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Metroid Prime 3: Corruption


DarkeSword
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wtf, hunters is the worst metroid game on earth. It does not even deserve the name of Metroid. I wish NST just made a new ip that was a shooter. Metroid is and never was a shooter.

Would someone be kind enough to explain to me the difference between whatever a "shooter" is and whatever the Prime games are? Are they not the same thing?

I enjoyed both Hunters and the rest of the Prime series and I don't really see many differences between the games as far as genre is concerned. Maybe it's because I'm a more casual gamer than most people,so maybe that's why I don't understand. I've heard the developers call the Prime games FPAs (First Person Adventures).

What makes Hunters a shooter as opposed to a typical Metroid Prime game (or FPA)?

/confused

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The numbered Prime games involve exploration, item collecting and huge boss battles which is why most would classify it as an adventure. You're shooting, sure, but it's not the main focus. Calling it a shooter is like saying Oblivion is an FPS because you can shoot bows and wands and whatnot.

Hunters is more combat oriented and it's main focus is definetly the online multiplayer (which it does fantastically btw). I have no clue why people like to complain about it's single player, it's obviously not meant to be the most enjoyable portion of the game.

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I haven't even finished the single-player because it was so boring.

Same with me.

I was thinking at that very moment... wow, I do not have a real problem with a single moment in the entire game.

"Horrible little narrative during credits"

@#*$%

I was thinking the same thing. I had been a little worried about the voice acting, but it turned out pretty good. Then that narrative...holy crap. There's a video on youtube where someone added a similar narrative to the ending of Metroid Prime...it reminded me of that.

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Would someone be kind enough to explain to me the difference between whatever a "shooter" is and whatever the Prime games are? Are they not the same thing?

I enjoyed both Hunters and the rest of the Prime series and I don't really see many differences between the games as far as genre is concerned. Maybe it's because I'm a more casual gamer than most people,so maybe that's why I don't understand. I've heard the developers call the Prime games FPAs (First Person Adventures).

What makes Hunters a shooter as opposed to a typical Metroid Prime game (or FPA)?

/confused

Shooters are linear. You move from level to level, never looking back. Think Halo, Max Payne, or Doom.

A FPA leaves the vast majority of the world open to you to go back and explore, virtually at any time.

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Metroid Prime games are pretty linear too though. Backtracking? You do that in every FPS games under the sun. Though MP at least attempts to make level-sized puzzles and pathways, it's still an FPS game. The entire "FPA" thing sounds disingenuous to me. Even Bioshock or Farcry with their relatively open ended gameplay are still definitely FPS games.

If you want true "FPA" type of game, I'd say Mercenary games comes close. You shoot a lot, kill a lot, but it's a true adventure since you actually trek without knowing what's out there and there are absolutely no paths to go through. But they're 3rd person. And more people call them 'sandbox' games.

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Metroid Prime games are pretty linear too though. Backtracking? You do that in every FPS games under the sun. Though MP at least attempts to make level-sized puzzles and pathways, it's still an FPS game. The entire "FPA" thing sounds disingenuous to me. Even Bioshock or Farcry with their relatively open ended gameplay are still definitely FPS games.

If you want true "FPA" type of game, I'd say Mercenary games comes close. You shoot a lot, kill a lot, but it's a true adventure since you actually trek without knowing what's out there and there are absolutely no paths to go through. But they're 3rd person. And more people call them 'sandbox' games.

Backtracking in every FPS game? Try again. Not in Halo, not in Half-Life 2. Backtracking isn't nearly as prevalent or common as it is in the Prime games - I agree with filing them under a different category because of it. Yes, you shoot things, but stuff like locking on and assisted aiming make it far less focused on shooting than scanning and exploring. Hunters broke that mold - there's a little bit of token scanning, and there's revisiting old planets for various reasons, but the only real backtracking you do is because you got a new beam that opens a new door, not because you have a new ability and can reach a new place. While fundamentally they're the same thing, just getting a new beam feels a whole lost less... realistic.

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Metroid Prime games are pretty linear too though. Backtracking? You do that in every FPS games under the sun. Though MP at least attempts to make level-sized puzzles and pathways, it's still an FPS game. The entire "FPA" thing sounds disingenuous to me. Even Bioshock or Farcry with their relatively open ended gameplay are still definitely FPS games.

