Making music with Casio 1600 keyboard

[Napket]

Heya! Some time ago, I told you about making music with my Casio 1600 keyboard and Acid Pro 7. I haven't been around for a long time, but now that I'm giving more time for making music I have new problems.

I can't send my midi music from my keyboard to computer in Acid Pro. I think the problem could be in the software itself, but what other should I use? I have used keyboards channels (sequencer tracks) to record my music just so I won't forget it ( I suck at writing notes) and I wanted to send/record with Acid Pro those pieces I have in my keyboard to my computer but I can't figure out how. I've read software's own intructions over and over again without success. I have M-Audio USB controller to connect my keyboard to my computer. When I try to record while keyboard being connected, I can't hear any sound at all.

What would you suggest? I'll tell more if my explanation was too difficult to understand.

[Nabeel Ansari]

When I try to record while keyboard being connected, I can't hear any sound at all.

So you set up ACID to take input from your keyboard?

Did you put a sound (synth or sampler) on the ACID instrument track you were recording to and set the MIDI channel on that track? MIDI isn't sound, it's only instructions. You have to send those instructions to some sort of synthesizer or sampler so THOSE THINGS can make sound.

Also, I'm not sure you can export your MIDI songs stored on your keyboard to ACID. It's not an ACID issue, it's something you have to look up about your keyboard. You might have to re-perform them while recording in ACID.

[Napket]

Thank you for your reply!

I tried to set the channels right, but obviously I failed at that because I couldn't record. I think I'm somehow doing it wrong, so can you perhaps help me to get the Acid set right?

Edit: My intention was to record the music I played from keyboard to Acid Pro, I just stored the music in the keyboard so that I wouldn't forget what I had played already. So yes, I set Acid to take input from my keyboard, but now the channels may be the thing I don't understand right.

[Nabeel Ansari]

Edit: My intention was to record the music I played from keyboard to Acid Pro, I just stored the music in the keyboard so that I wouldn't forget what I had played already. So yes, I set Acid to take input from my keyboard, but now the channels may be the thing I don't understand right.

When you play back songs from your keyboard, you're not sending MIDI data to ACID. The keyboard is sending the MIDI data to its sound chip/card/bank and then that makes the sound. You can't play back the song on the keyboard and have it record MIDI into ACID, it doesn't work like that.

When you record MIDI you hit the record button and you PERFORM (you play whatever you want to play) on your keyboard and then ACID writes down whatever notes you are physically playing with your hands.

[Napket]

Haha, sorry, looks like I explained all wrong. I DID mean that I want to play the keyboard and have Acid to record what I play, not the music that is stored in the keyboard. Sorry if you misunderstood me, sorry.

What you said is the main problem I have: I hit the record button and play the keyboard with my hands but there's no sound at all. I try to create MIDI track and Audio track and then record, but nothing gets recorded. Is WK-1600,I don't know, too old keyboard or something that it doesn't work right, or is there something wrong in the USB cable? I thank you for your time!

[Nabeel Ansari]

Haha, sorry, looks like I explained all wrong. I DID mean that I want to play the keyboard and have Acid to record what I play, not the music that is stored in the keyboard. Sorry if you misunderstood me, sorry.

What you said is the main problem I have: I hit the record button and play the keyboard with my hands but there's no sound at all. I try to create MIDI track and Audio track and then record, but nothing gets recorded. Is WK-1600,I don't know, too old keyboard or something that it doesn't work right, or is there something wrong in the USB cable? I thank you for your time!

Like I said, MIDI is not sound, it's instructions. You can't just make a MIDI track and expect it to make sound. Why? Because you're sending the instructions to ACID, but you're not making ACID send them to a synth or sampler (to make sound).

Make an INSTRUMENT track. A MIDI track is just an empty track to store MIDI data in, you usually use it when your sampler can take in multiple MIDI channels at the same time. Just ignore that for now and make an instrument track. When you do, you should be able to pick a sound that you want and then that sound will be used when you play on your keyboard. If you want the sounds that come out of your keyboard to go into ACID, you have to record the audio output of the keyboard (with a 1/4 inch stereo cable), not its MIDI output.

Also, are you saying that when you play, you don't see any MIDI data appear (visually) in ACID either? Are you sure you set it up correctly? You might have to hit the record button that's on the track itself. Bear with me, because I only know how this works in Pro Tools and Cubase (and FL Studio, but FL is a different, easier system entirely).

[Napket]

Hey again.

I now try to make this easier and got Cubase 5. In the device setup it looks like Cubase found my keyboard and all, and now I tred to make the instrument track, but this box just stops me (link below, someone got the same problem).

http://dnbforum.com/showthread.php?105419-How-to-add-VST-MIDI-tracks-in-Cubase-5

I tried what would happen, if a midi track would be creatied and the same box happens. If I exit the box, there won't be a track.

