GrayLightning
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Posts posted by GrayLightning
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I requested the information from Jeremy on the exact themes he used.
0:16 is the first instance of theme, when weapon attacks junon
0:47 is the continuation after some john adams-like interlude
1:09 is cid's theme
1:15 is a variation + expansion of the theme first heard at 0:16 - i bring back this variation one more time later on
1:27 to 2:17 is straight from the weapon attacking theme - this included sephiroth's theme at the end already, uematsu also likes to play with themes
2:50 is the recapitulation of the beginning, but what is neat here is that a flute foreshadows an upcoming theme at the exact same moment
2:50 is two ff7 themes at once, the main theme of this part (weapon theme) and the main theme of ff7 (the title screen theme)
3:04 is the weapon theme again, but with a neat chromatic/rhythmic accompaniment
3:35 is the ff7 main theme
3:41 is cloud's theme (or the overworld theme)
3:55 is a variation on this overworld theme in a minor key
4:15 is that variation from 1:15
4:27 is a theme everyone should know: the airship music
5:35 is the ff7 main theme again, and build up to what i thought was something fairly special
5:52 should be familiar to those who heard the flute play it in part 1, it's the planet's theme, i think
6:00 is the overworld theme
6:09 is my own john williams-like ending, because the thematic placement was mostly imitating his action music
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Thanks for clarifying that up Dan.
Like I said I agree with some of your criticisms of the piece. Like the brass usage - the trombone is definitely a major offender - however I still think it's not a big enough issue to decline. Secondarily a lot of mixes on this site suffer from string suction problems. Can we decline those too? A lot of problems that come with the use of samples come with the territory. My personal view is I'm willing to overlook some of those minor issues.
The dynamics issue, I agree with you fully in spirit. I too believe orchestral should be dynamic, especially helpful for tutti sections. However, I think our opinions here are personal beliefs. My trouble is, how can we criticize the lack of dynamics here so much so when a lot of cinematic composers, like say Bill Brown do the same?
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I'm not going to spend time for tit for tat exchanges beyond this. I respect your opinion as a judge and have relistened to the mix for a second round.
As with the first rounds of listening, I can definitely see and agree with what you're saying in some aspects - but ultimately my vote stands.
Yes, orchestral is one of the highest standards we place on the site, but our standards aren't that of holst, sugiyama, horner, or zimmer.
Wall of Sound issue is indeed there and I share your feelings. However this is again our personal view. If it's good enough for professional orchestral composers like Bill Brown - it's not good enough for OCR?
We have passed stuff with less arrangement value for my taste even recently, and I look to that as where the watermark is. I personally, like you prefer a more substantiative and subtly ornamented orchestra. But I'm not voting on my personal views alone.
A lot of work has been put into this mix, far more than the average mix even posted. I also think there is arrangement work here. This doesn't follow the originals note for note. I think the blending of several themes and integrated so well is also a bonus.
I'm not saying the mix is perfect, but what mix is? Also for me too much positives outweigh the bad. I would have mixed it personally more liberally, but comparing to even mixes we've passed even recently where it has been close arrangement - I personally can't deny this.
Educational background is important, you aren't alone in that and I respect yours. But education is not the final say.
You/others don't have to agree with me, but that's my vote.
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Gigasamples are so 2003. I don't know why the panel continually makes a big deal about it. It's behind the technology curve.
Ok, I agree the Trombone blat is really odd and out of place. It also sounds way upfront in the soundstage. Why is this? It would have sounded much better if the brass placement was more properly placed.
Using high quality samples is not easy. Understanding of articulations and proper attack/decay parts for certain notes is required. Jeremy does a fine job in this respect.
The mix itself, everything else (outside the trombone section) is incredible in my opinion. Fantastic arrangement, blending of themes, production. Jeremy knows his orchestration. Despite the main issue cited, this is way beyond the bar in my opinion. Direct post material.
YES.
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Definitely pretty cool at some parts, at others it just drags on for me, which is kind of odd since it's such a short mix. I feel this is underdeveloped for the kind of mix it is, please expand on this compositionally and as far as the arrangement goes.
