BocoDragon

Thing is, some fan-made theories are backed up by what the creators have said. I realize that some theories are way off the mark, but other theories regarding creatures like PH have to fit more specific criteria. Some people will say that PH is intrinsically a part of James, while others will say that it doesn't matter because the creature's visage is part of the town's past. I believe the latter interpretation is failing to look at the big picture, but now isn't the time to dreg up that argument. Although I can easily recognize I'm a bit of a purist regarding SH, the details in The Book of Lost Memories are sometimes too concrete to be taken any other way. There are certain aspects of the game that cannot be interpreted another way, although the same aspects may carry several meanings such as the purpose of Laura, Eddie, Douglas or Alessa. As far as I know SH movie is in a world of it's own, and therefore I won't hold it to the same level as the games themselves. If the film tried to continue the game's general continuum it probably wouldn't have succeeded anyway. Personally I don't believe there is a general contiuum in Silent Hill.... it's not a comic book universe, you know? It's a series of nightmarish episodes in a familiar location. I understand the creators' personal backstory has been unveiled through non-game sources, but again, I don't believe that these are rules or specific meanings.... They are only the inspiration for the obtuse work that actually appears in the game. For example, the enemies that James fights certainly are based on twisted images of sexuality........ but if those same monsters were to torture someone without sexual problems in some future game or movie..... so what?... it's Silent Hill! It's crazy! There are no rules. One of the connections SH has to The Beyond, for example, is that it doesn't actually make sense... If you think about it with your logical left-brain you will explode. I know SH has concrete story themes, but the details are not to be explained. At least, they aren't in the main game, which is the artistic work. If the creators wanted you to know exactly what Pyramid Head represented, they would tell you in the game.... What we have now is "an inpiration for Pryramid Head.... what he is supposed to represent... as told in a behind the scenes source", and that doesn't seem like a rule that must now be adhered to. But that says more about me and my relationship to SH than it does about SH itself. I like it kept subjective so that people can continue to read whatever they want in the details..... That has always been the original appeal, IMO. And at least you recognize that you're a purist, and you do have a point It's all good.

You're telling me the opening cinematic of SH1 doesn't scream EURO to any of you? Think about it. In retrospect I was wrong to say SH is "mainly" European.... SH lifts from international horror sources. Considering I am such a Jacob's Ladder fan I should know better. What kinda scares me (not directed at anyone in particular) is that there seems to be a lot of Silent Hill fundamentalism going on...... Silent Hill is this..... Pyramid Head represents that...... YOU FANS INVENTED THESE THEORIES. Don't believe them so much!

Yeah, and that's definitely in there too

No way... I see far more influence from Lucio Fulci and other Italian horror filmmakers in Silent Hill. What American horror movies are you taking about?.... Friday the 13th? Evil Dead? Texas Chainsaw? There might be a little from each in there... but they're not the main influence. Silent Hill uses the US as its location, some influences are certainly American (SH takes from all horror), but the style is mainly European horror. Now Resident Evil is certainly based on American horror styles.....

I think the pessimism is unwarranted. This looks like a simple Euro-style horror film, which is what Silent Hill has been trying to emulate from the very start. We shoud be lucky we have a film that sticks so close to what SH is really about, rather than ballooning it into something it's not. I've watched the fans inflate the mythology to massive proportions, but Silent Hill has always been a simple story about underequipped normal people facing their demons in a punishing nightmare town. A straight telling of this type of story on the big screen will already make it the best videogame movie of all time.... The first legitimate adaptation of a videogame anyway. But I warn you Silent Hill fandom: It will probably be a small film. I don't know if that can support the hype, especially with all the mythology fans have draped upon its simple frame.

Yeah StarZander, that was the same order I played them in too...... 1, 3, 2, 4 worked perfectly well.

Some of them are definitely connected. Some of them are only spiritually connected. Silent Hill 2 is self-contained, and an excellent place to start in the series. Of course, it has some subtle connections to other titles......

I also like how after you beat the game, Maria actually speaks that quote during the looping cinema. Before you beat it she's muted.

