Jump to content

Jay-Z song uses Chrono Trigger sample? **FALSE - MYTHBUSTED**


chrono26
 Share

Recommended Posts

Well, I don't just play bass. Plus I make a living from producing Hip-Hop in my region, and am arguably the most sought-after producer for Pop/Hip-Hop/R&B in said region at this point.

So you can say and think what you want (please do), but I have cred kthx.

I enjoy most of the music I've heard from you so I certainly know you're more than just a bass player. And highly sought after in your area? And you feel that instruments are a key to your success? Cookies all around!

What I'm concerned with is your blanket statement about Kanye and Timbaland's work. If you hate their productions because of some subjective opinion concerning their melodies, beats or sound, then fine. But that really doesn't seem like what you're implying. It seems like you're dismissive of their body of work because you don't appreciate the process by which they created some of their music. If so, I wouldn't expect such a narrow view of music from a musician.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 92
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

I enjoy most of the music I've heard from you so I certainly know you're more than just a bass player. And highly sought after in your area? And you feel that instruments are a key to your success? Cookies all around!

What I'm concerned with is your blanket statement about Kanye and Timbaland's work. If you hate their productions because of some subjective opinion concerning their melodies, beats or sound, then fine. But that really doesn't seem like what you're implying. It seems like you're dismissive of their body of work because you don't appreciate the process by which they created some of their music. If so, I wouldn't expect such a narrow view of music from a musician.

I didn't mean to make a blanket statement. I thought I said I don't like their music. I used to look up to Timbaland as a producer hero of mine until I came across a few DJ sample files that crossfaded his music with the original he sampled from. Unbelievable. I never believed, but I'd equate it to finding out there is no Santa Claus. Made me so sad and I lost so much respect for him. Kanye - I read about him in a magazine and I loved him on paper. Underdog, pushed around, and from my old stomping grounds in Chi Town. Then I heard the music and wanted to kill myself and everyone in sight.

If I don't like something, I don't like it. Doesn't mean I don't like everything that's kinda like it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I used to look up to Timbaland as a producer hero of mine until I came across a few DJ sample files that crossfaded his music with the original he sampled from. Unbelievable. I never believed, but I'd equate it to finding out there is no Santa Claus. Made me so sad and I lost so much respect for him.

Yeah, I can understand that; disillusionment is a helluva drug.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORsHlKSyvBo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_goBj3iZ7w

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, and then he has the audacity to say that he's a music "composer" like "uh Amadeus" or "uh Mozart." Nevermind those are the same person, but I'm pretty sure Mozart didn't take audio from other people's CDs and make hits with them.

I keep waiting for the day when aliens come down (preferably ToeJam and Earl) and they push a button that deletes all of our recorded music.

Then the sampling producers will have to wait for fine folks like us that can sequence music ourselves to make albums so they can sample them and get back to work.

ROLLS EYES

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, and then he has the audacity to say that he's a music "composer" like "uh Amadeus" or "uh Mozart." Nevermind those are the same person, but I'm pretty sure Mozart didn't take audio from other people's CDs and make hits with them.

Timbaland has done just as many beats using samples as he has without samples. But even if he hadn't does that really make him any less of a composer? What about people like Steve Reich or Pierre Schaeffer who have composed music using only tape loops? Or even Mozart himself who was pretty well known for borrowing ideas from other composers. Like I said before, this has been common practice in music for forever, and the only difference these days is that producers have the ability to sample directly from recordings, and why shouldn't they?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I keep waiting for the day when aliens come down (preferably ToeJam and Earl) and they push a button that deletes all of our recorded music.

Then the sampling producers will have to wait for fine folks like us that can sequence music ourselves to make albums so they can sample them and get back to work.

So sorry to disappoint, but robot aliens have already landed, cast judgment on our music and found that heavy sampling is by far

than creating music from the ground up. Guess all those sampling producers had it right all along :)

daft_punk.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Timbaland has done just as many beats using samples as he has without samples. But even if he hadn't does that really make him any less of a composer? What about people like Steve Reich or Pierre Schaeffer who have composed music using only tape loops? Or even Mozart himself who was pretty well known for borrowing ideas from other composers. Like I said before, this has been common practice in music for forever, and the only difference these days is that producers have the ability to sample directly from recordings, and why shouldn't they?

Because I think it's better to pay homage to rather than just outright use someone else's music. If that's just me, fine. But it's not just 'cause I know a lot of people that think like that. I mean, Kanye and Timbaland are huge. That doesn't mean I have to like it?

Harmony, Daft Punk is awesome. But you can't tell me it's the same as

.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Harmony, Daft Punk is awesome. But you can't tell me it's the same as
.

