RazorOutlaw

Either PH is a version of Valtiel or PH is actually another "angel" in the cult's mythos that took the form of an executioner in SH2. And if that is the case then I was misinterpreting the line "the incarnation of James's need for guilt" as merely applying to its form and origin, not what the creature actually is (an angel, in this case). Bear in mind that both PH and Valtiel wear the same religious clothing that the priests do (or rather, the priests derived their clothing from those two creatures.) God, how a few days can make me sing a different tune.

So, it's official. PH is no longer tied exclusively to James, at least not in the way some of us felt the character was. As seen on the Director's blog... Spoilers, I guess. Mr. Gans: A lot of people feel that it doesn't make sense for the Red Pyramid to be in the film because he was a delusion specifically for James. While I think it makes perfect sense, can you shed some light on the subject so that peace may finally be restored to all the Silent Hill forums of the world? - Jared S Akira Yamaoka and I agree that Red P is not just a creation of James. Saying that Red Pyramid was solely conceived by James in Silent Hill 2 is just one of the explanations for his existence. James is just one point of view. Another perspective is to remember that Silent Hill existed before James and that Red P was one of the executioners in the original history of the town. So clearly, there is not one particular or exclusive manifestation of him as an entity. My version of the Red P was adapted from the perspective of the female characters. I felt it important that their psyche influence his shape, dress and physicality. And of course a statement displaying my outright confusion: I'm just curious as to how in the hell the Book of Lost Memories can say that PH was incarnated from James's mind. Doesn't that express exclusivity right there? The BoLM even says that PH was only a representation of his guilt...so...am I just being a stickler over semantics? I mean, yes, I can and have been a stickler regarding PH here. When I read the word "only" I take that to mean that the creature is really only an incarnation of James's mind and not some part of the town. But now, I guess it isn't. Implied by ifirit a few pages ago (lol) PH is apparently a divine creature of some sort. Akira and Gans confirm this basically. If by saying that James's perspective was merely a unique way of seeing PH then PH must really be an intrinsic part of the town unlike the way all of those lesser monsters are. I'm really curious as to how in the hell the internet kiddies ended up being right. They never bothered to cite the Book of Lost Memories for evidence, a lot of them just seemed to have this idea that anybody could see PH should their mental state allow it. HOLY CRAP I'M HAVING A NERD MELTDOWN.

You know what, the entire discussion so-far has been a clusterfuck. I completely misunderstood you Aetherius, and wasn't willing to admit that I misunderstood you in the first place. I did forget that both Valtiel and PH wore the same clothing, basically, which in turn were used as religious vestments for the priests. Of course, leave it to ifirit to hand out the smackdowns. Not that I'm complaining, but damn. :/

You said that the "Red Devil" of SH4 is a representation of the helmet wearing executioners, and that this indicates their role in the order. First, The Sullivan Victim files give spotty information at best, being that they only tell you that this George Rosten manipulated Walter. Whether this manipulation was ritual, or if he did it for personal gain, we don't know. Second, Red Devil is a nickname and not a representation of the cult’s inner workings. Next, we don't even know if the executioners were part of the cult's priestly hierarchy, we've only got people wearing conical hoods which look similar to the pyramid helmet worn by the executioners. The similarities aren’t enough to draw a conclusion. The helmets worn by the executioners were just something they did, and even if they did wear the helmets for religious reasons, there is still no evidence for a connection between the priests and the executioners at all. No such thing is described anywhere in the books or games. But since you're saying that the particular type of priest, this "Red Devil", was is a representation of the helmet wearing executioners, exactly where do you get this information? At what point in what book, or even in the game, do they say that the priests are derived from the executioners?

I'm hoping that some explanation will be eventually provided for PH being in the movie, but I don't see the movie going back against the games. The movie, as far as I can tell, has its own continuity. Warning: Spawlers The Red Devil is mentioned in both SH2 and SH4, and according to the Sullivan Victims the only character with the nickname "Red Devil" is a certain George Rosten. Do you recall that James read about Walter Sullivan saying "the Red Devil made me do it! It was him! I swear?" Well, some people felt that was PH. But the Sullivan Victims explicity says that George Rosten raised Walter to be a killer. Thus the accusation that it was the "Red Devil" that made him do it points directly to George Rosten. As for PH appearing to other people, the BoLM specifically states the criteria for how the creature was created. Because of that, I find it highly unlikely that other people would reach the depth of James's feelings of guilt, and make another Pyramid Head for themselves. I just feel that it is dubious that if James could see PH then anybody could see PH, or their deep dirty secret could make it, even though its clothing is an intrinsic part of the town's history. We actually don't have enough information either way, although the fact that there had been trips to SH by other people without a Pyramid Head showing up would indicate even more that the same scenario happening is unlikely. Of course, being that SH5 will be released some time after the movie there is always the chance that due to pressure to appeal to the masses, Konami could throw in Pyramid Head. That would remove any doubt that James's specific criteria would have to be met in order for the creature to appear.

