Crowbar Man
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Posts posted by Crowbar Man
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- You buy game, download it to your XBOX HDD and register it to your XBOX live account.
- Friend borrows CD, has to pay full price (according to sources by Blue Magic in earlier posts) and than has to register through XBOX live and download to own HDD.
Incorrect on the 2nd part if you mean just play it together. The game is tied to your XBL account, so you can sign into your friends Xbox and you can install it and play it together, but as soon as you sign out the game will not launch anymore. This is similar to how XBLA games already work. Now if your friend wants to play it without you being signed in, yes, he will have to buy it.
There is an option to sell/trade licenses but MS has not specified how this will work.
You can not lend games out in a normal fashion (which is another thing that sucks) but you can come over to someones house and play it just fine.
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Yeah, I'd have to say I'm still rooting for the Wii U here after the Xbox One stuff. It is the only "normal" console out of the three. Still undecided about PS4 (Need to see some more games, prices, etc) but Xbox One is leaving a pretty bad taste in my mouth (especially with no games, maybe might change after E3 shows some games)
If Nintendo shows off some killer apps during this E3, and PS4/Xbox One wind up being outrageous in price, Nintendo might be able to turn around this holiday season once the games start pumping out.
Maybe. We'll see!
Though Nintendo still needs to fix their eShop no matter what. The only "Good" thing about PS4/XBO is the digital front end of everything is far better than the eShop setup right now.
As far as EA, I'll repeat: As soon as there is an installed base TO sell games to, EA will be making games on Wii U
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Zircon: MS had a FAQ up stating it required an online connection but it wasn't always online. It also said you had to activate onetime activation codes on your XBL account. Another MS rep said it had to check in every once in a while "about 24 hours". The FAQ was mysteriously removed, and they are downplaying the time period thing.
They also said they are enabling the trading/selling of the license, but are giving no details at this time.
Sounds like damage control to downplay the bad elements
New tidbit:
No BC on Accessories
Well, I wouldn't of expected the Kinect to work obviously but since the controller is pretty much the same I would of thought you could use the old 360 ones on the XBO. Apparently not :/ Nothing for 360 works on XBO
Oh, I know I'm in the minority, but that just makes me all the more upset. (I was reading an article the other day about people using their iPads of all things to hold up in front of their faces and take pictures, and I was like...do you realize what massive idiots you look like right now?) The average user has little to no appreciation for the actual quality of the individual features they're using; they're willing to give up functionality for the sake of convenience. I, on the other hand, am not.
I just don't get this elitist attitude, and honestly you're just kinda ranting at this point. Exactly what functionality am I giving up on my smartphone in exchange for being able to take pictures and play games? What functionality are consoles giving up in exchange for having integrated internet browsers, Skype, Facebook, Netflix, whatever?
I can see getting a better dedicated camera to have better pictures, and a dedicated handheld/console to play more in depth games... but that is what these are. Wii U/XBO/PS4 are the best console/set top boxes for playing games. You wont be able to buy a "better" one in this case because these ARE the "dedicated"/"better" ones (subjectively compared to say, Roku,GoogleTV,AppleTV,etc that are set top boxes that can play games). This is all you have to choose from in this generation.
The bonus to all these devices having extra features is just that: Extra features. whether its a camera on a phone or a browser on a console, they are just extra things you can use on a device you are using for something else to increase convenience/worth of the device. Being able to take a quick picture of something while you are JUST carrying a phone for example is a great convenience because you are usually always carrying a phone and rarely carrying a camera. If your sitting in font of your (game or watching) TV and want to check the weather, a console having a browser is more convenient than running up to a PC or going to use another device. Etc
My only issue with consoles having extra features is it still has to have games: Wii U has Nintendo, obviously going to be games in the future as Nintendo is the only company of the three that gaming is their lifeblood. Sony has a few 1st party games up there sleeves and already showed off a few, on top of the usual strong 3rd party support. MS showed off... watching TV :/ E3 is right around the corner though, so maybe they are saving all the goodies for them.
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I don't mind if a console has lots of extra bells and whistles added to it, that is fine. I wont complain about extra things it can do
However the most important thing for consoles used to be being able to just buy a game (even used!) popping it in and just enjoying, and you could do this even if you didn't have internet at home (or heck in a certain part of your house)
Seems those days of simplicity are gone and we are looking at set top boxes (and honestly, almost PCs at this point) with crazy DRM schemes attached to them instead of gaming consoles. A very small section of the population doesn't even have internet, so they simply wont be able to play these new consoles and that's ridiculous.
