Microphones for Musical Theater

[The Pezman]

So I know this isn't quite remixing in the traditional sense, but it is an audio-related question for something I'm working on and was thinking someone might know something about it here.

I'm the assistant sound designer for the musical this semester. Unfortunately, that does not mean much in the way of actual sound design, and more along the lines of a single task: to try and apply knowledge of sound dynamics in order to determine a theoretically ideal placement for mics in order to best catch the sound of onstage singers. Just so everyone knows, singers in musicals can't hold mics, and won't have any clipped to their clothing either. So the question becomes where to place the mics on the stage. We have these two kinds of mics:

Crown PCC-150

Audio-Technica AT3528

In the past, he's explained, he's always just guestimated (god I hate that word) where they should be, but if there is anything we can use beyond simple trial-and-error, we'd love to know.

[Meteo Xavier]

Man, if we were further in my recording class I could probably tell you what to do. There's a LOT to microphones and their placements so that they're not bleeding into one another and get the right sound. A good question is what kind of mics are they (I can't load them for some reason). Condensers? Dynamics? They have shapes of sound pickup and certain microphones handle certain frequencies better.

I'm sorry I can't be more help, but I didn't want your question to at least go unheard. It IS more than just trial-and-error, but there is a little bit of it in practice, and only a little if you know what you're doing.

I wonder if this correct: Look up MIX Magazine online and look for articles on Microphone terminology or something. They have some articles that could at least get you guys going in a direction.

[Wiesty]

its gonna be tough, the one audiotechnica is a condenser so it could get quite noisy on stage. I havent worked much with these type of micing positions but it wouldnt hurt to try an overhead system or like an offstage in front point up. You could try hanging the mics down at the stage with 1 back left 1 back right, 1 forward left (closer to centre), 1 forwarwd right (closer to centre) and one or two in the middle.

[Kanthos]

Just so everyone knows, singers in musicals can't hold mics, and won't have any clipped to their clothing either.

If you want the production to sound anything near good, get each one of your leads a headset mic. You can get ones that are flesh-colored. The idea that they won't (as opposed to can't, for some reason) use headset mics seems silly. Unless the show is performed in a very small venue and all of your vocalists have significant vocal training and a lot of power, they're not going to be heard well with hanging mics. You're also going to have an impossible time hanging mics appropriately for leads to sing into. Hanging mics need to be high enough that none of the performers will bump into them at any time (and don't count on the positioning of the performers to be precise enough that you can put the mics lower because the few lifts and such you might have are in certain spots). If you're a lead singing into a hanging mic, you're either going to be fairly far away on the stage from the point where the mic would be if it were lowered to the stage, or you're going to have to tilt your head up significantly.

I don't see any reason why you shouldn't rent headset mics. Why can't the performers have them clipped? I was musical director for Footloose in school a few years ago and was involved with a lot of the production issues, including getting audio equipment, and we went with headsets. Footloose is also a very energetic show, especially the way we choreographed it. If you don't have the budget to rent headset mics, make the budget. There is no other financial investment that will have a bigger impact on the quality of your show than this.

As for the hanging mics you do have, I'd spread them out in a grid. Is there any permanent staff at the venue you're performing at (our school's main lecture hall had a tech guy for this kind of thing) who could give you any advice? Or maybe talk to a local audio rental store, especially if you're already going there to get headsets.

[The Pezman]

Well the theater is small. In fact, I'm sitting in the back row now and I'm maybe 30-40 feet away. Any headset mics, flesh colored or otherwise, will be noticed. However, it's still large enough that even our powerful singers (and I know them well... they're good) won't fill the room over music. The guy I'm working with explained that he has set up microphones along the stage (not hanging) many times before, and he's been working in technical theater since the 70s so it's probably not wise to simply tell him it's not effective. But, given the mike specifications, is there an ideal place for the singers to be relative to them?

[Kanthos]

Well, I'm not that experienced with mics, but I always thought that vocal mics worked best when the singer was a few inches from the mic head.

Also, headset mics are too obtrusive and will be visible but stand mics on the front of the stage won't? How does that make any sense?

If you're set on using what the theatre already has, why not ask the guy what he recommends? Have him sit down with whoever in the production is involved with blocking and work something out? I'd say that evenly spread out is ideal as long as the leads will be close enough to the mics during all the smaller songs when you don't have a full chorus on stage, but if you have someone who's been doing this over 30 years, talking to him will be better than talking to any of us, especially since he also knows (or should know) the quirks of the venue. And I'd bring up the possibility of headset mics with him. If he has a good reason to avoid them, by all means do so (and I'd like to hear what that reason is), but other than budget, I'm not aware of any reason why you wouldn't want them in addition to whatever works well for capturing the chorus.