Haha, I hadn't heard that Nelly song before, but I must say, I think it deserves exactly as much sampling-hate as the Daft Punk examples I posted above. And this Daft Punk love I don't understand. I mean I like them, but based on what you've said in this thread, how could you !?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

hey stronger is a good song and daft punk liked what kanye did with the source tune. kanye even said himself that he thinks that his song is good but it doesnt compare to the original. and mustin i think you missed my post on one of the earlier pages where i was trying to show you how kanye doesnt effortlessly sample. i dont wanna get you to like the music, its cool if you dont but dont put kanye in the catagory with producers who just throw drum beats over a ripped bassline or something.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Timbaland has done just as many beats using samples as he has without samples. But even if he hadn't does that really make him any less of a composer? What about people like Steve Reich or Pierre Schaeffer who have composed music using only tape loops? Or even Mozart himself who was pretty well known for borrowing ideas from other composers. Like I said before, this has been common practice in music for forever, and the only difference these days is that producers have the ability to sample directly from recordings, and why shouldn't they?

You compared Steve Reich to Timbaland :(

Now I'm going to listen to 'Drumming' and cry

EDIT: Though when I read your statement you make a good point. The thing about the Timbaland-stealing is that he hardly even changed the sounds and built the whole song around it. Even though it's "ok" in the music business (just look at hung-up by Madonna) I still find it both boring and sad.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Haha, I hadn't heard that Nelly song before, but I must say, I think it deserves exactly as much sampling-hate as the Daft Punk examples I posted above. And this Daft Punk love I don't understand. I mean I like them, but based on what you've said in this thread, how could you !?

I guess 'cause Daft Punk also has "Aerodynamic" and "Veridis Quo," where as Kanye also has

Oh that's right, nothing that I've liked so far.

I haven't heard all of the new album yet so I don't know - maybe things have changed. Whether or not he effortlessly samples, chrono26, I still just don't like his music. I find it annoying. I loved his duet with Pharrell, though. 'Course I think I've only heard one beat from The Neptunes that I haven't liked out of their entire library.

And Harmony, I didn't click that link the first time. I should have. I realized Daft Punk sampled, but not to the extreme as heard in those examples.

Sad.

The whole world is a Monet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Because I think it's better to pay homage to rather than just outright use someone else's music.

Is there a difference? The only real change has been that artists who sample can use actual recordings of songs instead of performing or sequencing it themselves, and why shouldn't they? I can't speak for everybody who samples, but I know when I sample it's not because I think "Oh hey I like this melody, it's better than anything I could come up with on my own so I'll just take it and call it a day." I sample because there is a certain sound or quality about a particular recording that I like that makes me think "well what if it was used in a different context?"

The thing about the Timbaland-stealing is that he hardly even changed the sounds and built the whole song around it.

Why would he change the sounds? It isn't the notes he's after.

Just as an example, look at what RZA did when he sampled 'While My Guitar Gently Weeps'. The song came out sounding like some lame watered down R&B cover of the original, because he didn't directly sample, he just borrowed the chord progression.

And then take The Roots (ironically praised for being the only hip hop artists that "play instruments") who directly sampled 'You and Whose Army?' by Radiohead. It came out maintaining the haunting quality of the original, while sounding like an entirely new song at the same time.

Even though it's "ok" in the music business (just look at hung-up by Madonna)

Not sure what you mean by this. If anything it's NOT "ok in the music business". I'd be willing to bet that the majority of the times lawsuits are brought against artists who sample, it is initiated by record companies, while the original composers actually don't have a problem with it, and even encourage it. Even Steve Reich supported The Orb for sampling 'Electric Counterpoint' in one of their songs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Most people who sample clear the sample now thanks to Biz Markie. At least the big dawgs. I don't think most smaller level professionals or hobbyists out there bother with it. Honestly, big companies don't care until you're making the big bucks 'cause they want their cut. Still, it's illegal even in the slightest without clearance.

Is there a difference? The only real change has been that artists who sample can use actual recordings of songs instead of performing or sequencing it themselves, and why shouldn't they? I can't speak for everybody who samples, but I know when I sample it's not because I think "Oh hey I like this melody, it's better than anything I could come up with on my own so I'll just take it and call it a day." I sample because there is a certain sound or quality about a particular recording that I like that makes me think "well what if it was used in a different context?"

The difference?

"Here's a cool song." *cut 'n paste*

"I want to redo this song as a Bossa Nova!" *makes an arrangement, maybe uses real instruments which may or may not involve recruiting musicians, sequences arrangement into software, applies knowledge of music theory and instrumentation, etc.*

If someone who samples wants to hear something in a different context, that's cool. I would just much rather re-imagine it myself (see: The Wingless) in said context. I'm not saying that you thought about it any less than I did. That wouldn't be fair. I'm just saying that I appreciate the fact that The Wingless really put together something really interesting to me, whereas a sampler more or less, "cuts and pastes." (Not saying it's always as simple as that, but that's where it all starts)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share


×
×
  • Create New...