NO
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Orchestration is more than just using orchestral instruments. There is a lack of understanding of compositional and soundstage issues here to create an orchestral set up. For one, there's no orchestral placement. Everything sounds centered.
There are tonal problems here too like around 1:40 with both ify notes and the brass just doesn't blend well in the mix with the strings.
Not bad at all, it's average. I suggest you work more on your style, orchestration and execution. Listen to more orchestral music and perhaps buy a book or two on the subject. Keep up the work. Orchestration is perhaps the most difficult musical art. Keep learning and better luck next time.
NO
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This is tricky, I was going to initially YES this, but on one hand I feel there's too many mixing issues here. Most importantly it's very cluttered, I think you need to go back and work on the volume levels. But on the other hand a lot of loud music of this nature has that same problem. For the genre this mix is intending to be, I think in general it's spot on. The ending section is extremely abrupt and almost just stops. Work on this section.
Even though I'm not really into this kind of music it's a guilty pleasure as analoq stated. I found it very enjoyable but enough issues are here to warrant resubmission. Please work on it a little more and resubmit.
Borderline NO. Fix the two main issues here and it's a YES from me.
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My main problem here is the lack of substance. We have a melody line, bass, and fx percussion. It makes for a very sparse sounding mix. Production is average.
Not bad, but I strongly suggest adding more meat (harmony, countermelody something and more effects processing) to this mix. NO
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There's a lot of sloppy string sustains here that make for unpleasant tones imo. Overall very strong arrangement though, but yeah those kick drums are really generic and annoying. Everything else is great.
YES
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This is nice. I would tone down the reverb a bit. I know what you're going for and it definitely does work. This very much sounds like music in forest scenes in games.
I agree with the ify notes Vigilante mentioned. One of the main problems here is all the clipping. It clips often, and throughout the mix. I am willing to overlook a few instances, but this is not acceptable.
I had no issues with the repetition and lack of build, it's perfectly valid for this kind of mix. But there's too many problems here as it is, to let it pass. Resubmission after working on the issues is recommended.
NO
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I do see what liontamer was saying about this mix's sedate pacing. I was going to initially no this, but after more listens this is too bizarre and too interesting to no.
The beginning starts out quite bizarrely with the lo-fi processing - not the mix's strong point. Additionally there are several sections of the mix that defy convention and perhaps words. I have no doubt people will be scratching heads over this one.
What swings this for me though is the very different, but cool arrangement of the theme. It's chaotic, confusing yet it still works.
Production is decent or subdecent.
Shnabubula continues making some pretty wierd but neat stuff. This definitely isn't for everyone, but the arrangement is too good to decline. It bears repeated listenings to really appreciate this unique mix.
Borderline Yes.
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Some of the finest piano work we have ever voted on in the panel. The arrangement and performance is spectacular. My only minor issue with the mix is the shortness of it. But it's understandable that a mix of this complexity and sophistication can be very difficult and daunting to lengthen. Amazing and without question, a YES.
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Repetitive, simplistic and the sounds are kind of annoying. This needs to go back to the drawing board. There's some cool ideas here, but the execution is very lacking. I suggest posting this in the WIP board and working on this more.
NO
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I haven't heard your earlier submission, but for me the main problem here was pretty much what prot mentioned. There is a lot of unpleasant notes and tonal combinations going on here in my opinion. Particularly around 1:30 with the synthy stabs on the right side.
I think your drumwork here is very well done to great. However I don't like how the mix was produced. Everything is way too loud, and the percussion is so sharp (2:29 for example). Some EQ roll-offs in the treble section in my opinion are warranted, and/or putting some reverb on them to soften it.
With more work, this is a Yes from me. But as it is, borderline NO.
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Not a very smooth transition point from orchestral to electronica. I did like the parts where the synth bells carried the mix. It's hard to tell from the stream, but I'm hearing a lot of audio crackling problems. Why did you make this only available by stream? Needs more compositional and polishing work. Close to a yes, but borderline NO.
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There's portions of this that are inspired by the score to The Piano, and I think of the overall style bearing some similarity to some of what GrayLightning's done, which is hopefully taken favorably.