Out of curiosity, what show is it?

[audio fidelity]

are these mics for live sound or for recording? you didn't really make it clear.

[The Pezman]

Well, I'm not that experienced with mics, but I always thought that vocal mics worked best when the singer was a few inches from the mic head.

Also, headset mics are too obtrusive and will be visible but stand mics on the front of the stage won't? How does that make any sense?

Not stand mics. Did you take a look at the mic specs? They actually catch sound in a curve behind them. They're meant for this sort of thing.

If you're set on using what the theatre already has, why not ask the guy what he recommends? Have him sit down with whoever in the production is involved with blocking and work something out? I'd say that evenly spread out is ideal as long as the leads will be close enough to the mics during all the smaller songs when you don't have a full chorus on stage, but if you have someone who's been doing this over 30 years, talking to him will be better than talking to any of us, especially since he also knows (or should know) the quirks of the venue.

Maybe I didn't make this clear. The guy is the person who asked me to do this in the first place. He's got a lot of experience, but he knows few technical details. He does what he calls "seat of the pants" engineering, just trying things and seeing what works. He'd like to know if there's a more efficient way to do it.

And I'd bring up the possibility of headset mics with him. If he has a good reason to avoid them, by all means do so (and I'd like to hear what that reason is), but other than budget, I'm not aware of any reason why you wouldn't want them in addition to whatever works well for capturing the chorus.

I'll bring up the idea for the future (the show goes up in a week), but I imagine he'll have a similar response to me. Doesn't hurt to ask though.

Out of curiosity, what show is it?

It's funny you mention the chorus so often, because our show is one of the few musicals which really doesn't have one: A Little Night Music. The largest song has about fourteen people all told.

are these mics for live sound or for recording? you didn't really make it clear.

The mics are definitely for live sound, to amplify the singers.

[Kanthos]

Didn't realize that the first kind, at least, sat on the floor. I'd think that'd be a bad idea though; wouldn't it pick up the noise of the performers moving on stage?

With the show up in a week, I can see why you wouldn't want to go out and get more mics.

As for positioning, I'm far from being an expert, but I'd think that the most important thing you want is to have mics positioned so that all the leads are directly in front of a mic on the slower numbers. Based on where they're going to be standing on the stage, that might not be possible, but you'd want positions that minimize the overall distance from the lead to a mic at all times. Other factors that might make a difference are stage monitors, if any; you obviously want to position the mics to avoid feedback. I don't know enough to suggest ideal positions, especially with all the unknowns (at least, unknown to me) in your venue and production. Maybe someone else here can help, but I believe that the people who know the venue best probably have the most knowledge. Ultimately, if it works, it works, right?

Good luck with the show!

[The Pezman]

Ultimately, if it works, it works, right?!

This is the philosophy the tech director has always used, and it may turn out that it's the best one to use in situations like these.

He explained more about the headset mics: the mics are not there to dominate the voice projection. Like I said, the singers are powerful and the venue is small. So there will be minimal gain, and the show won't sound like it's miced. Unless it were a big over-the-top show like Rent, it doesn't make sense for it to sound miced.

[audio fidelity]

alright - so you have two mics and need to boost some sound in an already small theater.

You don't need mics for single performers as they can already project well enough.

What you want to focus on is balance and making sure the right presence is heard for everyone. Being that back seats can hear the same thing almost as the front.

Now with the PZM - this may be obvious - they only work well when they are against a flat surface. So them being on the floor is fine I think. I have seen PZM's on floors for stage productions before. If there is a lot of movement on stage, it's either for a big number where you don't really need the mic, or probably when there is no singing. I would def advise the cast that it is there so there isn't any fallups later. You can also put this on maybe some other prop on stage if its there all the time. But the floor is fine. I put a condenser on next to the floor from the pit and had minimal noise when I did it.

Now with the condenser - two options - use it how i mentioned it above - or, and more importantly, if you need to balance out say ane ensemble as someone is singing lead then try to put somewhere else that it can pick up the sound. It doesn't need to be in front of the performers. And I would suggest you try to not have it be seen at all. All you need is to capture some of that presence so you can boost it out in the hall a little bit for balance and clarity.

Well hope it works out well, but it sounds to me like your your overthinking it. Especially if this is a small theater where the singers can already project. As the sound engineer you don't want to be noticed. If no one notices that you were there and they enjoy the performance then you have done your job. Good luck.