Night10194

I will admit I'm not terribly far into the game yet, but I'm enjoying SH4 a great deal. It certainly beats SH3. I'm a little unhappy with the ghosts, but I can deal with 'em, and the controls...they're a godsend! FINALLY pushing the stick one way, moves me THAT way! God, did I ever hate the tank controls. Now I can dodge and move much more easily then ever before, and so far, the atmosphere, story, and such seem quite neat. Again, better then the abyssmal (in relation to 1 and 2) failure that was 3...

SH2 was, indeed, a tearjerker. Did you get the Maria or the Leave ending?

SH3 was the worst in the series, and honestly, had the crappiest story...if you can find 1 or 2, try those, instead. Trust me, you'll be happier.

It's good to see people being considerate about the spoilers. I have to wait until the 21st to get SH4, and I'm really hoping to go into it without knowing much.

Hey, is it true that there're only 4 or so days until SH4 comes out?

You know what else is a bit irritating, though? I came back to checking this topic just in time for all the delightful soundtrack and music links to change or go down. I'm stuck streaming the trailor to hear that delightfully creepy, sad lullaby song. If anyone has a link to it...

You know what...? I have a crazy, crazy, probably unfounded theory about Henry of SH4, and that little radio broadcast in the trailer. SH 4 Speculation! Refers to trailer! May be thought of as Spoiler! Warning! Okay, that's over, now. I think the wounded woman, the one who died outside the town of South Ashfield...think that might be...Angela? We never see her die. She just runs up the burning stairs. And since she was found with 'murder' victims, Eddy may've been nearby, before hand, possibly. Since she was found near said bodies, and the hotel WAS near the lake, etc. Why do I think this? Because, I honestly think Henry may be Angela's brother, etc. He...looks a bit like her. Perhaps I'm speculating wildly, but that's a favored hobby of us SH fans, eh?

I always had the strangest of theories about Maria. When I came up with mine, it made me so sad I cried a bit, even. I always had a theory that Maria is entirely a creation of the town, but that she is, indeed, a free-willed human. Certainly, the town revives her when she dies at the hands of the Pyramid Heads, but even then she is still human. She seems actually confused that she has some of Mary's memories, even. She's a human who was called into existance in a place full of nightmarish monsters and hellish pain, constantly being killed again and again to punish James. Now, the force that created her keeps telling her that she'll eventually leave this hell with him, have someone who will love her and protect her (Remember what she tells him in the hospital? "You were supposed to take care of me...!"), and who will take her away from all this. In return, she'll make him happy again, help heal him...but then, when it comes to that, he doesn't do what he's supposed to. He realizes what has happened, and realizes he can't accept her and still atone for his crime. This is why she attacks him, in grief and desperation, but not why she becomes a monster. It's James's altered perception of her, his knowledge that the town did, indeed, create her, and his knowledge of what the creations of the town ARE (demons and horrors) that transform her into a monster. Certainly, he HAS to see her like this in order to ever be able to sever his connection to this evil town and to atone for his sin. But it remains that Maria was human, and that her one hope of escape and happiness not only was forced to cast her aside, but also came to see her as a demon, and even something he needed to kill violently. Sad, huh?

Great song. Truly great song.

A Silent Hill MUD? Could be neat...I'd be interested.

Silent Hill is frightening for the implications of the story, to me. James is a frightening protagonist simply because I can somewhat understand why he did what he did. Resident Evil is not scary because it has atrocious voice acting, silly looking critters, and stupid plots.

Lord, I have sinned, for I have been tempted sorely to attempt a fanfiction idea on SH, after I long ago swore off that sort of thing. Does this make me a horrible person?

I just wanted to say thank you to all the people in this thread for the wonderful and earnest discussion we have going on. It's quite interesting and enlightening. So...thanks!