I definitely can hear some similarity with my style and definitely reminds me of Nyman's The Piano score *a favorite of mine*. The original was always one of my favorite themes, I can say your arrangement definitely does justice to the original and more.
Exceptional technical work Dave. Love the tonal combinations in this mix. Production is stellar. I love the largeness and yet at the same time, intimacy of the mix (I'll have to ask you later about what reverb you used here
). Enjoyable, sophisticated and definitely my favorite mix of yours. -
Krispy Fallthrough
This is a remix of Aquatic Ambience from Donkey Kong Country. I have been listening to an increasing amount of cinematic scores and I think the influence shows through here. I wanted to take this well known theme and portray in a unique way becaise we have all heard this song regurgitated a million times (my personal favorite parts being the beginning and end). People have commented that it doesnt feel finished at the end, and I agree, but after running into numerous sampler troubles I decided it was best to just move on
.name: Krispy
email: Krispy3000@gmail.com
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There are definite development issues here. The first half of the mix does sound aimless. There's no atmosphere, no emotion. The second half is much more interesting.
The production values in this mix are also below the bar. It really sounds like a 4MB GM font. We're not asking for studio quality work as a prerequisite, but this just sounds dull especially when many 8MB or greater soundfonts sound much better than this and are so very accessible.
Arrangement itself is decent. Expand on it more, especially put more meat into this mix like in the second half. Decent, not bad.
NO
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I agree with Darke, this is not overrideable. Let's not be overzealous.
Excellent idea, poor execution. The first half to me sounds like one mass of sound - in a negative way. Everything is clashing. Work on panning separation and spread out the sounds. Work on the volume levels. Let the leads stand out much more - it blends too much with everything else. There is no depth here as all the instruments sound like it's coming from the same spot. Also make this longer, expand on it more.
The arrangement itself is interesting, but some more with either expanded instrumentation and expanded melody, harmony would be better.
Audio issues like at :52 and 1:49. This happens a number of times in the mix. Very few probably notice it, but if can be fixed it should.
Definitely work on it again, and resubmit. There's a lot of potential in this mix.
NO.
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Third. As I mentioned in the above paragraph, Reason simply doesn't sound that good. That is, the sounds are rather muddled, the quality is poor. Is there any way to make it sound better? Am I doing something wrong, is there something I should know about this?
Third, again, Reason sounds fine.
Look at some example files that came with it, or check out my mixes I have posted as rns files on my site in the tutorials section.Yeah SGX covered this one well. I agree with what he said completely. Also Reason sounds great. But unless you know what you're doing compositionally and production wise then nothing will sound good. Reason is capable of professional results and in my opinion rivals $2000 high end synth workstations. Keep learning - no one said making music was easy.
Easily answered question: Can Reason use VSTI, specifically Slayer 1?No. Reason is not a vsti host.
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well im sure i have a newb question its more of just a minor problem i think. i have a fruitland (FL) synth. its not the full version.I cant seem to import midi files.I mean i can import them but they dont play.Ive tried everything to get them to work.If anyone can possibily help me with this problem ill take on tons of request.If anyone can help just private message me so i get it faster.thanks
-kingchris-
There's a FL thread for these questions.
I'll delete this and your post in a day or two. Follow the link. http://www.ocremix.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=7588
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I'm borderline on Paragon X9's mix. Digital Coma brought up some good points here on why I'm torn with this mix. Some parts are full and interesting, then some parts are dull for this kind of genre. Drumwork is really tite though.
As far as the eqing issues cited by the other judges. First of all, that may be all well and good to boost the 14-16K range by 20 db in Winamp, but this will seriously damage a piece like this in any music program (FL, sequencer, etc).
One should question why the frequencies are resulting this way. Instead of boosting, I think one needs to work on cutting rather than boosting, also work on the mixing (per channel eq, volume, etc.) aspect of this mix. A more simplistic cure would be to cut the bottom end some more for better balance. Also, there really is no room to boost this any more as it is, since the loud sections are already hitting the ceiling.
Finally, I must make a slight complaint about the loudness here. About half of the mix is hovering with an rms of -7 to -9 db. Yes, I know it's electronica, but I don't feel that's an excuse for being so loud, so long. Personal taste and a controversial issue though so I'll move on. I'll leave it to say that Electronic Musician and other reputable music magazines have covered this issue well in the last two years.
