Lunahorum Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 are these any good? http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/MAudio-Studiophile-AV20-Monitor-Speaker-Pair?sku=601029 It's christmas time so I get to buy something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnappleMan Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 Nope. No way I would call those "monitors". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunahorum Posted December 12, 2007 Author Share Posted December 12, 2007 what about these - http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/speakers_audio/home_pc_speakers/devices/249&cl=us,en ? Hey SM what kind of sound system do you have? It's very hard to shop online for monitors since I can't hear what they sound like so maybe you could tell me what you use. Thanks! edit: I have another question. I am looking at speakers and most of them have a response of 40hz to 22khz or something like that. Howcome my current $5 radioshack mixing headphones say they have a 20hz to 20khz response even though they have a huge bass falloff? edit: one more - what's the difference between buying pretty flat monitors and buying something more wavy but applying counterbalancing EQ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fray Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 What's your budget? A pair of these (yeah they're sold individually, most monitors are) seem to be the favorite "cheap" monitor speakers: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/KRK-RP5-Rokit-Powered-Reference-Studio-Monitor?sku=602312 If you can only spend like $100, go for a good pair of (relatively) flat response headphones like Sennheiser HD-280pro or other favorites frequently mentioned in these forums. Those will be better for mixing than any speakers you can get in that price range. The Logitech speakers will be horrible for mixing. Way worse than the Studiophiles you linked. edit: one more - what's the difference between buying pretty flat monitors and buying something more wavy but applying counterbalancing EQ? The difference is everything. The extra EQ is just going to muddy up the sound even more. Plus it's easier said than done, and doesn't account for the fact that speakers (especially cheap ones) will have different responses at different volume levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunahorum Posted December 12, 2007 Author Share Posted December 12, 2007 (especially cheap ones) will have different responses at different volume levels. and with the fletcher munson effect coming into play, it would make it even worse. All right thanks for all the help Fray and SM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunahorum Posted December 12, 2007 Author Share Posted December 12, 2007 If I get those monitors you mentioned Fray, are they also loud enough to play my keyboard through? I want to play my keyboard through my guitar amp, but I hear tales of people ruining their guitar amps by not playing "a guitar" through them. How can it possibly ruin it? Isn't an amp just a speaker? Ok thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunahorum Posted December 12, 2007 Author Share Posted December 12, 2007 If I get those monitors you mentioned Fray, are they also loud enough to play my keyboard through? I want to play my keyboard through my guitar amp, but I hear tales of people ruining their guitar amps by not playing "a guitar" through them. How can it possibly ruin it? Isn't an amp just a speaker? Ok thanks. edit:posted 2x for some reason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
statas Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 you can play anything through a guitar amp, but whether it will sound good..... an amp, surprisingly, amplifies things. but not just in the way of making it louder. guitars have little to no gain on their output, so an amp compensates for this. most keyboards are putting out a line level signal, much much much louder than a guitar's signal... so if you take a signal that is much louder than the usual guitar signal, and turn it up..... blown speakers. you can do it, but be very careful with your output levels. but anyways, get the absolute best monitors you can on your budget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fray Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 Yep, they're loud enough to play your keyboard through. Any active monitor will do it (passive monitors require you to have a separate preamp, but those are generally higher end). Agreed with statas. You can plug your board into a guitar amp just fine, just watch the volume level, especially the bass. Guitar amps aren't meant to handle a lot of bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnappleMan Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 what about these - http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/speakers_audio/home_pc_speakers/devices/249&cl=us,en? Hey SM what kind of sound system do you have? It's very hard to shop online for monitors since I can't hear what they sound like so maybe you could tell me what you use. Thanks! edit: I have another question. I am looking at speakers and most of them have a response of 40hz to 22khz or something like that. Howcome my current $5 radioshack mixing headphones say they have a 20hz to 20khz response even though they have a huge bass falloff? edit: one more - what's the difference between buying pretty flat monitors and buying something more wavy but applying counterbalancing EQ? There are about 50 things wrong with this post. First off, the logitecs are in NO WAY monitors. You don't even know what monitors are, do you? At home, I use a pair of KRK RP-5's, they're