Yggdrasil Speaks to Me - Valkyrie Profile (PS1)

[Meteo Xavier]

I'm extremely excited. Like the Lufia mix I had on here, I started this one last summer but couldn't finish it. Today, out of nowhere, I sat down to retool it and ended up nearly finishing it much to my design.

This mix doesn't have nearly the same problems as the last Lufia mix (that my ears could pick up anyway) and I felt like everything fell much better in place here. This is a mix of EPIC POEM TO SACRED DEATH, REQUIEM TO A PREDICAMENT and I even threw in RENA'S THEME from Star Ocean 2. I think there's a fourth one in there too.

Anyway, my aim was to make it like Lenneth was wandering through the dark and disturbing forest of Yggdrasil and got lost trying to find Yggdrasil. At the end of the song, she finally discovers Yggdrasil (seemingly by accident) and the song ends as a chapter would. It has a Chrono Cross sound to it and although I may have overdone it some, it has a really dark and dense sound that I'm personally pretty proud of.

Proud though I am, there's still the possibility I'm way off the mark, so I submit it here. The acoustic guitar and piano are run through KOMPAKT, everything else are soundfonts. I reckon this song is 95% complete with a few things I know I need to fix up before submitting to the Judge's Panel.

Here is the song. I look forward to comments and criticisms.

http://www.savefile.com/files/1539089

[Nutritious]

Beautiful intro. Nice soundscape - MUCH cleaner than your prevoius mix. Those strings in the background need some more variety around the same progression; they're gettin repetative playing the same 4 notes. I felt like things needed to change a bit more in the feel of the soundscape around 1:15 - mainly in the backing instruments. It needs more contrast from the earlier sections.

String movement around 1:53 has a bit of a slow attack for the part it's playing, it kinda makes it sound awkward. At 2:18, piano almost seems like it gets a bit lost in that note run. 2:10 - :15 was ok, but after that, it sounds a bit off. Might want to cut down the run a bit or check the notes used... or both perhaps.

I'll try to comment later when I have more time to listen further.

[Meteo Xavier]

I figured the cascading piano was going to be a problem, I wonder if I should phase it out by 2:20? I can't say I feel the same way about 1:15, to me that makes a good early bridge and perfectly sets up the next part. The slow attack on the strings didn't seem to bother me, in fact it sounds a bit more fluid than if it coordinated perfectly with the piano.

The parts that I felt needed to be fixed were the sudden "bump" in 3:43 and should I maybe just cut off the ending part in 2:47 and just jump straight into REQUIEM FOR A PREDICAMENT? That could work better, but I'm not sure.

[anclunn]

Sorry this is so long, and I do like the piece, otherwise I wouldn't bother to go into such detail.

VOCAL

The choral chanting voices sound best when at a higher pitch. When they dip low like that they sound much more artificial. With the choir changing notes so precisely it sounds a bit off, as if it's one voice, when the sound is meant to emulate a group. I would recommend that instead of having the notes they are singing change, with the old note ending and the next starting, that you have some overlap where the last note is still playing for a just a moment after the new one has started (Only for the choir of course though.) This will work much better than reverb if you make it slightly different overlap at different points, giving the vocals an organic feel to them.

HORN

Also the horn that enters early in the second minute stands out as being more midi-like than the strings and winds. Really, maybe you should pick a different instrument here. This one in particular screams synth instruments and brings down the overall priduction quality of the piece.

PIANO and STRING

I have to say I enjoyed the run at 2:15. I think this part actually sticks out more because the multitude of instruments at the end give the piece one of its few changes in dynamics. In fact dynamic changes are something that the piece could really use more of. the phase at 1:50 works fairly well, and in fact most transitions (except for the stretch of emptiness toward the end and the final fade out) are very well done. However, that string section that does the repeating backdrop could fade to lower and rise to greater volumes at certain points while still retaining its rhythm.

DRUM

The drums next. at :52 they are wonderful and absolutely necessary, but then instead of reserving them for transitions you make them part of a repeating loop. I think this is a mistake. at 1:03 and 1:26 they really don't need to be there. At 1:15 it's okay, I'm up in the air about that one. The drums appear again for 2:13, 2:19, 2:24, 2:31, 2:36, 2:42, and 2:47. Of these I have to say that 2:24 and 2:36 were good choices. 2:13 and 2:19 need to be softer somehow. 2:24 is the right volume but needs to sound louder like its been built up to. so 2:13 and 2:19 should be softer or maybe a quick low beat instead of the muffled symbol crash or hi-hat tap it is to reflect that. Please, if you listen to nothing else about the drums, get rid of them at 2:47. With proper volume variation you should be able to emphasis a beat without the need of drums so often, as they lose their magic in a piece like this when used too often.

[Meteo Xavier]

Vocals: What chanting? I only use the synth vox to complete the aural soundscape of the piece. This particular vox is weird, I will give you that, because it only sounds good in the range I'm using it in and I think it really sounds good, but if I go higher, it will undoubtedly ruin it.

Horn: Seriously? Thats one of the best French Horn soundfonts I've ever heard. I was never going for super-realistic here, but I never felt it sounded too MIDI. Additionally, I wouldn't know what other instrument would better substitute it.

Dynamics: Ok, I'm interested here. Dynamics are not my strong suit, but go on. Where do you think I should play with the dynamics some? I was already planning on going back to put in (or simulate) the humanizer. Also, go on about the strings in the repeating section. I'm not quite sure what you mean.

