ShadowRaz

Yes, it might be true indeed that if making remixes, especially a lot of them, then people might just start expecting more of remixes and therefore aren't interested about originals, considering they just drown among the 'bigger names' so to speak which you remixed. But what if making only few, wouldn't it get you on the map perhaps but not necessarily standardized as remixer only? Both of you have quite accurate, as in i agree, and similar answers in fact. About remixing for example how it could be good but not necessarily in some precise ways. Funny to ask this btw on a site which has remix on its name... Sorry for not participating on your game music remixing in general btw... i still like your community in general even though i mostly produce original stuff and have done only few exceptions on remixes and they had nothing to do with video games. Then on remakes you are also correct both, they are still nothing more than learning grounds at most for benefit on sound design for example as i have seen it, in such tracks which have sound designs, on orchestral/instrumental compositions much less of any use as it is basically making a cover and not even that instead of remake though virtual instruments still require certain amount of tweaking sometimes, still they be at most some orchestration practice, otherwise just copying and yes, some desperate aim for popularity. The label thing actually has made me ponder a lot more than any of these 3 others, and seeing such answers from you and @Meteo Xavier in general, just boosts my already negative feelings towards attempting to join record labels, assuming i could even get in as i think my style doesn't fit that properly anything precisely as it varies. Rarely you hear tempo and style changes (for example orchestral intro, shifts into dubstep/dnb, shifts into house etc) in music like i do on many projects of mine for example, and no labels want that crap, though i personally think it is a bit unique thing to perform such hybrids and hot damn is it FUN I gotta look into this Youtube channel thing a bit. I too have btw, seen artists thank the one who made the re-upload on a mix. Not sure is it in a way thanks as they asked would they add it and then got it through and then came to thank publicly on comments as well and not just privately when asking to add in first place, or is it in a way that the upload fella has found it online while was searching for music and chosen by him/herself to add it and the artist then finds it also either randomly or more likely when searching him/herself. Also i'm actually amazed that you John haven't heard of such.. i'm playing music almost 24/7, as right now a mix of such is playing on background while writing here, and also when gaming unless the game soundtrack is heavy, but on Battlefield 1 and game like Bloodborne which consume hours at a time, they be having minimal music, and therefore i boost the joy by music mixes, similar to when browsing internet in general. So if aren't watching something like tv-shows or movies from Netflix or like now started re-watching Scrubs on DVD since my Netflix was cancelled due to not having enough on my Bank account for the 10€ automatic monthly fee, then music is playing. No quiet moment at my lonely crib.

Seriously guys though.. i've asked several questions and would like some answers/opinions/knowledge if you have any ! I have posted so much of my original music already that i'm starting to ponder that it is becoming pointless to upload anything worth shit before knowing how to proceed properly in the music world outside of own enjoyment of it. 1. To add the continuation i wrote, now in a nutshell, assuming that it would be some preferred genre (for people and their taste in music in general) remix of the original, and as i could actually attempt several styles, that leads to a follow up question, which would be advised? House? Future Bass? As those are quite popular are they not? Or stick to my own style as in do what i want to keep it more personal and unique in a way which would likely go into some orchestral or dubstep/dnb stuff 2. In that way wouldn't people find you easier? Although often if making such, the people who are interested are the ones who would want me to SHARE the freaking project, what fun is in that? Do you ever share your projects to others? I sure as hell wouldn't want to, i wouldn't actually be opposed to if someone attempted to reverse-engineer my own music however as long as they don't use it as bases for their music as in copycat way as i said already. 3. Record Labels, yay or nay? 4. I mean often some of those don't even ask permission, but couldn't anyone still ask if some bit more popular channels would add your music in their mixes? In a way that they still credit you and therefore might raise your popularity in a way?

Oh, i did not and do not then understand completely what you mean, but assumed on the reply something that me as a non-native speaker would not understand with the word monitor relating to you headphones as in monitoring the sound or something... SO... do you mean you actually listened with some internal small speakers your computer screens have? I mean i'm not sure are there some really high-def expensive ones of such but i assume that wouldn't be very reliable source to test treble necessarily perhaps? Edit. On second thought before you even answer, i just thought of it in a way that perhaps that style output would indeed give way different perspective as those small internal speakers on monitors (tv's in my case) are heavy on treble precisely but lacking mids and have almost no bass and therefore you hear only treble in stronger sense but not in a way as if you would turn off / eq dial down mid and low frequencies.