If you want true "FPA" type of game, I'd say Mercenary games comes close. You shoot a lot, kill a lot, but it's a true adventure since you actually trek without knowing what's out there and there are absolutely no paths to go through. But they're 3rd person. And more people call them 'sandbox' games.

The Metroid Prime games aren't linear. Backtracking isn't the only thing that seperates the Prime series from FPSs. Their is also exploration, puzzle solving, and sequence breaking. I don't now why people say you can't sequence break in the prime games because you most definately can. I do it all the time including in Corruption. The main objective of FPSs, even if they do contain other elements, usually revolves around killing things, getting from point a to point b and or escaping from a certain place. Also, you can backtrack in almost every FPS but, the games don't give you any reason to do so. FPSs are also very action oriented. There are very long periods of time, including in Corruption, where you don't shoot a single thing. Trust me, if you play a lot of FPSs like I do, you should know that the Prime series plays totally different from any FPS out there. If you don't, in my opinion, you aren't playing the Prime series to its fullest, or aren't giving it the special time and attention it needs.

echoes was difficult because of the counter-intuitive level design and the fact that every item required a boss fight. corruption made it seem like they didnt even try in those areas. plus, even with the hint system off in corruption, youre still told where to go, which seems is built in to the story-driven design of the game. i liked it much better in super metroid or prime 1. they both had well distributed boss battles, and even though they didnt happen as often, they were tougher.

exploration was a huge aspect of previous metroid games, but it seems that exploration was much more fun in previous metroid games because of the rewards. now its like the game punishes you for exploring. oh you wanna explore? have fun navigating through these energy draining areas just to find you have to go all the way back through it because youre missing a certain item. in other metroid games it was like "oops i f-ed up...oh heres an elevator let me go do something else."

okay. being a developer let me talk about this for a second.

yes, the job of a developer is to listen to its users. however, that does not mean that everything a developer makes is what the users want. in fact ive seen some developers hand a project that was completely what the user didnt want.

ive also seen developers over-complicate the requirements to the point where they wouldnt have the budget or time to complete it. this is whats called "gold plating"

the developer says "well lets fulfill this requirement by doing all sorts of neat shit!"

bad developer, bad.

what im trying to say is: just because we dislike something in echoes, doesnt mean we want it completely erradicated in the next installment. just do it right this time. in addition, simply fix the issue rather than radically changing the game, because thats what we as users wanted.

Agian wasn't aimed at anyone in paticular. If there is anyone this post was directed at it is spoiled modern gamers that have very shallow tastes and want developers to give them everything they want. I also agree with a lot of what you say. Its just many people don't back up the their claims the way you do, especially in an itelligent way. Also, about the whole developer thing, these guys really try hard to please their audience. I don't think they need the treatment given to them by many gamers today. Yes, they make mistakes like every body else. I just hate when people whine about how I didn't get what I want.

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Really? All I could think while I watched my brother play Skytown was "When is Lando going to come out and greet you?"

Really? It didn't have that "round" building shape at all, or even the same cloud structure. It's loaded with Chozo statues and sculptures, odd robot shapes and curving, and decorative lines, not to mention it's "emptiness" that makes you feel alone. The way all of Skytown stayed afloat were through very visible, rumbling and even noisy rockets.

That's one thing I can say for certain for for MP3:Corruption- it was very good on the Metroid feel.

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The Metroid Prime games, they use a first person view point and you shoot things. That makes them First Person Shooters, right? This is a misconception common among people new to the series but I see even those familiar with the series give these games the FPS label, and it's just not correct at all. You can't compare Metroid Prime to Halo or Doom etc. because these games simply are not in the same genre. But what's the difference, really? The repetition of this question has lead me to give the answer a few days of thought and I've finally decided to post my answer, it's a bit involved so bear with me.

First, let's step back to the 2-D roots of both the Metroid Series and the Run 'N Gun style games. I'll use Super Metroid and Contra 3 as my genre representatives.

In Super Metroid and Contra 3, you control an armed character, you run through environments and you shoot things. Yet, despite these similiarities these games play nothing like each other. The defining difference is in the games' focus.

In a Run 'N Gun, you shoot things. That's what you do to progress. The focus is on combat. Contra 3 is a very pure Run 'N Gun example. The Mega Man series are Run 'N Gun games that also have a very heavy platforming element, but what you do to progress is still primarily focused on combating enemies.