Looking past some of the minor issues, I still thought this was a cool mix overall. It's not the most sophisticated (beyond the great drumwork), but everything everything together just works and the arrangement is good. Overall, I enjoyed it enough for a borderline YES.
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1. Die Hard Trilogy 'I Love The Airport'
YES - too much similarity to the original is the main issue here.
2. Ys 'Beat of Terror'
YES
This isn't a rip. I know the theme well. There are minor additions here and there. Like the staccato rhythm of the strings. Yura always does a great job with his execution. But this is too conservative a take of the mix and is not arranged enough for our comfort, but this isn't a mere rip in my opinion.
3. Command & Conquer: Tiberian Sun 'PharoTeknical'
YES
Great job, and great production, but unfortunately is more of an upgrade arrangement wise.
4. Streets of Rage 2 'Funkdreamer'
YES
I find this tricky. There's some arrangement going on here and GY did a great job here with the production department. More arrangement work here would have been great, because everything else was in place for something awesome. Kind of borderline on this, but I sadly am slanted to vote for removal.
5. Donkey Kong Country 'Strolling The Mines'
YES
This one was definitely a hard one for me to decide on. Both sides of the fence are definitely feasible, and I don't have a strong views either way with this mix. I have no issue with it using the same/sameish banks of the original. I don't think that's an issue here at all. I'm going to slant to vote for removal only because I can agree with some of the previous statements made where the underlying work here is not integrated/related enough with the original. Cool piece for what it is though, but a valid arrangement by the site's standards? Probably not.
6. Usagi Yojimbo 'Homage to Amida Buddha'
NO
Yeah there's a lot that borrows from the original, but there's a lot of additions here that just work. I'm going to say keep the mix as there is enough unique material interwoven in the mix. If this were on the panel I'd probably borderline reject it, but as the lockdown rules are more lenient I'm going to vote to borderline keep it.
7. F-Zero GX 'Dr. Stuard (Jeff & Toad Air Team Challengers)'
YES
I loved this, but unfortunately I did not have access to the source material initially. Dissapointed with CJ. I expected more. Too much reliance on the original.
8. Earthbound 'Dreaming on Distant Shores'
NO
I'm voting to keep this. For the reasons DJP eloquently mentioned. I don't know how one could arrange a theme like this without doing what Rellik has done. The question that we might have to ask ourselves is where do we put a limit on source materials? If the source material was 10 seconds, how can we really judge that for arrangement purposes. This mix really pushes the limit for me on what something can be arranged. The original was also really trashy (I have no doubt that some drug induced 7 year old composed this theme.
) Rellik did a good job with the source material. 9. Final Fantasy 10 'The Final Summoning'
NO
I never liked this one to be honest. This one was really pushing the limit for me of what an arrangement is. But considering the source material, it's argueable on how this could have been arranged otherwise. I feel this has some similarity with the Rellik issue. Questionable ratio of original/arrangement, but it's not a clear violation for me anyway - so I'm going to vote to keep it.
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I agree with the sum of the votes in general. But not when breaking down to some specific statements here. There is a shopping list of issues here that does not include pickles and cheese.
As a huge fan of the series, I know the music by heart. This is conservative in my book, but no where enough to call it almost a cover. I do not think it is passable though in the arrangement department. I suggest the mixer strongly reconsider resubmitting with more work done to change things up a little more. Change the structure here and there more. Change the meter or rhythm some more.
There's some coherence and execution problems here. Some transitions aren't as smooth as it could be.
I do agree there are some questionable notes here too. Those need to be fixed. Such as 1:43/44 with the organ.
I really loved the whole style of this piece though. The instrumentation and percussion is interesting. The organ fits in my opinion. I also really like the deep, thunderous percussion here.
Fix this up and resubmit. I really hope to hear more from you in the future. NO for now.
OCR01267 - *YES* Final Fantasy 9 'Hunter's Community Chest'
in Judges Decisions
Posted
I think malcos really wants to vote YES. Go for it buddy.