Hmmm...the idea of the execution of Maria/Mary is interesting. Very interesting. After all, remember how you end the battle? James taking one last shot/whatever to finish off Maria/Mary? I'm not exactly sure how that fits in, but especially with execution in mind, finishing the battle execution style would seem to have some significance. WAIT! If it's Mary, than he's doing what he did before. She is down, she was causing him great pain, he wants her to be gone for good...so he finishes her off AGAIN. As Maria says "You killed Mary again?". Maybe that's what Silent Hill has been trying to get him to do, if it can't kill him. It's making him re-commit his crime, but accept it this time and leave with his 'reward', Maria. Notice how she coughs at the end? Perhaps the town is going to repeat the whole cycle again, with Maria this time...? If it's Maria, he has decided to cast her off. He doesn't want to leave it to doubt whether or not he's destroyed her, he wants her dead and gone so he can move on. That's why he has to kill her and make certain of it: He wants to destroy the town's influence on him the same way he tried to sever his tie to Mary when she caused him pain. Only, this time, it more represents a rejection and a severing of a tie that didn't really exist yet. A rejection of everything the town brought out in him, so that he can move on. I dunno, that's a bit odd, the Maria part...but I think that Mary idea is pretty solid.

Me neither, Starzander...but that doesn't mean they didn't read 'em. Cheer up, friend.

A prudent plan.

Why the floaty women in the box? I know that, it's easy. Mary was bedridden, right? She was tied to her bed, looked like a monster (or felt like one), as she told James. It was a representation of all of the "demonic" aspects of Mary. She's also trying to drag James with her, keep him tied to her torture. In the case of Maria, she's a monster now, and tied to the torment she's suffering forever because James tossed her aside. Thus, she's tied to the torture bed, and is trying to take James down with her, as Mary would be if he found Mary to be the demon.

SPOILER! Revelation about Maria and why she becomes a demon. Think on it...Silent Hill feeds on the perceptions of the person involved, creating monsters and things based on their mind, right? Well, when James realizes Maria is created by the town, and that she's a false Mary. Well, everything else the town created was a demon, right? So naturally, Maria changes into one as well once he realizes the situation...God, that's awful for her.

About James and the suicide. I understand how he feels, in a way. In his case, I don't believe he feels he's killing himself to escape, I think he wants to kill himself to punish himself for his crime. He wants to execute himself for his own fault, deciding he can't possibly redeem as awful a crime as he has comitted. Still, I can't say I believe it to be the right way. Angela and Eddie, as I tried to show, are foils for James, showing how some people dodge blame and refuse redemption for their "crimes". James is the one standing in the middle of attacking the world and blaming it like Eddie, or running from it all and ending his life like Angela. He has a choice to do so, or to find his way and survive, to live and redeem himself. Perhaps it's just the personal disgust I feel at the idea of suicide, but I believe James is supposed to reject it. Did any of that make sense?