Yes that is exactly what i already thought of being the problem that might got forgotten bit too easily as i stated already Then Didn't see such button... should dig in even more to the program to find everything but in following video i uploaded now for this purpose, you can clearly hear how much the Reference 4.dll plugin within the studio as well (not just the system wide exe file which doesn't apply to FLS at all as Asio seems to mess it up) lessens the overall sound output level: On that i also am testing the Parametric EQ2 option i thought of, and also Linear Phase EQ (of which i have never heard of, well, you learn something new everyday) with FLS internal Fruity Convolver. Reference 4 seems to also have the option for linear phase vs zero latency.. not sure what's the difference since didn't hear difference with quick testing. The projects of mine i test vary in style to test the effect as in house with basic bright saw melody, the 'Time Traveler' for orchestral testing as it came out already on this topic and then a dubstep drop i made on an old project of mine called 'Whatever' to create myself a really personal ringtone for my phone. I still prefer producing and the sounds without using ANY of these EQ correction options for DT880 standard output. Except for the bass only, that seriously requires some boosting on the headphones output. Agree, as the low bass is kind of weak on standard output of DT880, on this it shows its affection on my production as i then have started boosting the bass output for the rendered audio file instead of using a bass boost to balance the weak standard output of the headphones without it showing on the render. But that is just it, there was no calibration at all for the headphones output at the time i finished and uploaded the track some time ago, as i basically just now heard that the standard output might have too shrill treble that maybe should be balanced depending on opinion, and therefore, i produced the track with the bright treble already coming through and hence did not start boosting the high frequencies on the project itself whilst mixing and mastering. But as you said, you had no calibration on your test either and still you hear weak treble so it indeed might be my own personal preference of not having the track "screaming" at me... but aren't your headphones the 250ohm version? Are you using some sort of amp or as is? I mean wouldn't it sound completely different with your no calibration and mine as the impedance difference might affect quite a lot still? edit. FYI, i use Maximus sometimes to isolate especially bass to play solo on master channel to attempt hearing the overall bass of the track within the project better, though this could be done in several other ways as well. At least that is easy to remember turn off when it indeed isolates everything else if the solo button is on. Reference 4 dll seemed to have some automatic option for it to not affect the render when i first threw it into master channel, however, i would anyway turn it off completely for render, should i use it in the first place while producing

Yep i indeed tested only my own tracks whilst trying the program for the first time yesterday. But you are absolutely right that i should reference others tracks. And i tested all 3 you linked to me. The 1st one, orchestral, sounds better without the programs EQ for DT880. I mean the sounds are in fact clearer and sound more realistic in my opinion as the treble is stronger, however it is a bit softer to listen with the program on dialing them down and i in fact do hear the mid frequencies more clearly to balance out the over-all sound, yet can't shake the feeling that it sounds a bit odd if using the program. On 2nd, your Glitch Hop, the bass sounds really good with the program on and no wonder when it boosts the naturally weak bass of the headphones. But assuming because i have gotten used to shrill trebles without Reference 4 on, the track is otherwise better without it on in my opinion. As in this case i would use the program (if it even can be used in such manner, EQ2 in general) only for boosting bass. The 3rd one is really heavy on trebles indeed. On this case i would keep the program running through the entire song as is, as it boosts the basses of the track but indeed soften out the rather too bright treble which almost starts breaking ears in heavy listening. On a note about the program also, when it is on, i have to put the PC output sound to max and it still doesn't get loud so it somehow lessens the output signal a lot. I usually need to barely keep volume up to halfway to have it loud enough without the program running. On another note, i have no idea how to shut it down "properly" as i haven't found such button. It always just goes into the background and i have to kill the process completely from task manager. On a EQ2 note, this is basically what the Reference 4 does to the audio, though not in such smooth line manner. Almost exactly +6dB on bass, a bit less for high mid and about -6dB spikes at 10kHz and couple thousand less from that: Btw, as you pointed out about changing the amount it affects, at least this way you could do anything one wants to it. But for a good test of my tracks, you could listen this for example: Melodic dubstep which has my usual legato violin ensemble composition on start with orchestral drums, and which also has indeed melody saw sound design, electronic dubstep/dnb beats, growls and drones, bassline and even vocal chops As i tested the track with the program on, the violin melody sounds quite nasty compared to when Reference 4 is not on, to dial down the trebles. This is more recent production/composition of mine (though this was still old project, it was barely started and i finished it recently) by using fully virtual instruments, and it has that electric guitar lead that kind of stands out, however, when i tested this track in my car much later from this upload, i noticed that the guitar lead somehow drowned into other voices. What would be your take on this on using DT880 without Reference 4 or matching EQ?