I'm "a little" lost now, but I hope you can help me with Cubase better. :>

[Nabeel Ansari]

Hey again.

I now try to make this easier and got Cubase 5. In the device setup it looks like Cubase found my keyboard and all, and now I tred to make the instrument track, but this box just stops me (link below, someone got the same problem).

http://dnbforum.com/showthread.php?105419-How-to-add-VST-MIDI-tracks-in-Cubase-5

I tried what would happen, if a midi track would be creatied and the same box happens. If I exit the box, there won't be a track.

I'm "a little" lost now, but I hope you can help me with Cubase better. :>

That box should have buttons. If it doesn't, close Cubase and try again. If it doesn't work, try reinstalling Cubase. There should be buttons there as said in that thread.

[Kanthos]

That article mentions an alternative: Hit F11 to open the VST window, load your VST into one of the slots, and create a MIDI track for that VST.

Also, you could try just hitting Enter instead of clicking a button; on most dialogs, Enter and Escape correspond to the Ok/Accept and Cancel/Reject buttons. That might work even if the buttons aren't shown.

[Napket]

Ok, I installed updates for Cubase, and now I can see the buttons. Thank you!

Now if I hit F11, I can't see my keyboard on the list. If I go to the Device Setup, it shows my USB Uno Midi In there, in MIDI port setup and says it's active when my keyboard is on.

If I create Instrument track and pick for example normal piano sound from the list, there's this Input Routing to where I can set my USB Uno at.

So this is where I'm now, still there's no sound if I play or record (surely just because there's something I haven't set yet right).

[Nabeel Ansari]

Ok, I installed updates for Cubase, and now I can see the buttons. Thank you!

Now if I hit F11, I can't see my keyboard on the list. If I go to the Device Setup, it shows my USB Uno Midi In there, in MIDI port setup and says it's active when my keyboard is on.

If I create Instrument track and pick for example normal piano sound from the list, there's this Input Routing to where I can set my USB Uno at.

So this is where I'm now, still there's no sound if I play or record (surely just because there's something I haven't set yet right).

Set "All MIDI Inputs" to your MIDI thing (USB uno or whatever it is) and the one under that should be whatever instrument you chose. In your case that's "Normal Piano".

[Napket]

Ok, now I have same kind of window like the one you posted. I named my keyboard Casio, and now I have there All MIDI inputs (my USB is on the list too) and under it Casio. If I use headphones (or without) I can hear the sound of me clicking and typing or doing whatever. So how to record now?

[Kanthos]

I suggest reading the Cubase manual or google for tutorials. You're not having setup problems; you're having "I don't have a clue what I'm doing" problems. Which is fine; everyone has to start somewhere. But I really hope you don't intend to ask every little question along the way that you run into without trying to figure it out yourself first. It's one thing to say, "I tried to do this and it's not working; what might I have done wrong"; it's something else to ask, "Take the time to type out basic things that I can easily find myself if I can be bothered."

To answer your question though, try this.

[Nabeel Ansari]

Ok, now I have same kind of window like the one you posted. I named my keyboard Casio, and now I have there All MIDI inputs (my USB is on the list too) and under it Casio. If I use headphones (or without) I can hear the sound of me clicking and typing or doing whatever. So how to record now?

Why did you select Casio as your output? You should've left it alone.

Make a new instrument track, select a sound you want, and then set "All MIDI inputs" to your USB keyboard.

[Napket]

Kanthos - Haha, I'm sorry, you're right. I wasn't going to ask everything here. Afterall, I do can read the manuals. And use Google. I was just so annoyed I couldn't get things to work, shouldn't have raged while posting to thread, could have just taken the simpliest way. Really sorry!

Forgive me, if that sounded trolling or somewhat funny, it's just my English. Not so good.

neblix - Done, now reading Cubase's help and Google tips. Thank you!

Thank you for all your help, I don't know what will happen in couple of months because we are going to move in Worcester, UK. I'm not sure if I can take my keyboard with me, probably can't. Then I just have to buy another in UK and I'll do all this with it too. But it shouldn't be a big issue now that I got the old keyboard to work.

I'll be back, if there's something more. And thank you again!

[Kanthos]

Kanthos - Haha, I'm sorry, you're right. I wasn't going to ask everything here. Afterall, I do can read the manuals. And use Google. I was just so annoyed I couldn't get things to work, shouldn't have raged while posting to thread, could have just taken the simpliest way. Really sorry!

Forgive me, if that sounded trolling or somewhat funny, it's just my English. Not so good.