I think you are right to have your interpretation, but it is only one of many (and seems to apply to SH2 alone). It would also be right to say that Silent Hill is simply a story about people with personal issues lost in a nightmarish town. You think I am talking about the "look", but I am talking about the style, and the style of SH is SH. But yes, a good film adaption will have metaphorical expressions of humanity like your "love and desire". I just don't think it has to be that metaphor necessarily. How about "parental loss"? (yeah I suppose that's love too)

By the way, just in case no one has done it yet, I declare this thread the official Silent Hill disccussion of the entire internet. Just watched the trailer. I think it's already official: this is the first genuine film "adaptation" of a videogame. Unless there is something horribly off in the movie itself, it looks incredibly faithful to the concept of SH (and lets face it, that "concept" is more to the core of what SH is about than any plotline or character in particular) Because it is so faithful to the games, It also may not be for everyone. I have a feeling the SH fans, such as those who lurk n this thread, will find much to enjoy. Depending on its quality, it could either be something that will draw new fans in..... or be for fans of this style of story only. We will see. Now, will it end with a Melissa Williason tune?

So Siren is a sister title to SH, huh? Is it worth tracking down, or is the game lame and the SH connection merely trivial?

Exactly what I thought as I watched it. This is where Silent Hill came from. Cheers!

Jacob's Ladder is very important to mention, since I'm of the opinion that the Silent Hill series is more or less based off it, in the way that RE can trace its origins to Romero's Dead movies. The confused, disoriented protagonist who finds himself in a subjective and disturbing version of reality (and with a James Sunderland jacket to boot). Strange, freaky monsters who follow him, and who may or may not be torturing him for his personal sins. It's pretty much Silent Hill the movie (though with less actual confrontation with the monsters, as its not a videogame). Hell, the subway in Silent Hill 3 is based off the area of the New York subway that the protagonist is in at the beginning of JL.

I want Silent Hill on Revolution.

Eccles is not alone... It seems almost every Silent Hill fan regards 4 not as awful, just quite meh RE: The current plot of the SH movie It kinda worries me that they're just flipping the plot of the first game. I want the movie to be an independant entry in the SH mythos, not just a rehash. But I guess, in a way, it still fits the bill, since these are at least different characters in the roles.....

It's not vagueness. "Vagueness" is whether or not you can tell if something is one thing or another. In the cases I mentioned above, there is no answer. There is nothing to compare one thing to another. Being vague would mean a case like: "the monsters are really people. I'm just joking." They might be, or they might not be; that is subjective. A case where the material might not be considered "vague" is where the developers create a notion about a certain topic as being the central idea of an event or give you no information at all, creating a hole in the story. Though, the developers try to lead you astray by dropping in certain distractions, they ultimately either give you something to determine what the whole story is about or nothing at all (such as the case I mentioned above). It's not that the games are always vague, or that the story has some sort of multiple dimensioning to it. The stories weren't developed to have a single story in mind or any story for that matter, but as the series continues, the direction that Konami is leading us is towards a single storyline. So, knowing what the difference between a subject being vague and non-existant is of importance to decifering the story, and ultimately understanding those experiences and emotions. Knowing what to feel may be just as subjective as determining whether or not something is a "dream-like experience." Should I feel sad that Alessa was killed, or overjoyed? Does Dahlia make me feel safe, or stalked? Because if it's all just a dream, then why feel anything? (*Inspires interesting SH4 theory idea.*) Why even take the series under consideration if you know that it doesn't really matter anyway? It does, and it should. But, I guess the point is to balance it out. We should know when and where it's important to consider the make-up of the games. Thinking too much might lose your audience, and thinking too little invites unanswerable questions. But, I'll provide one extreme, because there are too many people providing the other. P.S. Saying that "I'm a firm believer that these games are 100% subjective dreamlike experiences," qualifies as a theory about the games. So, that right there creates a paradox in your thinking. All I know is, filling in too many details would ruin the atomosphere and subjectivity of the game, and obviously Konami knows this. What do you think?... Are the details of the storylines that they've left out (including your "plot holes") unintentional goofs that they should've filled in but didn't? No, it's clear they knew what they were doing. Things were intentionally ommitted. (again, for "vagueness". That's a nice rebuttal on the term, but you know what I mean..... "vague" means "not too specific". Period.) Furthermore, are these details going to be revealed in a sequel or some sort of clumsy creator release? (like the RE series "Wesker's Reports"). If they are smart, no. I think they fully know this: The magic comes from not revealing too much. (yes, I'm aware of SH Lost Memories. Luckily it doesn't attempt to give new storyline... it just collects everything in the games thus far.) The flip side of that coin is that there's very little to actually decipher. There are metaphors, themes and motifs to discuss (Yes Dahlia, for example, represents negative feelings.... Don't you have good and bad figures in your dreams?), but the storyline itself.... Is not gonna add up to anything. This is not MGS. So point out that my non-theory is a theory unto itself. Okay. But you know what I mean. I like the story theories. From people who are invested in the gameplay and understand the sensibilities of the game, like yourself, it's pretty neat. But, I wonder if it misses the point of why the games are so special, that's all. Are we gonna ruin the magic by discussing the town Angela grew up in, or the make of Harry's car? Discuss all you want, but the real appeal of the games lies somehwere else (IMHO) We don't have to argue, btw. I totally see your point. I'm just pointing something out, that's all.

