Sonar 7

[The Pezman]

http://www.cakewalk.com/Products/SONAR/English/Upgrade/features.asp

Yay?

[Hale-Bopp]

I think I'm going to upgrade from 5. The new Pitch-to-MIDI function in V-Vocal looks like it'll be fun to play around with. I'm also in need of those new mastering tools. They appear rather intuitive/visual and I like that.

[Moseph]

I just bought 6 pretty recently, but I may upgrade. The MIDI tools overhaul looks like a very good thing.

[zircon]

The new PRV/smart MIDI and step sequencer supposedly make this very close to FLStudio in terms of workflow - or at least, you can customize it that way. This excites me, in the pants.

[Fray]

Yeah I skipped 6 not because I didn't like it but because I've been a total slacker on the mixing front in the past couple of years. But I probably will get 7 -- for one thing I've really wanted the vintage channel from 6.

That LP-64 EQ might finally replace the Timeworks one I've been using from Sonar 2 XL (the Sonitus one didn't tickle me as much for some reason).

And the fact that they finally support sidechaining in 7 is really hot imo

[The Pezman]

The new PRV/smart MIDI and step sequencer supposedly make this very close to FLStudio in terms of workflow - or at least, you can customize it that way.

Oh yeah. Saw the step sequencer and I knew. Normally I dislike products updating yearly... I'd rather a whole assload of new features every 2-3 years than a relative few. But this workflow change I like.

[dannthr]

I'll definitely upgrade if they fix their 64bit code. 6 was consistently horrible:

http://www.dawbench.com/blofelds-xp-v-vista2.htm

I'm also looking forward to the sound to midi app. Sometimes I'm writing and I just want to sketch stuff out fast--hopefully, I'll be able to lay down some quick sketches with it.

[The Pezman]

Anyone tried this yet?

[Harmony]

Way too soon for me. I'm gonna have to let my Sonar 6 box collect a little dust before upgrading

And the fact that they finally support sidechaining in 7 is really hot imo

Yeah I'd like to know how they worked that out. In 6 they seemed to claim that the lack of true sidechaining was a limitation of DX and VST architechtures (see the sonitus gate help menu).

The new PRV/smart MIDI and step sequencer supposedly make this very close to FLStudio in terms of workflow

Yeah, MIDI cut/glue/mute looks nice, the new velocity editing will probably get used a lot, and I will welcome the multiple controller panes in the piano-roll with open arms. But honestly, aside from personal preference, I've never really understood the supposed advantages of the FL Studio piano-roll to that in previous Sonar versions, especially Sonar 6. What is 7 bringing that will change the PRV workflow that significantly? What was Sonar 6's PRV missing that prevented the same workflow speed as FL?

[po!]

geez, sonar 7?? i'm still using sonar 4. i'll probably keep it that way.. it has all i need without the bloat

[zircon]

Yeah, MIDI cut/glue/mute looks nice, the new velocity editing will probably get used a lot, and I will welcome the multiple controller panes in the piano-roll with open arms. But honestly, aside from personal preference, I've never really understood the supposed advantages of the FL Studio piano-roll to that in previous Sonar versions, especially Sonar 6. What is 7 bringing that will change the PRV workflow that significantly? What was Sonar 6's PRV missing that prevented the same workflow speed as FL?

I simply think FL's workflow is unbeatable. Primarily:

* Left click to create a note.

* Left click and hold while creating a note to drag it around; as you move through new pitches, you hear the note sound off. (VERY IMPORTANT!)

* Left click and hold on an existing note to move it.

* Left click and hold from the right edge of a note to resize it.

* Left click and hold through the velocity lane to edit an entire group of note velocities at the same time.

* Left click on an existing note to hear it sound off. Preview duration is based on how long you hold.

* Right click and drag through the velocity lane to create a smooth line.

* Right click to delete a note.

* Mass velocity editing by pressing Ctrl+X (scale velocities); change relative dynamics, do an offset, etc.

* One-click quantizing to snap value OR to customizable grooves.

No other sequencer in existence that I have used can do all this, and I do all of these operations all the time. All of this is WITHOUT changing tools.

[dannthr]

SONAR's workflow isn't that different, really.

They just separate the up/down movement of a note from the left/right so if you click on the far left side then you can slide it left or right and if you click in the middle you can slide up or down.

Every time you move it to a new note it auditions the note at the notes native velocity.

Additionally, if you hold down leftclick when you place a note you can move it in the x or y directions with the mouse to place it exactly where you need.

you can select all of the notes and do mass velocity changes by sliding the velocity up or down or obviously you can draw in a velocity line/curve.

Right click brings up finite note properties so you can edit everything the note to precision with a single click.

Similarly, SONAR has quantization toggles.

The only time you have to change a tool is if you want to expand a selection box around a specific region in the roll bar or if you want to erase a note quickly.