Super Metroid and its 2-D kin are Side-scrolling Adventure games. They share more in common with the Legend of Zelda series than with the likes of Contra. Super Metroid has 3 (quite well balanced) focuses. The primary focus is Navigation. This consists of exploration and puzzle solving. Travel from one point to another is often not straight forward. A lot of examination and thought are required to figure out the environment and discover how to progress. The secondary focus is Traversal, the actual act of moving through the environment. Samus makes use of basic platforming, acrobatics, and her own inventory of tools and weapons to manipulate the environment to allow her to progress. The tertiary focus is Combat. Most enemies in Super Metroid are trivial, little more than nuisances to shoot or avoid or make use of. That's not to say there are no intense fire fights. There are points were you run into aggressive enemies that take a lot of damage before going down, unexpected mini-bosses to keep you on your toes, and main boss battles are never short of spectacular. Even so, this element is part of a much more intricate whole, part of an overarching cerebral/visceral experience that defines the Action Adventure genre. These elements directly translate into 3-D.

(Note: nowhere does linear VS non-linear level design become relevant in this definition)

The 3-D equivalents of the 2-D Run 'N Gun games are the 3rd Person and First Person Shooters (I'll only address the First Person Shooters here). A modern FPS is a lot more complex than a classic Run 'N Gun but the focus remains the same. You shoot to progress. Combat is the objective and main attraction. The typical "environmental puzzle" is usually no more involved than finding the right color key card for the door at the end of the level.

The Metroid Prime games, meanwhile, are in the direct lineage of the 2-D Metroid games. They are Adventure games. Moving the perspective to First Person does not change the genre. The focuses of the games are largely unchanged. The primary focus is still Navigation. The star of the show (aside from Samus herself) is the environment. It's your main opponent. There's a bit of a change in the secondary and tertiary focuses, depending on which of the 3 Prime games you're addressing. Classic platforming has been reduced since it's a lot more difficult to pull off traditional acrobatics in 3-D, but in its place are some expansive Morph Ball obstacle courses (these reached their apex in Echoes). Prime probably stays closest to the classic distribution; Echoes sees Traversal and Combat reach more of an even level; and Corruption sees Combat as the secondary focus with slightly reduced Traversal as tertiary. They're all still Adventure games. If Samus wielded a sword and traveled through fantasy themed environments there wouldn't even be a question on genre.

In the Legend of Zelda, Link uses a melee weapon to hit things, so it's totally a Hack and Slash game and should be directly compared to God of War, right? Of course not. Saying Wind Waker is in the same genre as God of War because of some superficial similiarities is absurd, but this is exactly the type of comparison being made with every Metroid VS Halo (or whatever the hot FPS of the moment is) comment.

But why are genre labels important anyway? When meeting new people, most of you probably know how important first impressions are. They leave the first indelible mental imprint of what sort of person you are. Well, the first impression many gamers get of a game are from the genre the game has been tagged with. If a gamer is used to the style of play seen in Halo or Quake or Unreal and expects that sort of experience going into Metroid Prime, they have been set up for a disappointment: and it's not the game's fault. Here's a personal example:

A friend of mine went to the theater to see The Mummy (1999). The previews had lead him to believe it was a horror film and that's what he was anticipating. Finding out it was an Indiana Jones style movie left a bad taste in his mouth and to this day he really hates The Mummy. But he Loves The Mummy Returns. The sequel is the exact same type of film as the first was. The reason his opinions are so polar opposite has everything to do with his expectations. He went into The Mummy Returns knowing exactly what sort of movie it was, and so his expectations were met, and he thoroughly enjoyed the experience. Labels can have a huge impact on whether a movie or video game is enjoyed or not. Some people just can't get past that first impression.

The Metroid games sit squarely in the Action Adventure genre and properly rub shoulders with games like The Legend of Zelda. The settings and presentation are different, but the game play focuses are largely the same. That's the conclusion I drew from my examination of these games. It's getting a bit late and I hope I put it down in text as clearly as it is in my head. :grin:

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It's first person, and you shoot things. One would think it's an FPS just by definition.

But that bases the definition on superficial elements and is non descriptive of the experience. This oversimplification makes for a poor and misleading definition. A proper definition should describe the focus of the game.