Good insight into SH4 Ifrit. But I personally believe that SH3 has no plot holes, exactly, and everything you mentioned does fall under the realm of "vagueness". It is a trademark of this series to just not tell you very much about what is "really" going on, which obviously serves to heighten the sense of the unknown. It has been touched upon before in this thread, but I'm a firm believer that these games are 100% subjective dreamlike experiences. I have no desire to figure out the "rules" governing the wierdness. I have no desire to place the events of SH on a timeline. It's why, even though I'm probably as big of a fan of these games as posters like you and Eccles, I have not posted story theories in this thread, etc, because I believe it is the subjective appeal and connection to the characters that drive the interest of this game.... not necessarily the actual story. I mean... What causes the terror? Is it drugs? Did you die? Aliens? Is Maria good or is she bad? Should you kill yourself? Depending on how you play these games, it can be all of these things. Apparantly the story never really matters, it can end in any way. It's the emotions of the experience that matter the most. There are undeinable motifs and hidden messages in these games, which deserve to be studied. But it will also kinda never really add up to anything... It's always a great read when you guys post something though It is great to see the unique Silent Hill fandom at work. Definitely an intelligent bunch, I'd say.

I completely fell in love with SH3. I'd be tempted to put it above the other games in the series but that would be like choosing a favorite of your children. I absolutely agree that its strong point is the subtlety of the characters. People like you and I found something very interguing about playing as this cool young chick against the forces of hell, but you know that some people might just not get it. Their loss entirely Oh, and what "major holes" in the plot do you speak of? Do you mean actual inconsistancies or just the usual SH vague-ness about what is really happening? SH1-3 are all masterpieces for different reasons. SH4 is original and wierd as hell, but it just didn't try very hard to be very scary, and it made some dumb design choices. I think the reason there's so little dialogue on it is because it really doesn't capture the imagination in the way that the first 3 did.... It almost didn't try to. Little character development, and the storyline was a rather standard supernatural serial killer yarn. Is this Nightmare on Elm Street? It was good, yes, but not really outstanding. Just "another installment". Something this series had never seen before.

I just got a call from the sexy girl who works at EB Games... Silent Hill 4's in!! I'm running downtown right now...

Now I'm confused... RE and SH both default to exactly the same control scheme.... Anyhow, I called EB and they're still not getting SH4 in until tomorrow September 9th. Luckily, I have two days off beginning tomorrow, though! Thanks Ifrit for your detective work. I think I might still actually get that soundtrack considering what you said. I mean the computer did flag me for it, and it's such a high profile preorder freebee that Konami would make sure there were supplies for every store. In any case, I just downloaded a torrent of the entire thing in MP3 anyway

....Beautiful...

I've been going through a great deal of stress recently since even though I preordered SH4 early with the intention of getting the Yamaoka soundtrack, and the EB Games computer says I am eligeable for the soundtrack, the guy who works there stressed that no preorder item is confirmed necessarily. Okay, a fair disclaimer that I might not get it..... But I went back, and a different EB Games guy stressed once again that NO PREORDER ITEM IS CONFIRMED. I MIGHT NOT GET IT. It's kinda creepin me out.... I really want that soundtrack. Aren't they supposed to give it to when WHEN you preorder? Will it ship with the game, or am I SOL? Argh. SH4's already putting me through grueling horror! Here's a topic of discussion: SH4, PS2 or Xbox version? Personally I am getting the PS2 version since it's my preferred console and controller, and because then the entire series is on one system (impossible with the SH3-less Xbox). Surely the Xbox graphics will probably be (ever so slightly) better, and it will probably support in-game Dolby Digital while the PS2 version probably won't. But alas, I don't give a crap. They're probably perfectly identical in most respects anyway. Which version for you?