No problem; I've left keyboard forums before because people got lazy and asked for the basics over and over and most of the senior members encouraged that and didn't like me directing people to the manual, Google, or the forum's search page. Sorry if I came across a bit too harsh

Your English isn't perfect, but it's quite understandable (and often better than people who spend all their time texting )

I'm going to disagree slightly with Neblix as to which track you could use in Cubase. An Instrument track will definitely do the job, but depending on what you're doing, you should consider MIDI tracks instead.

The two are somewhat similar, except that a MIDI track doesn't have a single plugin built in. Instead, hit F11 to bring up the VST window, load a VST into a particular slot, and then go to your MIDI track and make sure the input is coming from All MIDI Inputs (or from your keyboard specifically) and is being sent to the VST you've loaded.

The main reason to use MIDI tracks instead of Instrument tracks is if you want to send more than one track of MIDI data through the same plugin, especially for multi-timbral plugins like Kontakt. Say you're doing a string quartet. If you use Instrument tracks, you'll need 4 instances of Kontakt, since each instrument in your quartet needs its own instance. If you use MIDI tracks instead, you have four MIDI tracks, one instance of Kontakt that has the four string sounds loaded, on different MIDI channels, and Kontakt can use a different output for each sound so that you can adjust EQ and other effects independently. Loading 4 instances of Kontakt takes more memory than loading just one, and it keeps all the strings in one place, so this is usually the better way to go.

[Nabeel Ansari]

I told him not to worry about MIDI tracks yet because it doesn't seem like he's wrapped his head around the concept of MIDI yet. I didn't wanna further confuse him before he understood the basics of how he can record MIDI.

[Napket]

Kanthos - Thanks, I'm happy that you can understand my writing. Some of it anyway. And it's OK to say things straight, I understand better that way. I can write English better than speak it, and if I really concentrate, I make only few mistakes (most of them being grammar fails). I can only hope my English gets better while living in the UK.

Neblix - Yeah you're right, I didn't have much of a clue about MIDI before I came here for help. I'm now studying the basics in English (more information than in Finnish, we Finns seem to like it simple ). So that's why I think you did the right thing not to "worry" me just yet.

I'm staying with my parents for this weekend, so I'll get back to you at the start of the next week, once I'm with my keyboard again. And as soon as I have some music, I will share it!

[Napket]

OK, here again. :>

I managed to record both Instrument and MIDI tracks. With instrument track the sounds (for example piano sound) are way better than MIDI. In instrument track I used HalionOne's piano sound Jazz Piano A (in output), and it sounded great.

I'm sorry to sound clueless, but what is Kontakt? Do I have to own something like that (have I really tried to make music without something I should have)?

The two are somewhat similar, except that a MIDI track doesn't have a single plugin built in. Instead, hit F11 to bring up the VST window, load a VST into a particular slot, and then go to your MIDI track and make sure the input is coming from All MIDI Inputs (or from your keyboard specifically) and is being sent to the VST you've loaded.

Do you mean "being sent to the VST" as in the output is set to the keyboard? Because I tried this, recorded, got the data but couldn't hear anything. Maybe I again understood wrong because of the language..

When I recorded MIDI, my output was set to Cubase's Microsoft Wavetable Synth. I got the sound and all, but the piano sounded bad. Do I just have to edit the sound somehow? I still haven't tried much editing, I only managed to record at last.

[Kanthos]

Hmm, I don't think you really understand MIDI tracks. See this screenshot: it shows that a plugin called EZPlayer is generating MIDI and feeding the MIDI to the MIDI Track (EZPlayer 01), and the MIDI is being sent out to Superior Drummer. The only significant difference between MIDI and Instrument tracks is that the Instrument track is tied to the plugin directly, while the MIDI track can be directed to any track.

There's no quality difference between MIDI and Instrument tracks if you send the MIDI data from the MIDI track to the same plugin that's 'built in' to the Instrument track.

Let me break it down even further to simplify things. An Instrument track is a MIDI track plus some other stuff. In both cases, you're recording MIDI data from your keyboard. In a MIDI track, the MIDI data you've recorded needs to be sent somewhere: to a plugin or to another MIDI device (you chose to send it to the Microsoft Wavetable Synth, which isn't actually part of Cubase; it's a MIDI playback device that's low-quality and part of Windows; you never want to use it).

Do you mean "being sent to the VST" as in the output is set to the keyboard? Because I tried this, recorded, got the data but couldn't hear anything.

MIDI data isn't audio; it's a set of instructions about which notes to play when and how loud, and which controls (sustain pedal, etc.) modify the sound. Your keyboard produces MIDI, but either it's connected or set up wrong or it doesn't produce audio from an incoming MIDI signal.