very cheap, entry level monitors, they sound good. As for your 40hz to 20khz argument, ughh... Read this carefully: Studio monitors are different from general purpose speakers in many ways, many of them even I don't understand, but the important ones are as follows. First off, your shitty Radio Shack headphones don't have a 20hz-20khz range, they have a very limited range which is embellished by EQ, BASS BOOST 3000x!!! technology and all kinds of cheap tricks to make you THINK they're good. Same goes with normal speakers, they will have a 40hz range, but, that's false. The more likely have a range starting at 90hz, or 250hz, and they use the same kinds of bullshittery to trick your ears as those cheap headphones do. Monitors on the other hand (any monitors that don't suck that is) are made to give you an accurate range. Meaning, if your monitors go down to 40hz, they REALLY go down to 40hz. The woofer is big enough and well made so that it can accurately reproduce that 40hz bottom range. No monitors that I know of go down to 20hz, you'll need a sub woofer to get those frequencies. The KRK RP5 monitors I use are probably as cheap as you can go and still get decent monitors. At about $150 each, they're really affordable and well worth it. If you have lots of money to spend, and want what I think are the best monitors, get yourself a pair of Mackie HR824's. At about $500 each they're kinda pricey (still pocket change compared to the $50,000 systems that mastering houses use) but they're professional grade and very comfortably go down to about 38hz with amazing clarity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunahorum Posted December 12, 2007 Author Share Posted December 12, 2007 40hz to 20khz argument, ughh... no no no I am just trying to understand what is going on. I know nothing about anything. Thanks for the information. It is extremely helpful. edit: is a subwoof necessary for mixing such music as hiphop or rap where you want a low kick sound or do monitors work fine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnappleMan Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 I'd say, yes. If you really need those low frequencies, you literally wont hear them on monitors. If the range is 50hz, that's where the actual sound ends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiesty Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 you can get a pair of warfdale diamond 8.1 pros. Very nice near field monitors at a decent price, i think they are just over 100 bux each. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicole Adams Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 Go with at least the KRK RP-5 monitors. I use them and think they're pretty good, even with the 5" woofers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunahorum Posted December 14, 2007 Author Share Posted December 14, 2007 Ok cool. I think I might get the krk rp-5's. I'll buy one and my parents will buy the other for my christmas present. One more thing - These are active and plug straight into the rca soundcard jacks right? Nothing more is necessary? The only place I will be able to put these will be at sternum/elbow level sitting right on the desk. Will this be ok or do they have do be positioned in a correct spot to avoid phase cancellation and comb filtering phenomena? edit: I mean I sure as hell could go to home depot and build little stands for them, but can I just slide some carboard under them and angle them towards my ears? The desk they will be sitting on is made of plywood. They will also be brushing up against the sides of the monitor and the tower. I know it says they are shielding in the pdf guide on KRK website, but does anyone who has them know if they can be placed touched (about 1/2 inch of room from touching) both sides of the monitor and the tower? Sweet you guys are incredibly helpful - Thanks ed: I could also possibly hang them from my overhead shelf at ear level. I have no idea how I would get them to hang building a contraption myself (might have to buy something), but this is another option if the wooden desk is a problem which I don't know if it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
statas Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 the best position for monitors is about ear level. http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar02/articles/monitors.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fray Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 Ok cool. I think I might get the krk rp-5's. I'll buy one and my parents will buy the other for my christmas present. One more thing - These are active and plug straight into the rca soundcard jacks right? Nothing more is necessary? The only place I will be able to put these will be at sternum/elbow level sitting right on the desk. Will this be ok or do they have do be positioned in a correct spot to avoid phase cancellation and comb filtering phenomena? edit: I mean I sure as hell could go to home depot and build little stands for them, but can I just slide some carboard under them and angle them towards my ears? The desk they will be sitting on is made of plywood. They will also be brushing up against the sides of the monitor and the tower. I know it says they are shielding in the pdf guide on KRK website, but does anyone who has them know if they can be placed touched (about 1/2 inch of room from touching) both sides of the monitor and the tower? Sweet you guys are incredibly helpful - Thanks ed: I could also possibly hang them from my overhead shelf at ear level. I have no idea how I would get them to hang building a contraption myself (might have to buy something), but this is another option if the wooden desk is a problem which I don't know if it is. Yes, they're active monitors, and they have RCA plugs too. You'll be able to run a line straight from your soundcard. They should be fine to place next to your computer or monitor, but not actually touching as that would probably cause some annoying noises from the vibration... You do want them pointing at your ears, speaker placement for monitoring is pretty touchy regardless of what speakers you have. You could probably stack up some towels or something -- the less vibration you transfer to your desk the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunahorum Posted December 15, 2007 Author Share Posted December 15, 2007 If I tilt my head down and prop the monitors up, would that be the same as ear level? Or do the monitors have to be 90 degrees for optimum sound? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiesty Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 For height, ive just used books in the past. Make sure you take a look at the instruction manual as it will usually tell you the proper angles to place them at for how far you are away from them. If placed correctly you'll get the center channel effect going on which sounds pretty cool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoozer Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 Instead of books, you could also use something solid like a bunch of sawed MDF plates glued on top of eachother (which is what I did; they're heavy and easy to assemble). To get the tilt, get Auralex Mo-Pads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fray Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 To get the tilt, get Auralex Mo-Pads. I bought those, though I really couldn't help but feel like I was being had. It's like $40 for a few pieces of foam, jeez. There's got to be a DIY solution that gets you 90% of the way there without costing so damn much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunahorum Posted December 21, 2007 Author Share Posted December 21, 2007 Ok i am getting the rp-5 for christmas present. The guy at the store said if I am doing bass heavy things they will blow. What does that mean? Should I put a high pass filter in my mixer as the final channel? I thought I could play any music at a normal volume through them. edit: it says they are 53hz to 20khz +- 2db Does that mean that the bass falls off after 53 or that there is no bass at all below that point? I won't be listening to these monitors loud at all. Just normal listening levels. If there is normal listening energy around 53hz in the song, will the speakers blow? I didn't think so myself, but I don't know anything and the guy who sold them to me kept warning me about bass blows. 2ndedit: he also said to only connect them to a line level output. Never to a headphone output. I understand that because the headphone output has already been amped and the active monitors will amp it again. Technically though, if the volume was low enough, wouldn't the headphone output be fine? Or is amplitude not the only difference between line level jacks and headphone jacks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moseph Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 He probably mostly just wants to make sure that you won't destroy your monitors through negligence and then try to blame it on him or the store (I imagine that audio stores would tend to have problems with people doing this). I have no experience with RP-5s, but I would think that listening to stuff at normal volume levels isn't going to damage the speakers unless maybe you take an EQ and crank the bass frequencies up 36db or something. The issue is basically that cones of that size just can't produce low frequencies well, so don't try to make them sound like a subwoofer would. If you need the subwoofer sound, buy a subwoofer. Also, keep in mind that it's possible to damage any monitors; it's not an issue that's unique to this particular model. (A general no-no is plugging or unplugging audio cables that are active, because the pops this produces can damage monitors -- mute the related channels first.) Googled the headphone-out issue for you. It looks like using a headphone-out probably wouldn't be a problem. As always, just be careful with your levels and use common sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunahorum Posted December 21, 2007 Author Share Posted December 21, 2007 A general no-no is plugging or unplugging audio cables that are active, because the pops this produces can damage monitors -- mute the related channels first. So I click power off on the monitor, then shut down the computer right? To boot up, I boot the computer, then boot the monitors so they don't get that energy pop? Kind of like plugging a guitar into the amp, turn the amp off, plug in, turn it back on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fray Posted December 22, 2007 Share Posted December 22, 2007 So I click power off on the monitor, then shut down the computer right? To boot up, I boot the computer, then boot the monitors so they don't get that energy pop? Kind of like plugging a guitar into the amp, turn the amp off, plug in, turn it back on. I guess you could do that... I don't really bother Just keep the volume level reasonable on them, don't try to "crank it" or anything and you'll be fine with the bass. Was the guy in the store trying to sell you on a sub woofer or something? I think headphone outputs can be a problem in terms of impedence matching even if you keep the volume low. I really never can wrap my head around the imedence issues though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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