, SFA3, MvC2, CvS2, and Soul Calibur. The pros are I would have a Dreamcast with some pretty good fighting games that are not outside the US Region. Basically I won't have to import them plus I have heard nothing but good things about the Dreamcast as Fighter console. The Cons, I am buying a whole system for games I can get or already have on the PS2 with the exception of Soul Calibur. Plus if ever get a launch window PS3, I can still play most my old PS2 games, which I can't do with the Dreamcast.

For Importing, I can get all the dreamcast games I don't already have plus Neo Geo BC, KOF XI, and Namco X Capcom for PS2 which I already have.These are all imports however, which means they are pretty expensive games. I am also going to have to modify my PS2 no matter what. There is also the language barrier. Plus, this will add a lot of games to my already pretty big PS2 library. I just don't really want so many games for the PS2. To much of anything can be bad.

So what to you guys think, Dreamcast or Importing?

Dreamcast has KoF 99 Dream Match (actually a better version of 98), arcade perfect MvC2 and better versions of some SNK games

PS2 has everything else better or just as good, and a bigger library, and you already have a PS2

Your call