Yeah agree that it might overcompensate. I mean, when you think about it, if the headphones standard sound output was so off from "standard" sound output, i think i would have heard the "through tube" (as in too weak treble and strong mid) sound on legato violins especially (which sounded worst with the program running, on other note, as i tested couple of dubstep tracks of mine which often have those violins still, the growl/drone/screech sound designs seemed to sound better balanced and therefore i should dial down the treble of those in general slightly within the projects perhaps) on other sound outputs as i still have tested the tracks on several places such as my car hi-fi and the computer speaker set i have, rarely even the cheap earbud headset i bought. When the trial runs out, i think i'll just make a similar Parametric EQ 2 saved mixer channel state (as it is easy to re-apply on project with click and drag, to master channel or even individual channels) as in adjust on a single or 2 of EQ2 effect plugins the trebles a bit down, bass up and mids even less up than bass, IF i see it useful, which i can apply on the projects themselves on master, and then turn off those when rendering so that it won't apply to the audio file, only when making the track as in i can correct the headphones sound output with it alone. No necessary external programs required. But i truly have gotten used to the output i now have. In general, if you had patience to listen to my music with your perspective.. can you hear that i have too weak trebles, and too strong mids, and weak or strong bass? As i have produced without knowledge that the headphones might or might not have the standard sound output a bit off

Talking of labels... I have actually tried to send demonstrations of my music twice to record labels. First was Heavy Artillery Records, they were not interested and no wonder since the demo was crap i know it even though i'm not fully entirely sure as i don't remember anymore which 1 i sent there (maybe 'Nightfall'? of my tracks. At least that was total crap shit early production from me and i think it was at that point when i tried). Second was Monstercat but considering how big that one is, no wonder they were not interested of my demo ('Through the Darkness'). Labels (especially bigger ones) are still selective most definitely about who they accept into their amidst, as they want to keep their image good as well. Also the style of music they play is usually limited to some precise few (sub)genres at most. That in mind as i produce a lot of different styles as you can hear if you were to browse my crap, should i and could i sign into several different labels at once? What do you guys think of labels being the door to some earnings for producers? I mean, don't labels pay for you to produce to them and then they possibly play the music in some of their stuff like a stream or otherwise distribute and advertise you as an artist amongst their selection of artists? Does it pay good at all? Or does that too depend entirely on the sales on the distribution sites as in the label doesn't pay you but instead just advertises you a bit as they get to play your music and stuff like that? And won't they kind of then force you to produce what they want instead of being free to do what you want? As in couldn't i then post my random crap to my own channels and should stick precisely to keeping the image of the label i would be in? I think this is true, as you in your whole reply are pointing out, they basically control the music style that becomes popular as they then can market into the radios and crap like that, to public in general, which results in people hearing the music enough and therefore developing a standard that "this is music". Still it's not like they control people's minds or anything, i mean all have personal taste too, but still isn't it highly limited amongst majority (not all) of people to the different labels that play the different styles that different people like with their taste, instead of people rooting for some small.time artists who aren't played in mainstream basically. Then there are only few exceptions who root for small-time artists but aren't those rare? There is also the peer pressure as in people often want to belong in some groups and therefore if many despise something precisely, others just go along with it even if they secretly think otherwise, as they don't want to isolate themselves from these people and be left alone and laughed on about their opinion. What do you guys think of those music mix Youtube channels then? So called 'wanna-be' record labels, as in who, i assume, are some single person or couple perhaps who post others music into their channel in a mix or maybe more rarely nowadays individually which has a lot of others music as well, i mean in a way that in that way you could get heard without signing into a label per-se, but don't you usually benefit the channel more than yourself mostly? As in people just listen to that channels all music and hence you drown in there among others, especially if the channel doesn't advertise you as the artist properly, some of these don't even add the names of the artists and tracks that are playing.