Consoles were once a place where crappy DRM didn't effect you, it was all kinda behind the scenes. Now its THE ENTIRE SYSTEM.
I am thankful at least there is a 24 hour grace period (if that is accurate) but at the same time, why should we have to deal with it at all?
There isn't any benefits to the customer really. The 360 could basically do everything the XBO could do without the new DRM added. The only thing XBO can do that the 360 couldn't is play a game without the disc in the tray (well, unless you bought it digitally, then it could do that too!)
Steam? Tons of benefits. Absolutely tons of benefits. So you can say "Its just like Steam" but its nothing like Steam by any stretch of imagination, and Steam is just an option .
Now BEYOND that DRM Issue:
They sure did completely focus on its nongaming side. As a gamer, all I care about is games... we'll see what they have to show off at E3 I guess?
Controller:
Force feedback in the triggers is interesting, and I welcome the improved design, but I'm surprised to see no gyros at all in the controller? I mean, its gimmicky usually but you come to expect motion built into the controller these days. Guess the Kinect 2 is their answer to that but meh. Wasn't a fan of Kinect. Maybe Kinect 2 will change that
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From what I heard this is going to work exactly the same as Steam. You connect once, then you work in Offline mode for a while. Or you don't, as earlier Steam stories have shown.
There is no offline mode for the Xbox One, so you heard wrong! Xbox One requires you to be online, it just has about a 24 hour tolerance before it refuses to work.
Steam's offline mode working or not is a glitch/issue. Its intended function is to allow you to play games offline.
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Sounds like its problematic rather than an impossibility. Point stands, there is an option for offline on Steam, it is not an always on DRM
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Firstly, do I have to really explain the differences between a console and a PC?
Second of all, do I have to explain the differences between Steam prices and XBL/PSN prices?
Thirdly, I'll have to test offline mode tonight, but last time i used it it worked just fine. You may have to enable it BEFORE you go offline though
Fourth (most important): There is the fact you can get games from ANY place on a PC, GOG has no DRM etc. You can only get games for Xbox One / PS4 through their DRM system.
Steam is a choice for PC. A pretty good choice, but not the only one.
PSN/XBL aren't choices. They are a requirement to use the consoles. Heck we dont know HOW Much will be disabled in the 24 hour period, you may not even be able to use your BD/DVD for all we know. (Hopefully that isn't the case). You sure as heck can use your non-steam applications/games on a PC. Steam isn't a gatekeeper to the entire system by any means.
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PS4 doesn't block used games.
That we know of. They haven't given us all the details of PS4 yet. I have a feeling they were waiting for MS to state how they are doing it first.
Where are you getting this from? Microsoft said the game can't be installed on two accounts, not that you can't re-sell it. In fact someone from the Official Xbox Magazine explicitly said that reselling is fine, they would just de-auth the original account. Almost all music software works like this and there is a healthy secondhand market for it.Games come with a one time use code that ties to an account. The disc isn't worth anything. You could sell it I guess but it wont do anything without buying a license. MS has said you can trade/sell the license, but they have not given details on how this works. I'm sure it wont be as convenient as just taking the game to a store and selling and therefore cutting out used games as we know them for your average Joe.
Steam has an offline mode. Any games that support it works, but it is up to the publisher whether it works or not. Most do though. Not quite the same
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Just like all DRM schemes, they are solely created to satisfy publishers and stockholders. The customer is never taken into account
Its no secret that publishers hate used games and have wanted MS/Sony to stop them, and they've been coming up with ways to stop them themselves
They've finally got what they want
This is why EA is stopping Online Codes BTW. The PS4/XBO make it unnecessary as used games as we know them now will no longer exist.
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The games wont stop functioning if your connection craps out. They just stop launching if you don't connect in 24 hours (or maybe the unit itself will refuse to do anything until you connect? not sure) Sucks either way but its not as terrible as "always online" like SimCity 5. That is a whole other level of terribleness
But we are still measuring one evil over another at the end of the day :/
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Frankly I'm more concerned that they will continue the stupid BS with Xbox Gold, for example not allowing Netflix streaming without paying an Xbox monthly fee. If they do that, I have 0 interest in the One, and will probably just get a PS4.
Yeah that IS a good question. Charge for online gaming, whatever, but charging to use services you are already paying for is ridiculous.