Your default note size can be selected or it can be the same as the last note you edited--same with velocity.

Additionally, you can audition on the piano roll and in SONAR 7 (I have 5) I think you can hear different velocity auditions depending on how far left or right you click on the piano roll (like in K2).

You can do relative velocity offsets as well.

Seriously, that's just general sequencing stuff--if your sequencer doesn't do that it isn't any good.

[Harmony]

Zircon. As far as I know, the note velocity editing in Sonar 6 is pretty limited. I would love to be able to click a few notes and change only their velocities in the controller/velocity pane as in FL Studio.

The other functions you mentioned though are similar in Sonar 6. Using only the draw tool in PRV:

* Left click to create a note.

SONAR: same

* Left click and hold while creating a note to drag it around; as you move through new pitches, you hear the note sound off. (VERY IMPORTANT!)

SONAR: no equivalent but is accomplished by next bullet

* Left click and hold on an existing note to move it.

SONAR: same

* Left click and hold from the right edge of a note to resize it.

SONAR: same. Also, clicking near left edge resizes from left.

* Left click and hold through the velocity lane to edit an entire group of note velocities at the same time.

SONAR: same. group not selectable though, i.e. all notes in that time range are affected.

* Left click on an existing note to hear it sound off. Preview duration is based on how long you hold.

SONAR: same

* Right click and drag through the velocity lane to create a smooth line.

SONAR: alt+left click.

* Right click to delete a note.

SONAR: alt+right click

* Mass velocity editing by pressing Ctrl+X (scale velocities); change relative dynamics, do an offset, etc.

SONAR: similar, but slower. velocity editor is accesed through main menu

* One-click quantizing to snap value OR to customizable grooves.

SONAR: same. never used the grooves though so I'm not sure how easy it is to use.

[zircon]

Well, I haven't used SONAR since version 3 - last I did, it wasn't anything like FL's piano roll. Likewise, I've used Logic, Cubase, Pro Tools, Reason... none of them have the features I described.

So if all those features really *are* implemented, cool. The velocity editing still doesn't sound as good, though.

[Harmony]

The velocity editing still doesn't sound as good, though.

True indeed. Fortunately, SONAR 7 looks to have also

.

[Moseph]

True indeed. Fortunately, SONAR 7 looks to have also

.

I was quite shocked to find that the velocity editing in Sonar 6 was inferior to that of Reason 3.0, despite the fact that almost everything else about the note editing is better.

[SnappleMan]

Do Sonar 7 or FL have anything like Cubase's Logical Editor? You can program "functions" for MIDI use within the program, you can mess with ANY aspect of the MIDI notes, velocity, length, quantization, pitch, etc. I use it to program random velocity functions and other awesome stuff (nothing beats clicking on the entire midi track, choosing the random velocity function in whatever range I want, let's say... 64-110, and BOOM, nice velocities, all random!^____^)

I have a few extra machines here, and I want to turn one of them into a portable DAW, not sure if I should install Cubase again or try Sonar.

[Kidd Cabbage]

Yeah, in Sonar 6 at least, there are ways to do things similarly, but in my opinion, a lot easier. Like, velocity, you can select the track, go to the velocity tool, and set all of them to a certain amount with randomization (so if you wanted a 60-100 range, you could set all notes to 80 with a 20 point randomization). There's also a Tendency bar for the randomization, too, so, how often it goes up as opposed to down and by how much.

There's other cool tools to make things really natural, too, like if you copy and paste a drum part, for instance, and you want the same accentuation, but not all the same hits, you could select it and in the velocity tool, set it to Change - 0, Randomization - 7 or something.

There's ways to really humanize all the MIDI things, like length and quantization. You can do cool things, too, like only have the effects apply to certain hits. There's a 'select by filter' option, and you can filter the notes by pitch and beat and all those options, so you can select all the snare hits on 2 & 4 with that filter and only have the effects apply to those notes.

Anyways, this isn't just Sonar 7 - I'm still using 6, and I'm just ranting at this point. That I know of, there's no actual function thing, but there's ways to pull it all off, and from my view, a lot easier and more controlling, too.

[SnappleMan]

I don't see how it's easier. You can program it the same way in Cubase, and that's it. Program it once and then it's a preset you can use with a keyboard shortcut.

[Kidd Cabbage]

Yeah, well... I don't have the patience to figure out the logical editor, so it's easier for me.

[Harmony]

Oh yeah, and the one thing I wish that every sequencer had is FL Studio's "slide" notes. So simple. So useful. Rather than fighting SONAR to get the same job done, there has been many a time where it has been easier for me to open FL Studio, import a midi track, apply slides, export as audio, and bring it back to SONAR. I didn't see anything like that in SONAR 7's new features list. Geez Cakewalk, get on the ball.

Unless I'm missing some simple equivalent in SONAR that everyone knows about except me?