Ok so, i installed the free trial version of Reference 4, got now 21 days left, there actually was a preset for the needed EQ for precisely DT880 250 Ohm version and it looks exactly like the blue line on your picture of the headphones average frequency response. So i put that on even if i have the 32Ohm version (there wasn't a preset for that), only to discover that it made the sound on my headphones really weird. Assuming i have now gotten used to the same sound output on my headphones, it is understandable obviously, however, that precise preset makes treble so weak and high-mids so strong, that anything with usually high frequencies (say, virtual legato violins as i tested my own tracks) almost sounds like coming through some tube to me, which i would categorize as worse output than the original without the program on use. I think i'll try my earbuds and the pc speaker set with the program as well. There is this huge on/off button on the programs, so testing what it does to the sound is easy. Wouldn't i (if using the program) then automatically start boosting high frequencies too much, of the violins for example, and end up with screaming outcome? Second thing to say is that basically what the program seems to do is automatic equalization which could be done with Parametric EQ 2 on FLS itself for example, am i not correct? So if i wanted slightly lower treble and boost mids and bass, i can do that on Master or individual Mixer channels in the DAW itself however often in it, the rendered file sounds different than within the project. Only difference still would be that i can use the program externally from fls which means i can eq balance basically any output sound such as when listening others music on internet, but there are a lot of similar programs, hell, even windows on its own has EQ effects. I haven't still properly dug into the program, as in don't know how to properly use it nor all its functions as i now just tested the said preset on the program, as in is there an option to manually adjust the EQ the program does? Not sure can i do everything even with the trial, expensive program though.

I assume you mean we are steering way far off-topic into some relationship talk and psychology etc, but do not know what the abbreviation PPR stands for. I tried Wikipedia and even Urban Dictionary, the ones that popped up do not make sense. But on bases of that assumption i suppose you are right. Let's keep it Music Business related mostly if posted here. I mean not many have started replying at all about anything, and also have unanswered stuff on many things i have asked for opinions, perspective etc

The last sentence is in fact though the "find your level" partner fact, let's look at this in bigger scale, as in hardly celebrities for example with big accomplishments of some sort and hence net worth are together with someone who hasn't made any significant things to match the others at least in certain aspects. But still i suppose it is commonly the males precisely who have done big that "score" a "trophy wife" spoken in common terms i have heard during my years, am i right? As in usually the successful males have less "successful" (considered business/financial world-wise, but usually these types of wives are quite beautiful as women tend to be in general more concerned about beauty than men about looking handsome) females as partners as you pointed out. However, on feminist side of looking these things, sometimes women aren't appreciated or taken in account enough with their accomplishments, ideas and hence it has become a stereotype for them to be such way, is this not true? "Me, man, me hunt food, you woman, cook food and look pretty" :D

Dammit man, again with the controversial feeling with the truth, this part of your reply not only amazed me from the professional outlook of it as the "being able to provide and has future" is a huge factor of being desirable man for the wanting to settle down ladies as i thought already on one of my long ago blog posts, but also made the dream of having it all, as in being free to experiment as musician at home yet also in mutual love with a woman with bright settle down future ahead, crash and burn like a zeppelin behemoth on Battlefield 1, oh the humanity. However, isn't it a bit two-sided thing? If a woman expects a man to have it all, doesn't it mean that such counter stuff should be expected of the woman as well? Not same things necessarily but yeah... Equalism bitch. This matter is off-tracking already too much perhaps though very important still. Doesn't this then mean basically according to some women (or how you pointed out.. all?) i should find indeed a steady good job to work in for to be able to even think a woman in my life or the more preferred option to me would be to find a woman who is more about the closeness than future plans all together, i mean not all women are the same and some might not be as aware of even their own future as i'm not sure of mine, i would think of it in a way that i find love first, then start settling down when and if we both want to start a steady income family as we are comfortable and care of each other so much that we want to spend life together and without me relying on her to provide (yes this can go both ways too, not all men are the head of household income always but i would still want to provide as much as i can if needed) should she have a job or even want to be a stay-at-home mother (in fact, i'm such a person that being a stay-at-home father sounds nice, stereotypes often are confusing people too much, saying this as small time feminist and equalist) whereas i didn't have any basic income in a way yet at that point although the government supports living in certain amounts at my country (on same matter, cultural differences are big on several factors actually as well, like many women respect men here with regular jobs instead of looking it in a "gold digger" way, i still assume it is like that everywhere), however certain things as good jobs still might not come at command still if not having something already, but at least i have certain amount of job experience and i think i could even possibly get back (not sure though, but i did my stuff efficiently and without errors in there) to my old job eventually if truly asked with genuine persistent positive attitude as so far i haven't asked since i don't want back there as i don't need to yet, or otherwise the XP of it and obviously completed occupational school degree helps on regular job hunt still. But i think i'm slightly defending still the situation as many women don't appreciate the "i would do this and that" attitude but instead look on what one is already, but again, that is quite demanding depending on their own future plan and what the woman wants to do. I mean you are right in a way that men generally don't necessarily care what the lady does for a living as long as she is happy, but still a bit harsh for women to expect men to have it all from the start, personally as i pointed out already still, the mere happiness of love would motivate me go to work in regular job to provide instead of continuing with my own crap, her and the mutual happiness is more important than only own though own happiness is her happiness and hence.. yeah you catch my drift.