It's first person, and you explore engrossing environments. One would think it's an FPA just by definition.

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The Metroid Prime games aren't linear. Backtracking isn't the only thing that seperates the Prime series from FPSs. Their is also exploration, puzzle solving, and sequence breaking.

Why do you make it sound like FPS games are bad for it? Even Doom games had a similar structure with the unlocking of doors and a lot of other games including System Shock and games of similar ilk had pretty good puzzle elements from the level design alone. I simply don't think it matters to differentiate. The only differentiating factor to me is that it's a Metroid game. No more no less.

I don't now why people say you can't sequence break in the prime games because you most definately can.

You can, but it's not designed to. Especially not with Prime games. Even with 2D Metroid games, they create a very good illusion of open ended gameplay, but the path is pretty set if you can figure out the exploratory aspect.

I do it all the time including in Corruption. The main objective of FPSs, even if they do contain other elements, usually revolves around killing things, getting from point a to point b and or escaping from a certain place. Also, you can backtrack in almost every FPS but, the games don't give you any reason to do so. FPSs are also very action oriented. There are very long periods of time, including in Corruption, where you don't shoot a single thing. Trust me, if you play a lot of FPSs like I do, you should know that the Prime series plays totally different from any FPS out there. If you don't, in my opinion, you aren't playing the Prime series to its fullest, or aren't giving it the special time and attention it needs.

You just described a lot of FPS games. It just seems to me that people have a lot of misconceptions of other FPS games on top of talking about Metroid games. Keep it to Metroid Prime, not trampling on all the merits of all FPS games under the sun.

The Metroid Prime games, they use a first person view point and you shoot things. That makes them First Person Shooters, right? This is a misconception common among people new to the series but I see even those familiar with the series give these games the FPS label, and it's just not correct at all. You can't compare Metroid Prime to Halo or Doom etc. because these games simply are not in the same genre. But what's the difference, really? The repetition of this question has lead me to give the answer a few days of thought and I've finally decided to post my answer, it's a bit involved so bear with me.

Again, what need is there to differentiate? The sole differentiating factor should be that it's a Metroid.

FPS games are quite deeper than what people give credit for. There's the 'run and gun types' like Serious Sam, the 'epic' types such as Half Life, the tactical types like the Tom Clancy games, the old/extinct/only-Morrowind RPG style, the relatively open ended types, the multiple path types like Deus Ex and others.

The Metroid Prime games, meanwhile, are in the direct lineage of the 2-D Metroid games. They are Adventure games. Moving the perspective to First Person does not change the genre. The focuses of the games are largely unchanged. The primary focus is still Navigation. The star of the show (aside from Samus herself) is the environment.

That's what happens when you focus too much on one thing when you're trying to discuss everything else about FPS and making sweeping generalizations like this. You know what the star of Mercenary truly was? North Korea itself. Star of FarCry? Obviously the jungle island. Star of Bioshock? Rapture.

But why are genre labels important anyway? When meeting new people, most of you probably know how important first impressions are. They leave the first indelible mental imprint of what sort of person you are.

Then that means they are misinformed, hasty gamers who need to do better research. Also, I don't think gamers are really that retarded. Anyone who played games can differentiate Portal from Postal.

The Metroid games sit squarely in the Action Adventure genre and properly rub shoulders with games like The Legend of Zelda. The settings and presentation are different, but the game play focuses are largely the same.

I'd almost agree except Metroid is still an FPS game. I think people are twisting that into something derogatory, but FPS games nowadays are getting more involving all the time. Wait a few years until the next great "action adventure FPS" game comes alone made by a 3rd party.

But that bases the definition on superficial elements and is non descriptive of the experience. This oversimplification makes for a poor and misleading definition. A proper definition should describe the focus of the game.

It's first person, and you explore engrossing environments. One would think it's an FPA just by definition.

I think classifying it as a Metroid FPS is good enough. FPA is not worth putting out as a genre when it's only a handful few games doing it. The reason for putting things in a genre or categorization is to separate a large number of games from one another. There really is no need. Prime games are Metroid that happens to be done in a FPS style perspective and display structure.

Also, I do agree that FPS is a catchall phrase. In that sense, Metroid Prime is no exception. Even the developers put in the multiplayer in TWO of the Prime games to acknowledge the similarity to the FPS roots as much as it is a Metroid/Adventure title. It's like calling visual game novels as 'eroge' (erotic game) even when some of them don't even have any eroticism in there.