Though, I wouldn't assume the PS4 services are without charge just yet, Sony has been tight lipped. It would be dumb of them as that was one of the main selling points of PS3, but Sony doesn't always do smart things.
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Well, depends is it stable enough to connect once in 24 hours? If not, then yeah, this unit won't work (also yikes! Sorry to hear that)
I don't like the concept of an internet requirement at ALL. But at least a 24 hour time span (if true) isn't too too bad.
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From the info I've gathered so far:
How Games on Xbox One Work: (And probably PS4)
You buy an Xbox One game. It comes with a one time activation code. You use this code in your XBL account, giving you permission to install this game. You then can use the disc to install the game (and maybe redownload it online if your disc breaks?). The disc is then basically never used again.
Playing a game at a friends house:
You CAN bring the disc over to a friends house to play, however you must sign into XBL in order for it to install/play, and once you sign out the game cannot be played. I assume you can probably only sign into one XBO at a time. If your friend wants the game, he can buy a license for it off XBL.
Selling the game:
MS is claiming they will have a system for you to trade/sell this license. More details coming soon, but it is interesting they are giving this option as it makes the bite a little less severe
Internet Connection Requirement:
You do not need "always online" connection, just at least once every 24 hours. It still sucks it requires it all though. Losing internet connectivity does not stop activities on the unit until 24 hours pass. Then you will be required to sign back into Live.
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Well, I called the whole BC thing. I also called the XBLA games not working on the new console.
Wish i wasn't right in these cases though :/
For those who would like a technical explanation: BC is generally done by including previous generation's CPU and/or GPU.
Examples:
Genesis uses the SMS's CPU as a sound processor.
PS2 used PS1's CPU as an I/O processor
GBA uses the GB's CPU as a sound processor
DS uses the GBA's CPU as a sound processor (Plus its CPU in the same family, with built in BC)
DSi uses basically an overclocked DS's processor
Wii uses uses basically an overclocked GCN processor
3DS uses a processor in the same family as the DS with backwards compatibility built in
Wii U uses a really enhanced version of the same processor in the GCN/Wii, just faster and multi core but with the same compatibility
All of these consoles/handhelds GPU have also been designed with backwards compatibility.
PS3: Complete architecture change (EE to Cell CPU). Sony initially just included both the EE (CPU) and the GS (GPU) solely for BC but this was very costly for Sony to do. They eventually removed the EE in some models (using some emu but hitting compatibility) but they still included the GS (GPU). Even including the GS was seen as a burden to cost so all new models have both chips completely removed and cant run PS2 games.
360: Complete architecture change (x86 to PPC CPU). They didn't want to spend money including hardware for BC (an Intel and nVidia chip would of been really expensive), so MS instead had to write emulators to run Xbox games on the 360. This was a very slow process, with only a small list at first. It grew but never was 100%, and there are many issues with some of the ones that made it.
PS4: Complete architecture change (Cell to x86 CPU): They would have to include the Cell and/or the RSX. Emu: Probably not even possible. BC: Not happening
XBO: Complete architecture change (PPC to x86 CPU): They would have to include the Xeon and/or the Xenos. Emu: Probably not even possible. BC: Not happening
Both Sony/MS have probably realized at this point instead of spending time/money on making the system backwards compatible, they can just port games and then recharge you for the same games in "HD" .. or not any different! Horray!
That being said, I expect the next next generation to be using x86 CPUs, therefor BC will return eventually and probably stick around forever
As far as this conference: Okay the PS4 had some stuff that was "not for me", and I understand that, but there was still some interesting things shown of and importantly: Some games.
Xbox One Conference: Literally most of the conference was them watching TV on the Xbox One. I may be an odd man out, but I do not even have a TV service in my house, so all those features would be useless to me. However, I guess if I didn't just want to play videogames, it would be pretty cool? Seems an odd angle to sell a game console. But maybe that is the issue? It isn't a game console its more of a set top box. I guess market safety in case they destroy the console market in the process? Dunno, I'd love to give every console a positive spin, but its really hard to find any positives for gaming here, especially when the only games they showed off were racing and CoD (again not for me). Maybe E3 they will show off something?
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oh shit testibles
EDIT:
I didn't post that, but I find it too funny to delete. How did this manage to happen? lol
EDIT2:
Never mind, Gman did it, mystery solved
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Not sure if I am included in the "three" you mentioned, but I have no idea where you got that I think Nintendo is doing well, and doing a good job. Nintendo is doing a terrible job on multiple fronts (online network, OS updates, DRM with eShop, advertising, and the console itself leaves things to be desired), that is why they are floundering right now. However, if they create a bunch of fun and awesome games (like they, being Nintendo, TEND to do) and maybe drop the price a bit, then their situation can easily turn around, like the 3DS.