@AngelCityOutlawOk you hat the nail in the head with your reply. Exactly the amount of music composers and producers especially boosted by the age of computers and DAWs, kind of explains the amount of talented ones that aren't as big as some others. More musicians than is even needed even if music is on demand on many things. Yes I suppose it completely depends on the publicity of the performer how much they are paid still, the more famous the name, the more people are interested about buying tickets to shows of any kind that have the performer perhaps and hence the performer earns more as does the place where it is performed, you know paying more for the performer to raise the artists interest enough to even attend as they start having some standards instead of doing anything they can, so almost being selective and demanding more too might do something and not working with effort for half free, however not turning down stuff either especially if not well "known" enough yet as smaller things are step stones to bigger things usually as some leap to glory would be rare wouldn't it? Though not unheard of. I read from quora actually (not sure how trustful some responses there are but usually are still professional enough) that some dj's get from few thousand to tens of thousands per gig which would on my living financials supply a year of VERY comfortable living easy, as in triple time living or 3 years of living the same way if talking of 30k for example.. even if it would be 10-20 gigs to get that those are ridiculously big sums for such small work. But the thing is i never want to gig, ever. Being on parties / big crowds like that would give me just anxiety and also i have serious stage fright and being on the road, traveling to places is not my thing as i have never even experienced it and have gotten used to being at home all the time. SO.... to compare it to my career wishes sort of, This rule still also applies to film scoring, should one see ZImmer as the composer, you would expect the soundtrack to be epic and also the movie, and they often are depending on taste too of course. And therefore he gets paid more to create to their film, but say some fella you have basically never heard of, even if he or even she would create his/her own unique (not being a copycat) music which is freaking delicious, does the same and gets the music on some film or something, doesn't get the same pay still as you pointed out, not until the name of the composer has grown further and it might not even do that, even if the film turns out to be big or something like that. So as you said that there is luck factor too, you are absolutely right. Also, some people might just still accomplish (whether it is accidental or on purpose) to do something unique and/or memorable more than others that make them fall into peoples minds more easily than some others and therefore people just know them, usually they are some precise "hit songs" for example on musicians, on some cases it might be some other unknown factors like some weird image, not to be disrespectful and point out names, think of this as critic, but just look at the weird dj Marshmello and his costume, whilst usually having (no offense) not that special music at all (some basic notes, rather trap style beats while some other sings some supposedly meaningful lyrics for the music to fade in the bg and then the usual vocal chops which aren't really that hard to orchestrate with), and same image thing goes for Deadmau5 in the end though i personally liked his music back in the day (when i wasn't as aware of what producing such music is) as much as making a home made mau5 mask to try on and keep on shelf otherwise. Both of mentioned seem to be really huge. And yet here i am, the more i progress as a producer and composer, the less i respect certain big artists. I'm just saying this as a producer who has experimented on house, trap for example and have gone to the heavier sound design side of dubstep and dnb which requires some serious planning on both sound designs, their fine-tuning, and designing and composing with them to get smooth enough sound, that compared to some repetitive melodies playing over and over or vocal chops and vocals and stuff like that makes me rethink the whole progress of certain really big artists with their skill areas and their way to become big. Just being truthful. Let's say making a remix would get you out there as some people search the original track they know and notice a different spin on the same song and get interested, wouldn't that be advised then huh? Well it still doesn't always depending of the quality of it and taste of others as many people like to listen some happy mood music instead of more grim or melancholic stuff but i could actually attempt both though i'm not feeling happy as easy and hence it doesn't mirror into such music usually though can improvise such music but i'm not necessarily feeling it. I haven't made many remixes but could as i think i have progressed on my skill areas enough already to finally get better outcome than back in the day when i had a short passion to perform such one after another and most of them turned out to be horrible. The best one was this and even this is slightly improved version of the original remix project of mine: 'Walking in the Air' Remix What do you guys think of remaking? I mean that shit isn't obviously innovative at all, and might be kind of disrespectful to the original artist as in to show how one can reverse-engineer the track and perhaps match their skill if not even further