The general idea is this: Keyboard (generates MIDI) -> Cubase (record MIDI to a MIDI track) -> IF MONITORING IS TURNED ON, the MIDI data goes to the output device or plugin selected for the MIDI channel or to the plugin chosen in the instrument channel -> Plugin/output device turns the MIDI data into audio.

You only need monitoring when you record (otherwise the data isn't send anywhere as you record it, though it will be sent on playback later). To turn on monitoring, click on the little speaker icon for the track that's immediately to the right of the record icon.

I'm sorry to sound clueless, but what is Kontakt? Do I have to own something like that (have I really tried to make music without something I should have)?

Kontakt is a sample playback engine, just like Halion. Unlike Halion, it supports a lot more audio formats, and there are all kinds of people putting out sample libraries that require Kontakt to be used. For example, this. You definitely don't need it, though as you progress as a musician, you may find that you want better-quality sounds or sounds that you don't already have, so you might need to get Kontakt at some point (or better yet, Native Instruments Komplete; a bundle that has Kontakt and a bunch of other software instruments and sample sets).

[Nabeel Ansari]

If Kanthos's explanation is too hard to grasp (I think he made it a little complicated) then just think of it like this.

MIDI is sheet music for computers. MIDI tracks are paper, and recording MIDI is writing music notation on the paper.

Instrument tracks are both the paper and the performer that is going to read it to make real sound out of what it reads.

A plug in is the performer. You can either put a plug in on an instrument track to be the performer for that paper or you can have it get stuff from MIDI tracks.

The reason you would have multiple MIDI tracks is because samplers like Kontakt can get 16 different channels of MIDI data simultaneously. In other words, it has 16 performers ready to read 16 pieces of paper (MIDI track). You would have Kontakt or another sampler open as a VST and then open 16 MIDI tracks. The MIDI tracks by themselves are just the paper, but each instrument in Kontakt that is assigned to a channel number reads the paper and makes sound.

However, since you are just starting out, you won't really make much use of this information anyway. Just do instrument tracks for now, which are the paper and the performer all in one to keep it simple.

[Napket]

Thank you, that cleared things a lot.

Okay, I set my output to my keyboard and now it works fine (I dunno why it joked around last time, couldn't find the USB Uno or whatever). I made 5 midi tracks with 5 channels from my keyboard. Forgive me, if I can't explain correctly in English, but I'll try with a picture:

http://s88.photobucket.com/albums/k166/Ryuu_/?action=view&current=guu.jpg

Maybe there's easier way of doing this, but for now this is what I did. 5 tracks in 5 channels. Tracks can be played, if the channels are on/active. I use my headphones, which are attached to my keyboard and the song plays through them.

I tried to do exactly like in the manual or other forums suggested, but I'm stuck now here. I have this data, but how do I save (or export was the other term) it as wav/mp3/mid file so that it can be played with music players like winamp? The keyboard's manual has some instructions for sending/receiving midi data by pressing keyboards MIDI button, but I couldn't get it to work. If I try to do as in manual by going to the File menu and selecting export audio mixdown, it says after a while "Sorry, a Timeout occured". I may be doing something now wrong again, but please forgive a beginner.

[Nabeel Ansari]

Why are you outputting the song through your keyboard?

EDIT: What I mean is if you wanna record the sounds that come out of your keyboard you have to plug the "Line Out" on your keyboard into your computer (1/4 or use a 1/8 like your headphones) and then recording the audio output of your keyboard. You can't get the sounds from your keyboard into your computer by MIDI data, because MIDI doesn't transfer audio, only bits and bytes of data.

You should use the sounds that Cubase has (instead of setting the output to your keyboard, set it to HALion or something). Your keyboard sound chip is totally separate from the one in your computer, and Cubase doesn't hear your keyboard sounds.

[Napket]

OK, thank you! I created instrument tracks and used Halion as output and it works fine. The reason why I set it to my keyboard was that I wanted to use the keyboard's sounds, didn't know that I actually can't do that.

Ah, and now I got Halion in my midi output. There was this step of loading VST as output I forgot, so I didn't have any other outputs on the list than Wavetable and my keyboard.

Yeah, I'm going to practice some more today with instrument and midi tracks. I really hope I'll get to the music making course someday, this is hard by myself and starting from nothing. Thank you guys. :>

EDIT:

The first recording is about 50 seconds long, yay.

I'll just post a link to my blog, the link for the recording can be found there (it's in Soundcloud).

http://composingnapket.blogspot.com/

[Kanthos]

OK, thank you! I created instrument tracks and used Halion as output and it works fine. The reason why I set it to my keyboard was that I wanted to use the keyboard's sounds, didn't know that I actually can't do that.

Well, as Neblix said, you can actually do that; you just have to record the audio coming out of the keyboard as well; the USB or MIDI connection won't do that.