A boring company like EA isn't going to save them. Nobody is going to buy a Wii U to play more Madden. Nintendo is the one that needs to save themselves
If they screw up the one thing they are good at (Making games) then the Wii U is pretty much going to falter
EDIT:
Nintendo made these flyers after focus groups couldn't identify differences between the two systems.This is a failure on the part of Nintendo to distinguish the Wii U from the Wii. They showed off the controller too much and didn't make a big deal about the console. They also named it too similar to the Wii, and this whole thing backfired because there is still a large misconception that the Wii U is just an add on for the Wii and this is hurting Nintendo's sales. Nintendo is actively trying to fight this by educating retailers.
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I have a 3DS. It is a controller with two screens. Nintendo clearly has the tech to give us two screens, why dont they?
They did? Its called the 3DS and the Wii U. Ones a portable with low end graphics, one is a console with higher end graphics. I don't really understand what you are trying to say
I am pointing out that a gimmicky screen is really just that. A gimmick. There is no reason to sing the WiiU's praises when the only things it has going for it is a handful of meager to mediocre at best ports, a Mario game that, just like the 3DS version is a rehash, and a theme park game that gives you nostalgia goggles for good Nintendo games long past.Controllers dont sell systems. Games do.
And obviously no games are coming out for it. Not the games they keep showing off, and the new (real) Mario they will show at E3. Nope. THE LAUNCH GAMES WERE ALL THEY HAD PLANNED AND NOW THEY ARE DOOMED!
As mentioned before, unlike the Wii controller, even if you ignore the gimmicks on the Wii U's controller: It is a fully functional traditional controller regardless.
. I don't buy a system unless it has 5 games that I want that are exclusive to that system. At this time there are 2 that I want. Pikmin and Bayonetta.Then wait until 5 exclusive games come out? Its a Nintendo console, there will be plenty of exclusive games FROM NINTENDO coming out on it.
And no, no one wants Sonic. And even if I did, Sega stated there would be a port to the 3DS. Moot Point.Correction: Nobody wants a bad Sonic. That is just all Sega has been able to make for the last decade or so. Everybody would crap their pants if an actual good Sonic came out, but chances are slim to none of that happening.
Also. There hasn't been a new Zelda game since Ocarina.Which was more or less a remake of Link to the Past. Regardless, almost every Zelda game is still top notch.
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A lot of people said that about the Wii's controller too. Look where that got them.
A lot of fun and interesting games from Nintendo?
Sure there were a lot of waggly gimmicks, but over all the Wii has a pretty great library. There are even a few 3rd party games that make good use of the controller.
The problem with the Wii is it didn't even DO what was advertised: The motion control was lack luster and not accurate to say the least. You can't get a good gaming experience, and the best games on the Wii barely even used the motion controls. People still bought it though so apparently it didn't matter to most people
The Wii U is much better in this regard: It has Motion+ (which is much much better for accuracy) for motion crap, and its unique controller is just a REGULAR controller with 2nd screen and it has touch (only single point, but it works as well as DS which also uses single touch) and a few other bells and whistles. So far it is delivering what was promised in the control department much better than the Wii did. It has legitimate benefits to gaming while still offering a very traditional layout
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When the PS4/Durago arrive, the Wii U will be pretty much mirror the situation with Wii and PS3/360.
Lower end games, Nintendo games, games that use the special controller. The Wii did not get all the high end multi platform games unless they were severely downgraded to work on it. The only reason that even happened was the GIGANTIC INSTALLED BASE (this is what the Wii U is missing)
At that point I would expect even LESS multi console support in the future as eventually even PS3/360 will get dropped from the "Multi console support" lists. It will become PS4/Durango for AAA mutli games
Its been known for a while that the Wii U would not be competing against the next gen in terms of raw power. So again, any body buying it not understanding did very little research on the subject, and must have a lot of pocket change
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Losing EA is a big deal, I can't believe people try to argue against that. EA probably doesn't sell consoles, but the lack of FIFA, Madden and other stuff may lead people to buy other consoles over Wii U. I love how some people live in some dream world where everyone can buy 2 or even 3 >$350 consoles like it's nothing.