since it actually requires a lot more sound design and fine tune skills and on some cases careful listening to match some little stuff too, than doing own 'what you can' stuff but doesn't need imagination at all, so then again it is just copying the original so what is the harm? Is it disrespectful? I mean as long as obviously mentioning the track being a remake and not starting on using that project as bases of claimed "own" music which would be being a copycat. Then if steering into This is rather interesting as i actually have self-diagnosed a small depression for myself actually, though not in a self-destructive way, but instead just not being that happy about my situation and future plans and any crap like that and feeling anxiety and unpleasant often and thinking how things should be better to live happy especially relationship-wise as i long for a woman into my life (man would i want to just snuggle up with the love of my life, squeeze her tight and still gently in my arms whilst she does basically the same as she wants to be as close as possible, both out of pure love, i said actually long ago on DSF Ninja forums as a metaphor how i am a snuggly teddy bear, but without snuggles, am in a world of mistrust and hate, which would mean basically depression but now getting off-topic again), though still am definitely having my moments of enjoyment, and self-diagnoses are just that. But for me personally, i don't think lack of "success" on music is the cause, but instead loneliness and financial trouble and some general future plans plus some weird instinct or rather paranoid anxiety of feeling that i'm being spied on / be more known (being stared at, talked behind my back) than it shows but that might be a but egoistic actually i mean honestly who the f*** would care to perform such :D, but one huge factor is that i was bullied and especially discriminated back in the day in schools for being odd duck and hence the general 'not worthy for anyone and inferior to others and people talk shit of me in secret' crap grew on me as i witnessed first hand how superficial and/or hating anything out of their "normal" image, some people can be. But on being a musician, The very fact that i am aware of how i could basically remake easily some popular music and find my fully own music still a bit more advanced (in some ways especially though not in all, as some are talented on making "simple" music still smoother/more for peoples liking than i could) already than theirs, is a show of actually having better self-confidence which results in this weird feeling of being slightly proud of myself which mirrors into a better mood actually. Also as on the blog post i linked on the start up message of this topic and on my old blog post titled 'Music' at the home website of this artist name, as i have said, i started out on being a musician for own interest and as hobby, not for some aim of success on it at all. Hell even some names of several tracks (for example 'Through the Darkness' 'Redemption' 'Salvation' 'The Ugly Duckling' 'The Beast's) are a reference how it actually helps me to deal with crap to produce and compose instead of causing it.. You can actually read about these more precisely on my 'A Blast From The Past' blog posts (On Duckling i actually wrote on Bandcamp's upload track info more precisely) where i explain some such stuff about the tracks but not in their full explanation still, just bits and pieces, link to it on my signature or the first post of this topic goes straight to blog and then just clicking another post there, this only if you got interested but the titles alone explain quite nicely of what i mean. This is actually quite an eye opener and rather motivational, and yet also depressing at the same time The whole paragraph of which i quoted the end only. Nice job fella to get such controversial feeling with hard facts. Some people tend to avoid talking straight if it would somehow make others think of them badly, feel bad or something like that, and some just drive their own agenda on every single 'public' stuff the say/post etc as in either to make themselves look better or sometimes misinform and stomp down others. I don't (think) i do that, as i tend to say/post what i have in my mind though usually in shortened versions and missing stuff to keep them short(er) but still this post alone still has perhaps a small disrespectful part and certain amount of own linked stuff in it but i don't think i'm still advertising myself as i'm referencing as it is easy as i am still me, and have opinions. But yeah... The very fact of being stuck in some job i would despise doing, only to earn some money so i can live, which i wouldn't enjoy that much anyway then, does not feel very motivational. I think (again) that love would still make life go somewhere so to speak, though not necessarily in musical way as in being known artist for good productions, money way as in being financially wealthy to live all fancy or accomplishment way as in contributing something really meaningful or useful for human race in general. As in not doing anything out of the ordinary, but gosh jolly would love make happy and that is the meaning of life from my point of view.. And if you are happy, then you are going somewhere. And being happy in such way still doesn't mean one couldn't fulfill and/or accomplish other stuff, hell it might even help as you get inspired by love and motivated by happiness. So i agree on not giving up. Even if music does remain as personal hobby until death, it will always be close to my heart.