I am aware that the PH/RPT is part of James's mind, a product of it really, but the game specifies that the executioners were employed during the Civil War while the prison was still a POW camp. Yes, the clothing and the executioners are part of the towns history. They're part of the past. I don't really think the hooded executioners are still used in a mid-90's tourist attraction. Indeed, Red Pyramid Thing is the official name of the creature. James's name doesn't really mean much beyond what he had observed, a pet name if you will, whereas the name from The Book of Lost Memories is an official name given to the creature after the game was released. In short "Pyramid Head" is a misnomer in much the same way Imperial Star Destoryer is to Imperator Star Destroyer. That there are two Pyramid Heads in that last battle is no indication that more exist anywhere else. Due to the fact that much of what James encounters in the game is a reflection of his mind, it is very shakey to conclude that the creatures exist anywhere else for anyone else. For instance, when I tell my friends that my pink rabbit came by with his friend to visit, are they going to conclude that there must be piles of other pink rabbits out there or that I'm just fucking crazy? And that means what exactly? One is a misnomer and the other is the official name. Your definition doesn't exactly mean much to anybody. Well in my book Pyramid Head or Red Pyramind Thing only refers to the creature that appeared to James. Those are the most common names for a specific individual. To me, anything else that wears or looks like PH is referred to as an executioner, a person whom aside from wearing ceremonial execution robes, also wore a helmet during the executions. Technicall y it should be the other way around, and that the creature called Pyramind Head or Red Pyramind Thing looks like the executioners, since one preceeded the other. Also, I don't see how wearing a conical hood equates to being called a pyramid head. Now there certainly are connections between PH and Valtiel (apparently Valtiel's look is derived from ceremonial robes in the same way Alessa was actually wearing ceremonial robes), and as a result PH has some distant ties to the Cult of Valtiel sect. Yet that doesn't make the creature, or his image, anymore a part of a hierarchy than a priest outfit makes a man a priest. Basically I see no evidence for the "PHs", as I understand them, to be a fixture of the cult's hierarchy other than that a similar character appeared in a picture next to a guy who also had a weird cross on his face in the Sullivan Victims.

More than one executioner who wore the same outfit PH has, maybe. I don't ever recall reading that more than one Red Pyramid Thing existed.

What makes you think there are piles of other PHs?

His clothing is the same kind PH uses, but Jimmy Stone really isn't the same PH James sees.

Stardate 2006/18/03: People still think PH is part of the town's mythology. Too tired to battle against all people following that line of thinking. What shall I do?

I'd be able to tell if it were Cybil or not if the colored line covering up the supposed police badge were not there. That'd be the biggest teller right there of course. After all, it's a fucking charred corpse not a clean image.

Movie update: Monsters! Simply put, some posters have been released to the public showing three creatures that dwell in the Silent Hill Movie's universe. I cannot verify if the names are true or not, but the images are. Anyway, since I don't want to link to them directly they can be found here

I don't usually share anything with anybody, because I'm a very greedy and selfish person. But for once I broke through my egocentric thinking, and decided to post this...odd but somewhat hilarious video of PH. *WARNING: SPOILERS* PH owns a black cat, lives in a modern home, cuts his own grass, and lives a lonely life. http://youtube.com/watch?v=q2BhnkVoKvA

Avery/Gans logic was that PH's image is part of the town's history, therefore he exists intrinsically as part of the town. The equivalent of the character being Samael/God or even Valtiel.

So, I was mulling a bit over what has happened in the Silent Hill series. Here are some thoughs (highlight to read): It's been concluded before that the events in SH1 led to the strengthening/release of the town's dark power. Following this theory, the releasing of power lead to SH2, where James was called back to that town. This also explained Silent Hill 3, where Heather encountered alternate renditions of her world. By extension, the whole Walter Sullivan fiasco was a result of the town too because the town gave him the power to extend his reach beyond Silent Hill's borders. Is this correct or are we simply assuming too much? I mean, Walter was an ordinary killer (albeit a good one for the number of his victims). He had no supernatural powers on his own. There's no real reason for him to come back from the dead in the form of a dream-ghost, and the town's dark influence actually extending to other areas seems to be the most logical conclusion. Heather, on the other hand, carried a demon fetus. She had a direct tie to Silent Hill there, so who is to say that it wasn't the fetus's dark power that made her see things? Or, what if Claudia somehow influenced Heather's perception? Finally, James had some serious memories attatched to Silent Hill so you could say that in his delusionment and depression that he felt drawn to Silent Hill and that it wasn't necessarily the town that had a hand in pulling him in. The fact that he came back to the town doesn't necessarily mean that the town had any dark influence over him. But as a counterpoint, Eddie and Angela were pulled in to Silent Hill as well, seemingly without any previous experience there. I couldn't help but ponder these things.