Wii U is the only console that costs $300-350 between the PS3/360/Wii U. 360 is dirt cheap, and PS3 is getting cheaper and cheaper. They've also been out for 6 plus years, so its hard to believe someone who wants multi platform games has been sitting around for 6+ years without a console, and would go out and buy an expensive $350 Wii U when there are cheaper options available with much larger libraries of games.
If you cannot afford multiple consoles, why would you choose the most expensive one with the least amount of games available?
The reason to buy a Wii U is because of the potential of what developers can do with the controller, and the expectations of new Nintendo games. If you bought it to the same play 3rd party games you can get anywhere else, again probably the worst decision you could make.
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Also also, I hate to break it to you, but the majority of bottom feeding troglodytes that will buy anything labeled Brown shooter, far outweigh the very small by comparison minority of people that think otherwise. Publishers know this because they can make a hell of a lot more money just cashing in than producing "works of art." Games are mainstream now and folks like us that enjoy the works of art that came before are aged dinosaurs.
Well, those type of people are probably less likely to buy anything Nintendo develops or probably already have 360/PS3 and will buy a Durango/PS4. So honestly, I'm not sure if it is even worth putting those games on the Wii U.
EA is about easy money, and the Wii U didn't get the return they wanted (even if it was their fault for putting no effort into the ports to begin with). So they are refocusing on making money on EVEN EASIER PORTS (PS4/Durango should be extremely easy to port the PC versions of their games) to make themselves more money instead of putting any more effort into the Wii U. It makes sense from a business prospective, but not a nice thing to do to consumers. EA rarely cares about consumers, so this is what they are doing
As I mentioned earlier, since EA didn't put any effort into their Wii U products, there isn't any benefit to the consumer to buy their products on the Wii U over the PS3/360. No benefit to the consumer, no benefit to EA, its really a wash to anybody except those who just happen to never bought a 360/PS3, yet for some reason wants games that are on those consoles.
Once the installed base for the Wii U shoots up to something EA feels they can make easy money on, I'm sure they will start developing on it again. That is the largest problem right now, Wii U isn't selling (which unfortunately is Nintendo's fault by MULTIPLE factors)
If not, its just less less sports and brown shooters on the Wii U. Not really a big deal IMO. You can get those any platform. What you CAN NOT get on other platforms is Nintendo's games and games exclusive to the Wii U. Um... as soon as Nintendo gets around to making them
The only part that is really really bad for Nintendo is it LOOKS bad in the public eye. If they lose consumer confidence on TOP of having no games, the Wii U will take even longer to recover. But leave it to EA to kick someone while they are down
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I have a feeling the only reason they discontinued their Online Pass program is because Sony/MS might have something similar up their sleeve next gen for all games by default (Sony already does something similar on a few games)
I wouldn't count on it being out of the goodness of their hearts yet.
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It is unfortunate all your free goodies disappear when you stop subscribing. But discounts + free games + beta stuff + extra other stuff is still a pretty nice deal overall (Compared to MS who charges you just for the priveldge of online play and using your own services you've already paid for elsewhere **grumble grumble** . Cross chat and better servers, but :/)
As far as the content moving over to PS4 well, that too is unfortunate, but the PS4 is a completely different architecture. Going forward from PS4->PS5 is more than likely going to continue with x86 based processors, so this shouldn't be an issue next next gen. Hopefully at least!
I can almost garuntee that unless MS has some magic, XBLA games might not work on the next Xbox either (switching from PPC to x86). Guess we'll find out on Tuesday
Either way, all those services are STILL superior to the way the eShop works... next gen platform? You can't even move content over on the SAME platform without special magic/permission from Nintendo due to the content being completely tied to your console and not an account :/
I hope they fix that because it effects both the 3DS and the Wii U and holding many people back from touching their digital services, which have improved dramatically in their offerings and usability over the WiiWare/DSi Ware outing but still have this MAJOR flaw. Nintendo has mentioned in the future this might change, but for now it is what it is.
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Yeah PSN does seem the better out of the 3 in terms of pricing, especially if you get PSN+ its pretty awesome (free games!). Hoping they continue that with PS4 and the other 2 make their prices more competitive
Ocre : Yeah sums up Brandon's statements so far. Is he serious or is he trolling at this point?
Nintendo Wii U
in General Discussion
Posted · Edited by Crowbar Man
I believe its just exclusive content (Modes/DLC) unless I'm missing something? I think he internet would be ablaze if EA announced exclusive games to Xbox One. Wouldn't make much financial sense for EA being a publisher who loves multiform releases