I assume those average salaries are still untaxed, and even still those sums are BIG. But take John Williams, though my mind has not comprehended it properly on movies and such and it has just gone by on credits for my shame, it still seems slightly familiar as if i still have seen it so yeah.. Star Wars themes, freaking Indiana Jones, everyone knows those man though can't understand why didn't i know the composer for them properly. But he seems to fall into same category like Hans Zimmer (according to the website you linked) of whom i remember hearing and seeing on the credits of the music as i'm quite a movie watcher still like 'Inception' is big. Reaching those heights still would require some sick skills and connections out there in the world perhaps to get music out of own channel. But to make those average salaries, where on earth does one work in such way? As in there can't possibly be a job available on some regular website: "Composer and Producer wanted for full time work, apply now with demos of your work" ahaha :D You know.. since there isn't... especially on my country as i have searched the usual available jobs site for säveltäjä, musiikin tuottaja, ääni suunnittelija etc which are my language translations of composer, music producer, sound designer. Is it even a constant income i mean doesn't it depend a lot on the demand of skills and productions? Btw, talking of 'Nero' as i now listened the video twice (that's good stuff, i like) whilst writing this post, i totally got inspired by his drop style from the remix of Muse - Follow Me: 'Morning Cycle' on which drops are heavily inspired by Nero's production But yeah, if talking of experimental in general my style is focused usually on orchestral/instrumental dubstep, but not always: More recent Virtual Orchestral track of mine with the Electric Guitar style i was talking about Orchestral Dubstep Orchestral Dubstep/DnB hybrid House with a lot of basic Sound Designs and also Virtual Solo Violin for lead, this be the track on which i got my 1st and only donation as it was bought Virtual Orchestral Then i realized that i should just link the Bandcamp channel in general to hear rather all music production styles from me (though those are not all) instead of filling the post with individual links since there are a lot of those and also have links connecting more links on my freaking signature on this site, bloody hell, no need to link too much of my stuff, and oh boy is this turning out to be a long link and have link word many times :D But that is precisely it, film scoring would pay off perhaps even if not performing but instead only creating and not necessarily in such manner that you would get tired of creating them, but in order for people, such as me, to reach such heights, i have no idea how to proceed and do my skills even match such. For example, yesterday i was playing and heard cool music, checked out the mix i chose to play on Youtube for background, found a link to the composer of all the tracks in it: http://www.jacktrammellmusic.com/ i mean seriously this guy for example has some serious talent still, and just look at the film score selection on trailers on his site, and yet don't recall ever hearing of the guy. I don't believe i can even reach such demand of productions, nor especially John Williams / Hans Zimmer level net worth I mean i'm completely self learned and compose by my natural pitch-ear entirely on the piano roll and choose what to use in same manner, however have been influenced obviously by all the music i've heard over my life still. Would going to a musical school assist still in the end? I mean i'm not ruling it out and have thought of it in all seriousness but exactly the amount of more talented musicians all around the globe makes me doubt should i be wasting time and effort on a school in some town i would hate to live in especially as i have no one to live with (as in haven't found love which would muffle out many of the own living comfortably requirements as i would be comfortable with her, but now i'm totally getting off-topic), only to end up nowhere further than i am now. This is difficult matter to think of especially on my own, and hence i started this forum topic anyway.