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Genre distinctions are helpful, but there's a certain point where you have to let individual games just be what they are within their broad genre. Halo, Half Life and Metroid may all be First Person Shooters, but each of them has their own strengths, weaknesses and unique experiences to offer. A game doesn't need it's own genre category to offer a unique experience. For a glimpse at what happens when you define your genres too narrowly, just have a look at techno music.

That said, the fact that one could almost fit Oblivion into the genre of FPS does kind of show that some additional genre specifications might be useful. I kind of wish the camera viewpoint were left out of genre names entirely. Third-person shooters are almost the same exact thing and plenty of non-shooter games offer the first-person view.

I don't know. In the end, I doubt too many people lose any sleep over genres. I don't have to know that Psychonauts was a platformer to know it was awesome.

I need sleep, I think. I'm starting to babble.

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Heh, for a game the boasts the "best FPS controls on any console", you'd think there's a chance that it's an FPS?? ;) Not an entirely traditional one, but an FPS nonetheless... maybe.

I'm curious what others think of this opinion: here is a list of games I've played, most of which are not particularly noted for their exploration, that I felt had better exploration than any of the Prime games (ESPECIALY Prime 3... so far):

- Turok 2

- Goldeneye

- System Shock 2

- Paper Mario

- Super Paper Mario

- Zelda 1, 2, and LTTP

- Super Mario Bros 3

- Diddy Kong Racing (well, maybe that's pushing it)

A little ironic, no?

I'm right at the end of skytown (1 piece of the THING left to pick up), and I'm rather dissapointed by the pure lack of exploration in that place (particularly towards the end). In the last half, there were absolutely NO "forks in the road". I just went on "autopilot", romping from one room to the next without caring where I am, casually scanning and shooting things as I went. It was practically impossible to explore or get lost, because the next thing you had to do was always right in front of you (or sometimes *gasp* somewhere else in the same room!). They made an intricate single-path labyrinth of activating every machine you saw, when instead they could have made building-size puzzles that actually made you think. There was ONE fork I found, but it turned out to be just a save room. During my "autopilot" flight through Skytown, I didn't even care to take note where I was on the map at any point. "Oh cool, 10 minutes ago I was at the bottom of this room, and now I'm at the top of this room, and this elevator is online! How about that!" An extremely long linear run that takes no effort whatsoever (hey, the enemies were easy too, ESPECIALLY the metroids!) - that is NOT what most of us have come to expect in a Metroid game. Maybe a Prime game though. For me, Skytown hit a new low on the fun-o-meter. Playing any of those games I listed above is much more fun than anything in Skytown.... that place better have a good boss ><

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Heh, for a game the boasts the "best FPS controls on any console", you'd think there's a chance that it's an FPS?? ;) Not an entirely traditional one, but an FPS nonetheless... maybe.

I'm curious what others think of this opinion: here is a list of games I've played, most of which are not particularly noted for their exploration, that I felt had better exploration than any of the Prime games (ESPECIALY Prime 3... so far):

- Turok 2

- Goldeneye

- System Shock 2

- Paper Mario

- Super Paper Mario

- Zelda 1, 2, and LTTP

- Super Mario Bros 3

- Diddy Kong Racing (well, maybe that's pushing it)

A little ironic, no?

I'm right at the end of skytown (1 piece of the THING left to pick up), and I'm rather dissapointed by the pure lack of exploration in that place (particularly towards the end). In the last half, there were absolutely NO "forks in the road". I just went on "autopilot", romping from one room to the next without caring where I am, casually scanning and shooting things as I went. It was practically impossible to explore or get lost, because the next thing you had to do was always right in front of you (or sometimes *gasp* somewhere else in the same room!). They made an intricate single-path labyrinth of activating every machine you saw, when instead they could have made building-size puzzles that actually made you think. There was ONE fork I found, but it turned out to be just a save room. During my "autopilot" flight through Skytown, I didn't even care to take note where I was on the map at any point. "Oh cool, 10 minutes ago I was at the bottom of this room, and now I'm at the top of this room, and this elevator is online! How about that!" An extremely long linear run that takes no effort whatsoever (hey, the enemies were easy too, ESPECIALLY the metroids!) - that is NOT what most of us have come to expect in a Metroid game. Maybe a Prime game though. For me, Skytown hit a new low on the fun-o-meter. Playing any of those games I listed above is much more fun than anything in Skytown.... that place better have a good boss ><

prepare to be disappointed

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- Turok 2

- Goldeneye

- System Shock 2

- Paper Mario

- Super Paper Mario

- Zelda 1, 2, and LTTP

- Super Mario Bros 3

- Diddy Kong Racing

Bolded games are incredibly linear and only have large areas to simply wander about in.