Looks like I was late in posting mine anyway. >:

In going with Ifrit's post mentioning interviews GameTrailers has a...well...trailer for the Silent Hill Experience on the PSP. While it includes some interesting, albeit slightly neligible, features, it also has a snippet of an interview with Gans and Yamaoka. At any rate, it's a scrap of information (Gans opinion on the movie, I think, while Akira just sits there looking bored). I just thought I might point out that there's a trailer for Silent Hill Experience anyway. I had no idea there was one P.S. Good luck writing the guide to No Escape, Ifirit. I'm sure you'll do a good job, following in the trail blazed by PresidentEvil. P.P.S. Sorry about the mispelling.

Definitely an interesting twist, but as someone who liked PH because of his brawnyness I am a bit miffed that they made him thinner looking. Other than that the costume design is interesting as hell (although I have a slight quibble with the grating on the sides of his head, even then it's pretty A+)

So, let me get this really strange twist of events straight. You saw the link to his myspace profile, then in his profile you saw that he was part of the group "Silent Hill", finally you were browsing that group's lil forum and saw some of my posts there. That's the path I took to my profile, and I presume you did too. Until I followed that train of incidents, I just sat here in silence, listening to the wheels turn in my head and thinking "How in the hell was my profile found? That's a chance in a million I bet." To stroke my ego a little more (you did just say I was sharp, which is a big compliment coming from you) what posts were you referring to exactly in the Silent Hill group? I've posted a few times since then, but I couldn't think of many that stood out as being good examples of the discussions I've been in there. I'll have to give you back those respect points, however, because I did not actually assault anybody in the store. I used personal experience (sans the fist to face) to embellish a story which was done in the style of www.girlsarepretty.com At my store, irrationality and nitpicking rule the day. At the same time, an ounce of itelligence is worth a lot especially when the ridicule does start. :/

That was...different...

Etc. etc. etc. Sorry, double post. :/

WARNING: SPOILERS The episodes seem disjointed at first, but that's only if you look at them by themselves. The release of Samael allowed the towns power to grow (SH1), which lead to characters being pulled into Silent Hill (SH2), and during the intervening years the cult continued it's pursuit of Harry (SH3). SH4 is basically in it's own area, but it still has ties to the previous games. I see where you're coming from, but that's honestly not the things they are saying. For example, they aren't saying the Patient Demons were just inspired by a friend they saw walking down the hallway, but rather that the Patient Demons were created by James (and the power of the town) and represent X (X of course stands for the meaning that I forget, if I had time I could check what the meaning was specifically.) Another example are the winged creatures in SH1. They just aren't there to antagonize players, they are a manifestation of the pterodactyls that Alessa read about in the book The Lost World. So while some of the background information behind the creatures might be revealed (Patient Demon being inspired by friend), they are given a direct explanation as to what purpose they have in the story and why they are there. The creatures themselves probably wouldn't appear sexual, you're right. They would appear as something else because their manifestation relies partly on their state of mind, their feelings, and the town's dark power... EDIT: Also, I went back and read your post. I see I've misunderstood this little section. You're right about the movie, anyway. If we have the same monsters from the game appear in the movie, they probably wouldn't have the same reasoning behind them (i.e. PH couldn't be a part of James's mind in the movie if Rose is seeing him). Why should they have to tell you in the story? Why couldn't they have left the story for players to figure it out? SH2 is a bit like a puzzle, it has certain pieces that fit together, and the player needs to put them together. Second, this is not so much about a rule but rather going directly against a definition, if I'm thinking of the correct word. Think about it, a rule would be that if a person entires Silent Hill with dark feeling in their heart, that the town will manifest things for them to see. That much has been laid about by the creators. But the same kind of thinking can't be applied to characters. Harry Mason is a 40 something male who is searching for his daughter. That isn't a rule, it's a fact. Pyramid is, by defintion of his creatures, from James mind. Even if I'm wrong about the definition/rule thing in terms of how they would apply (i.e. whether one is really a rule or really a definition, or whether they are both definitions of some sort), that still doesn't change a thing about what certain characters/creatures are. However, you could come to the conclusion that James is a really selfish man for what he did, and is entirely deserving of the hell he's gone through and that perhaps he deserves to die. You could also say that Laura is a bit of a guide, or even a demon (figuratively) in the story. What you couldn't change is that she's just a young girl who is searching for the woman who wanted to adopt her. Likewise, you could say that PH is an angel/demon/truthseeker. But you'd also have to accept that it's existence is tied entirely to James. A lot of people feel that way, and unfortunately a lot of what is in Silent Hill can't be taken any other way. Certain creatures might carry symbolism with them, but they also have very unambiguous reasons for existing. Like I said, the issue with me isn't so much disagreeing with symbolism as it is with the facts. When people say Eddie had no point, or Laura was just an extra, they aren't understanding the character. When they say PH could show up for anybody because it's a part of the town's past, they don't understand that the creature was manifested due in part to James's feelings of guilt. Anyway, I don't claim to be the source on Silent Hill, I could be very wrong regarding the facts. There's probably a lot of ambiguity in Silent Hill that hasn't been explained, but I think that has more to do with symbolism and meaning.