Drum: Drum? You mean the cymbal crash? I suppose I did overuse it. I'll try your suggestions, but if it lessens the impact of the song, I'll need to disregard it.

Strange suggestions, but very thorough and exactly what I'm looking for.

[Meteo Xavier]

I'm just bumping this because I think someone is trying to intentionally bury my post and make it hard for others to see and comment.

[anclunn]

I'll only go into detail with the dynamics since that's what you wanted more of. At 0:17 the string should fade in rather than starting at full volume, which they should reach at about 0:28 or so. They should then pull back a bit at 0:52, but leave the noticeable drop off at 1:15.

The piano could benefit from some panning. Though I wouldn't do the cliché left to right fade and back again. When you're doing triplets (three consecutive notes) in this case two notes with one higher note in between them (the piano does this quite often) why not have the first and third note come from one side and the middle from the other? People want to feel some appreciation when they listen to a piece with quality headphones or a sound system that really shows off its stereo or surround sound capabilities. Throw them a bone.

The piece gets really big at 0:52. and it really doesn't die down at all until 1:38, and this isn't due to dynamic changes, it's more because of the number of instruments you use. When a piece gets bigger because of new instruments joining and then only smaller again when they leave, that's not usually a good sign, just as a general case, exceptions abound for many reasons I won't go into. This happens again at 2:24. With 2:24 the solution is simply to bring the choral soundscape in earlier, much softer. If they then swell up right before the climax but hold back as other instruments make their appearance it will sound much better, trust me.

One last thing, I don't think the piece should fade out. The fade in was nice, and the minimalist segment at the end is good too, but I just feel like that the piece should pick up one more time and end on a stirring clash or shrill note. Just my personal thoughts though.

[Meteo Xavier]

I'll give the suggestions a shot, but I don't know how I'll be able to implement them and make them sound better. I'm not changing the fade-out though. Its sort of a chapter cliffhanger, plus I tried doing it the other way and it was way too hard to get it to work, so I did this instead.

[Meteo Xavier]

Ok, so I've made as many of those requested changes as I could and here is the result:

http://www.savefile.com/files/1549969

Frankly, I don't like the changes, maybe its because I've listened to both versions like a million times, and therefore heard each instrument 2 million times, but I think those changes really suck the life out of the song. The drop at the end was my idea but I don't think I did it very well at all. What I did was completely cut the instruments except for the bells in addition to the reverb and delay because I was still getting resonance coming through the cut. Any ideas on how I can improve this? Thanks

[Meteo Xavier]

I'm bumping this and I don't care. I've worked too hard to let it slide into ruin now.

[Nutritious]

OK:

-As you mentoined, strings attack is too slow. I'm not sure what you're using for them, but either the attack needs to be lowered or a new articulation used. If you want, you can send me a midi of the various string parts and I can send you back a wav.

-Also, reverb is too heavy. Do you have reverb on the lower pads/strings? That might be what's causing the bit of mudiness. The resonance sounds like it's mainly in the lower frequencies.

-Clip or something in the left ear at 1:01, both versions.

-The repeating 4-note string pattern could use some more variation, but not necessarily a must.

-Voice at 1:15 has too much reverb. Maybe lower the decay time, or just turn down the reverb plugin.

Just out of curiousity, what track is the reverb set on? Master?

-Drop off at 2:48 sounds a bit awkward, but it works. Personally, I'd make it stop on the note before that one. That way it leads into the next passage without totally resolving the chord. Also consider letting it build up to it's louded point on the last one or two beats of this phrase, just to accent the dropoff right at the last moment. Maybe even throw in a different type of reverby crash. I don't really like the cymbal crash here with it's delay (or stereo separation, not sure). I think it needs to hit both ears once and decay on reverb rather than echo.

-I really like this ending actually.

Overall, it's a beautiful song. Definitely a keeper once some minor production issues are addressed.

[Meteo Xavier]

So here's the Third version, the one Darkesword recommended.

http://www.savefile.com/files/1600211

Its still not my choice, but who knows, maybe I'm just really reverb happy. Lets try this one and see where it goes.

[Nutritious]

Ok, sounding good so far.

-Things are a lot clearer in this mix than the previous version. Did you also turn up the volume, or is this just due to reverb decrease?

-The voice thing at :35 and :46 is resonating in my headphones. I'm hearing some rattling at the end of some of the notes - namely the end of the first and third note. At first I thought it was my headphones, but adjusting the volume doesn't seem to increase/decrease the rattling sound. Might want to tone down the first and third notes just a tad. If you can't hear it yourself, though, it's hard to fix.

-String line at :50 is sticking out a bit to me. Possibly because it's centered in the mix. Maybe try some Stereo Separation and see what it sounds like. Use the Stereo Enhancer plugin and just move the phase offset knob to the left or right about 2ms.

-Absolutely love the french horn at 1:58

-Sounds like a clip or another instance of resonation at 2:23. I'm not really sure what's causing that honestly.

This is very close I think, production-wise. I haven't checked out the OST, so I can't comment on the arrangement side.

[Meteo Xavier]

I turned down the reverb (which I'm not happy with and need to turn it back up just slightly), but I also EQ'd it to take out some of the bass nonsense. Yeah, I noticed the voice thing too, I wonder why turning down the reverb turned up the volume on that. String seperation might work, I'll try that.