Yeah but that is precisely what i meant, the music business favors the performers more who might be touring hard and living life on the road. But it doesn't necessarily favor the ones like i am, as in only a creator/designer, a producer and a composer. As in buying only music is dying business isn't it? I make the music, but never ever want to get up on stage to play my music for a crowd as dj, which would still fall into my category of performing live as all my music is electronic. Though a lot of my creations i composed with virtual instrument libraries and would not fit to a "dj" or anything like that, but instead be more fitting for live orchestra to possibly play though not sure how it would work as for example they are still hybrids of some sound designs and for example orchestra plus a single guitarist playing my riff compositions that would be funny. Is it btw unheard of for electronic instrumental composers to get their stuff being played by live instruments on some orchestra shows? Or do "dj's" play epic/tender instrumental music ever? I would imagine they do, but still i despise the very idea of being a performer, and still love producing and composing new music and wouldn't mind something for return if i would seriously start producing in larger scales and effort than, whatever i feel like.

Hey fellas. I'm starting out this topic in order to possibly find out others thoughts / opinions and experience of music as sort of a business if you are interested to reply in anyway. I have actually written a blog post on my home website already about this but i would assume that not many would stumble there, and especially reply anything at all from their end, as no one ever has on either of my home websites. Anyways if you are interested, read it here: https://sunshineartwave.wixsite.com/home/single-post/2018/04/16/Music-Business Now, as you may know, there are A LOT of producers and composers from all corners of the world, especially now in the age of information and Computers, and time of Digital Audio Workstations and their ability to access vast amount of sound design plugins and virtual instruments to use on productions and composing at home. And hence it is rather absurd how many talented composers and producers i encounter online really often, that do not seem to have still many people who know, follow, like them or otherwise haven't made it "big". And then.. on the other end, isn't it rather odd, almost in an annoying way, how big some producers are when their productions seem to be quite simple in the end, often just some really basic repetitive bass heavy beats/basslines and simple leads or melodies, and often also enhanced with some singing to even drown the music further or sometimes music videos to distract you from the sounds themselves. I'm not saying tracks with singing and lyrics for example or even vocal chops are bad, but i see singing and music as rather separate things myself as they are. And not saying music videos are a cancer especially considering i also design some moving effects for my own music videos for the tracks i produced, visual art is whole separate category on its own, but still you can see sometimes how basically "sex sells" on some cases. So the public image out there for musicians of all sorts (composers/producers, bands, singers) is often boosted by gigs and touring, which would kind of be understandable in a fashion that someone pays off tickets to be on some suffocating (in my opinion, introvert here) party or concert/festival, and notice of course someone who might be on the stage of some sort and hence all the people there get to know the person(s) perhaps. And i have heard that those pay quite big sums for the ones that are performing something on the stages, no matter was it genuine band, singer on a mic with some live instruments or even background music playing on some recording, some DJ partying with their already made music and maybe just maybe doing something with the tracks changing on the spot though not always, or some really public figures lip syncing and performing some "sexy" dance crap to entertain or something like that. Then i assume live orchestras aren't as popular among big crowds of "millennials" or something and hence don't pay as much especially to the individual players of instruments that only play the music someone else composed (there might be the composer/designer along though as conductor or something who gets more, the hell if i know) But is music on it's own a dying business, as in someone buying the music instead of tickets to some party or live performance? I mean in the age of internet and streaming services, no one wants to necessarily use their hard earned or otherwise small amounts of money to get some tunes as audio files, when they can basically connect to internet anywhere anytime with all kinds of devices from phones to big pads and laptops, and listen for "free" (or some small prices some streaming services charge such as Spotify for example would be one extremely popular one) and those hardly pay anything to the artists unless you truly get millions of plays, similar to the ad revenue Youtube has. Like when i upload my music to Bandcamp, there hardly comes even plays, but i did get 1st EVER money from my music as donation from a fella downloading my track called 'Sunshine'. Still the 1€ he used, and the 73cents i got after Bandcamp and Paypal fees, would hardly be a notable earning from music from 5 years of practicing and occasionally uploading the tracks online. That in mind, there are still people who would like to support some artists to produce more instead of letting them die out in the masses of others music and without the artists being able to support their productions and future in it, but this too depending on cases, if it would be only few, even few hundred, it wouldn't affect almost at all say if all of those donated/used 1 euro for downloading 1 track. Also assuming that in this modern age, in order for to succeed in business world with music only, you would have to produce a lot of it in order for some people to like at least one of the many, as even tastes in music are obviously different, or otherwise could create what is "ordered" or needed for something and therefore you would have to be doing it a lot for anything to eventually pay off and not just casually doing what you feel like. Would it then just get frustrating and boring and take the fun out of it completely when you are forcing yourself to produce too much? I mean all jobs are like that but would music then feel like work instead of feeling it with the interest and emotion otherwise. One way to get out there as composer/producer only would be making soundtracks of course, but even they aren't as needed always with the vast amount of people attempting the same and getting their better fitting tracks to play on movies/games etc. But still there is also a lot of other entertainment and even advertisements (for example i know a website called 'Tracks&Fields' which has these request for music often, would it be wise to attempt to get your stuff out there and get paid for the effort you put in through there?) so the demand for background music is still strong. Would making these order requests be worthy thing to do in order to get something from the effort? Or in general is music just a fun hobby, but not at all could be considered as a way of making living without touring around (i want to settle down more and stay at home) or basically selling-out and doing only what others order you to do? I mean personally i have practiced a lot of different stuff so i could create indeed a lot of different genres from composing instrumental or orchestral music with virtual instruments, to producing, composing and designing sounds for a lot of different styles of Electronic genres from heavy Dubstep and fast DnB to party vibe House/Trance music. Still i would want to create what i want, not what others want, though for it to be thought as a business, of course you are supposed to give the "customers" what they want, in a way at least. What are your thoughts on general of all this, if you had patience to even read this? Have you thought of same things? What would you like to do? What would you recommend? Are you even experienced about music business more? Do share your intake on this for me and us all at this forum. Thank you.