Blue games define linearity.

Underlined games are just awesome and too good to be dragged into this argument.

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Again, what need is there to differentiate? The sole differentiating factor should be that it's a Metroid.

Sure, that's good enough for me, but that really doesn't mean anything to a person playing Metroid for the first time.

FPS games are quite deeper than what people give credit for. There's the 'run and gun types' like Serious Sam, the 'epic' types such as Half Life, the tactical types like the Tom Clancy games, the old/extinct/only-Morrowind RPG style, the relatively open ended types, the multiple path types like Deus Ex and others.

That's what happens when you focus too much on one thing when you're trying to discuss everything else about FPS and making sweeping generalizations like this. You know what the star of Mercenary truly was? North Korea itself. Star of FarCry? Obviously the jungle island. Star of Bioshock? Rapture.

I didn't intend to imply FPS games were simple or lacked diversity. The focus is still the same though. Combat. It's all about you VS the other guy. It may mean a shoot out, or it may involve tactics and strategy. It may be frantic shooting and strafing or it may mean careful positioning and sniping. But it's still combat focused. That's what you paid your entrance fee for. Modern games are certainly more genre agnostic and harder to fit into neat categories than past games. Modern FPS games may incorporate RPG or Adventure elements...but that just means they're veering into Metroid territory, not the other way around.

Now, I'll admit I only have passing familiarity with the FPS genre, watching a lot more than playing. But in your examples, what are the elements that make those environments stars? In Metroid, your biggest opponent is the environment. Most of your abilities, weapons and tools are used to maneuver through it, once you've figured out how. This is a basic adventure game element and has been present in Metroid from the beginning. Again, its presence in an FPS means the FPS has taken on Adventure (see Metroid) like elements.

Then that means they are misinformed, hasty gamers who need to do better research. Also, I don't think gamers are really that retarded. Anyone who played games can differentiate Portal from Postal.

You must keep enlightened company. An average trip around an average message board shows me as much ignorance as education. The fact that people want Metroid to gain a multiplayer focus and take on Halo head to head leads me to conclude some gamers are focusing on elements in opposition to what makes a Metroid game a Metroid game.

I'd almost agree except Metroid is still an FPS game. I think people are twisting that into something derogatory, but FPS games nowadays are getting more involving all the time. Wait a few years until the next great "action adventure FPS" game comes alone made by a 3rd party.

Again, that just means FPS' are veering into Metroid/Adventure territory, not the other way around.

I think classifying it as a Metroid FPS is good enough. FPA is not worth putting out as a genre when it's only a handful few games doing it. The reason for putting things in a genre or categorization is to separate a large number of games from one another. There really is no need. Prime games are Metroid that happens to be done in a FPS style perspective and display structure.

The purpose of creating a genre is to be descriptive. If you have a unique experience you don't lump it together with games that are superficially related just because you only have one example of it. That doesn't even make sense. Regardless, Metroid is an Adventure series. The fact that the Prime Trilogy uses a First Person Perspective is trivial, but that's what people get hung up on. I'd drop the FP altogether and just call them Adventure games. Again, you can't use the series' title as a genre descriptor because that assumes everyone knows what it means to be a Metroid game (everybody should know what it means to be a Metroid game, but let's not kid ourselves here). It's like defining a word with itself. "The definition of Jump is Jump."

Edit: Really, when it comes right down to it, gaming is a very personal experience: What we like, what we don't like, what makes or breaks an experience what defines an experience... I just feel that calling the Metroid games Adventure games serves as a better descriptor than calling them shooters. Shooters, whatever the flavor, call to mind a combat focus that just isn't present in Metroid. Even Corruption, which has the heaviest combat presence of the Prime Trilogy doesn't make combat its main focus. It's not a constant presence and the most common enemies are still more nuisance than threat.

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