No, it screamed Japanese to me because that's the only place I thought of it as coming from. My friend is really into Fulci and a variety of other Italian horror directors, so I could always grab some movies off of him. I'm sure he'd oblige. And in the process I could not only enrich my knowledge of Italian horror but perhaps Silent Hill too. Oh and having read a review of The Beyond (where the author went into details about the plot) that movie did use similar ideas to the ones in Silent Hill. But those similarities weren't enough for me to declare that SH was striving for a kind of horror beyonds its own. As a result I just kind of forgot about The Beyond and SH sharing any particular qualities. Thing is, some fan-made theories are backed up by what the creators have said. I realize that some theories are way off the mark, but other theories regarding creatures like PH have to fit more specific criteria. Some people will say that PH is intrinsically a part of James, while others will say that it doesn't matter because the creature's visage is part of the town's past. I believe the latter interpretation is failing to look at the big picture, but now isn't the time to dreg up that argument. Although I can easily recognize I'm a bit of a purist regarding SH, the details in The Book of Lost Memories are sometimes too concrete to be taken any other way. There are certain aspects of the game that cannot be interpreted another way, although the same aspects may carry several meanings such as the purpose of Laura, Eddie, Douglas or Alessa. As far as I know SH movie is in a world of it's own, and therefore I won't hold it to the same level as the games themselves. If the film tried to continue the game's general continuum it probably wouldn't have succeeded anyway.

You have no idea what I'm talking about? If so, please read my post again carefully. If I can see the entire hallway she's in rather well, that's too bright. SH has consistently had hard-to-see-locales. Fortunately that won't make or break the film, but it'll remove the tension because you'll be able to see everything and leave nothing to the imagination...which is something that the first Silent Hill was all about! Actually a lot of the films they pull from are American, although having not the full list of movies that actually influenced Silent Hill on hand, I can't say how many European-style films are there. In terms of American films we're talking like Jacob's Ladder, Muholland Drive, Strange Highways, etc. Erm, Indie films then? I don't exactly recall that the creators were trying to emulate European horror in the first place, so that's news to me. Anyway, the movie is made by a Frenchman and he's probably pulling from the style that he knows. Frankly there's nothing wrong with that although I wouldn't expect many people (i.e. American audiences) to sit comfortably with another style than their own. Speaking purely in terms of my own experience with something not pop-horror, I did enjoy Ringu and that was my first experience with Japanese horror. Perhaps my first experience of European horror based on a Japanese game will go well too. P.S. I watched the trailer again. I still think the film is too bright. >: At the same time I'm realizing that I'm probably not giving Gans credit enough, he has managed to capture the look of the games pretty well (more so than I thought the first time around, although I loved the grain filter), and from what I can glean from the trailer the story looks in place enough too. Also, Silent Hill in West Virginia? Hmm.

Some of my thoughts mirror Ifrit's. I definitely feel more skeptical concerning some of the dialogue. Second, my other complaint stems from the trailer: the film is too "bright". They seem to have done the same thing that was done with Alien: Ressurection, and that's being able to see everything. Period. I never thought that the darkened hallways of Silent Hill would ever be so well lit. On the other hand the creatures all look fine and dandy, but even then I can still see them too well. I think Gans should have taken a page from Alien regarding lightining... But I can't write the film off yet, nor can I let myself get hung up on aethetics. Afterall, I would have never played the first Silent Hill if I thought about how grainy everything looked...