Sonic & Knuckles - Hidden Palace Zone (Remastered)

[Ryan Jobson]

Hi guys,

I'm back again with my last remastered Sonic tune for now. I posted one for Lava Reef Zone 1 a week ago, but it didn't get any replies (probably because it's not a ReMix).

The reason I'm doing this is to improve my production skills and ear training (this was not a midi rip). Anyway, like I said, this is my last remastered tune for a while, as I'm moving my focus back to arrangement and composition for my own original songs.

I would still like to hear feedback or comments though to see what you guys think. If my production is alright, it's more likely I will do a ReMix next!!

Edit: Sorry for not including source. Here it is! SOURCE:

My remastered version:

Cheers,

~Syllix

[Arceace]

Here's my first impression of the cover/remaster. The balancing levels were pretty good, and I didn't hear much conflict between each part. I understand that the original didn't have much for percussion, but I think that better percussion samples could help you go a long way. (I know they did so for me)

The swish sound effect sounded rather tinny. You may want to try to find a better one. It certainly played its role nicely, but I think the cover could be brought to a new level with a fuller sound from the swish.

I certainly don't think that there are many problems with the cover. I too have been working on ear training and there are still many things that I don't understand. One other thing that you may want to do is give the whole song a bit more juice. Then again, if you planned this to sound like background music, that's okay too. But if you give the song more power, you would be surprised how much it may improve. You might want to look into some stereo enhancers for that.

All in all, I would say that this is a pretty good cover. Just keep trying to improve and it will happen.

[Ryan Jobson]

Hey, thanks so much for your detailed response. It means a lot to me and I appreciate the time you took to really give some constructive criticism.

You're right, the original didn't have much percussion. I layered some percussive sounds I made with my own field recordings. They may be very difficult to pick out, but yes I understand they are rather thin. I agree that better samples, either my own or from somewhere else may help.

The swish I do agree is very thin... I believe I cut it at 1500hz, with the super high end accented with an exciter... why did I do this? Ha! I have no idea, but yeah it could be fuller sounding. It sounds tinny because it was a sample from an industrial train yard, probably something metal and struck with a large stick. I stretched it out and loaded it with silververb, but yeah I now realize, although it filled out its part in the song, I could have chosen something better to fill that roll.

I kind of understand what you're saying about more juice, but this track was meant to be mellower than the music from it's preceding stage in the game.

I am curious about the stereo enhancement you mentioned. Logic has a stereo spread which I've used before, and looking at the goniometer in Logic's multimeter, the overall stereo image looked pretty good to me. Also, a lot of the synths are panned to sound wider. For example, the high square waves that came after the initial intro, are I believe giving the effect of ostinato, where each note alternates from left and right speaker (I believe they were panned -24 and +24. Also the subtle 4th and 5th notes overtop are panned even wider at -48 and +48.

I would like to know what kind of instruments, or in what situations you would use stereo enhancement when one is already using different ways of achieving a wider stereo image. If you or anyone could shed some light on this, it would be much appreciated.

Lastly, I think I would like to mention that I need to learn how to start keeping things simple. This song had 41 tracks!!!

Anyway, I'm glad you liked the tune!!

~Syllix

[Arceace]

Upon a closer listen, I heard more than I thought I did. All of the sounds that you have chosen feel very appropriate. Since I know that you're gowing for a more subtle aproach to the arrangement, I can say that it is working out pretty well in that aspect.

What I mean when I suggest using stereo enhancers is to get more oomph out of your sounds with out increasing the volume in the mixer. In one of the most current projects that I have been working on, I had been having a lot of trouble keeping everything distinct and separate. (not that you're having that problem ) Before, everything sounded muddled, compressed, and weak. Using the stereo enhancer helped me to not only make the song feel stronger, but also differentiate each sound from one another. Now, this trick can also be used to not necessarily increase the volume of the track, but give the sounds in the track more power and meaning. A stereo enhancer, or maximizer, (The one that I have used is the soundgoodizer from FL studio) is used to help spread sounds to unused frequency ranges. You can use this to help giver certain sounds a fuller feel to them.

I have not personally used any tools form logic, (right now I only have access to FL Studio) but I think the tool that you mentioned might be able to help do the trick. I like to use the maximizer on basses, leads, and pads. Granted, I only use it when I need more power in the track, but you can have both power and subtlety if you play around with it just right. I like to listen to songs that make it on the front page of OCR to give myself an example to follow so that I know what to listen for. In the current cover you are working on, what I think can use some more power is the lead, and the occasional vocal pad that plays in the background. Volume isn't the problem, but it would help if they were a little fuller to give a better sense of presence.

I really like what your doing with this cover. The world can always use more Sonic The Hedgehog songs. Just don't forget that music production is a long learning process. I personally have only been using FL Studio for about 6 months, and there are still many things that I have yet to learn.

Hope this helped you out a little bit.

Edit:

I also found a link to help you see what the soundgoodizer does.

Link:

http://flstudio.image-line.com/help/html/plugins/Soundgoodizer.htm

Here's a video showing what it does.

Link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SEqdEl-2gg

Granted, this is a beginners tool to help when you need it. It has helped me improve my sound quality considerably. However, there are better ways of going about that.