Time for a long, spoiler filled post with my crazy ideas on SH2! If you haven't played it yet, don't read this...! Also, this assumes the "leave" ending, as I believe that one's the true victory. Anyhow, we will begin with the nightmarish pyramid heads, and what the hell they are. Does anyone remember the pictures in Toluca prison? Of the pyramid-head in the hanging yard? Or the way the pyramid heads kill themselves when James defeats them? Think about it...perhaps it's their head now, but that pyramid might've originally been some kind of helmet worn by executioners. This is an odd stretch, but it also makes sense. If we accept the theory that all of the monsters are created by memories, hatreds, etc, and that James sees monster that look like twisted, deformed, mutilated, insane, disgusting humans (representations of his aversion to the appearance of his diseased wife), yet can defeat all of them relatively easily...it would make sense that the monsters he can't hurt are the ones he didn't make. Also, these things seem assigned to punish him. They kill Maria, who he very much wishes to protect, multiple times, they try to execute him...and they were also seen by Walter Sullivan, a murderer who committed suicide to avoid their wrath. Perhaps they are the town's dark, twisted idea of torturers and executioners? I know it's an odd theory, but it seems to work. Maria is the most tragic character in the story. Again, an odd theory, but remember who she is. She's born of James's wish for what he wished Mary had been all the time, someone beautiful, vibrant, and attracted to him. She's what he wanted, or the town's version of it. Which also explains her appearance. She's just like Mary, but very slightly differant (hair and clothes) as a physical representation of what she is. Anyhow, onto why she's so tragic. She is, for all intents and purposes, a person. She seems to be, at least. She has firm expectations of what James is supposed to mean to her, too. He's supposed to accept her, love her, protect her, and leave this Silent Hill place with her, to be happy (if only for the short term) with her. Instead, he realizes what she is and casts her away, accepting responsibility for his crime of killing Mary and trying to repent and redeem himself. But what about Maria? As I said, she's a person now, who had no choice to be created like this, and who is killed, tortured, strung along, and eventually cast aside by the man who was supposed to take her to love and protect, and instead destroys her. I think this is why she attacks him in the end. She's unable to let him leave without her, she NEEDS him now. It's a desperate act to try to fulfill what she thought was her fate, to force the hand of who she thought would become her lover, or to kill them both in the process. As you can see, I obviously felt rather bad for Maria, but there was no other way. Accepting her would've been denying his crimes, and James has also learned better than to bargain with the forces in Silent Hill by now, realizing they mean nothing but temptation and eventual self destruction (look at Angela and Eddie). This is why James survives...he realizes that he has to take responsibility and move on. Angela runs away in her own way, killing herself. Eddie claims the world is at fault and has it coming, and tries to attack it in desperation, losing a shooting match with James as a result. James, though, sees the town for what it really is ("I understand now...") and realizes he must leave, though he is given a chance to make peace with the dead first. He does so, finally admitting the truth to himself and Mary, and finding through it it isn't really the whole truth, that he can infact be redeemed, and that she wants him to be. Thus, he fulfills her wish to take care of and protect Laura as a last favor, and goes on, leaving this town before it and its false promises destroy him like it did Eddie and Angela. Also, as with regards to James being "whiney". The man is in horrible pain mentally, reconciling his own crime, forced to admit it, terrified by the abberations of flesh and bone contantly trying to rip him to shreds, unsure of his own sanity, and trapped in a literal Silent Hell, kept going only by what seemingly proves somewhat of a false hope. If he weren't hesitant and tortured-sounding, I'd be pretty damned diappointed. Try to put yourself in the character's shoes before accusing them of being whiney sissies or things. I'm not even sure I could take his predicament at all, myself. On a really odd and creepy side note, James looks frighteningly like me...

Oh, and this Silent Hill comic that came up earlier? Pray tell where it was from, please?

Just got Silent Hill 2 for the PC...I'll provide my crazed Englisher's analysis as soon as I get far enough. Glad to see so much interesting discussion on this extremely intriguing series.

The cynic in me says that Harry's calm is just a bad voice actor. I like my other theory better, though. Alessa...yes, that's a theory, but...I just don't buy it, personally. Were it Alessa in charge, Harry would be a dead man by now. Alessa has no attachment to Harry, Cheryl does. Cheryl doesn't want her father dead, she just wants him to not find her and lead those evil cult folks to her...

There's PC Silent Hill! Hurrah! Tis madness and joy and more macabre madness and horror! I shall try to find it as soon as I can. I'm really looking forward to 2 and 3. Oh, and on the note of the idea that it isn't the first time Harry has been in Silent Hill...didn't he go there with his daughter for vacations and things before? Perhaps...perhaps he doesn't REALLY remember, but he already has seen similar hell and horror the previous times he visited? And in the back of his subconscious, he knows he's seen it all before? And I don't buy the idea of the Next Fear games having anything to do with Harry's experiences, honestly. I understand the logic, but it just rubs me the wrong way to think the poor fellow has no way out. Ever. And as to the White Claudia angle, it just cannot be discounted...especially considering Lisa's experiences with it and the descriptions of things like the faucets dripping pus and blood. However...the fact that he encounters Kauffman and Lisa (Whom he didn't know) bespeaks that he isn't just hopped up on White Claudia. After all, where else would they come from? But the one thing that I can't get over...he died in that dark alleyway. How the hell did he suddenly wake up in the cafe, fine? Hmmm...

Oh, and on the questions on the plot...Silent Hill 1: What the hell is it about? Well...I have my own crazed theory, which may only exist because of what I myself am writing... But I don't think a single damned whit of it was real. The conflict with Alyessa and all, yes, that's probably there (If only due to the existance of SH3)...but what happens to Harry isn't. I know that sounds odd, but...Harry is a 32 year old man who's never fired a gun before in his life, never had to fight for his life before. Yet he presses on into this nightmarish hell, fighting for his life and sanity the whole way, to save his beloved daughter. Hurrah for him, I say, but I don't buy that he could possibly succeed. The odds are too far gone against him. However...if you accept the theory that this fight is going on outside of normal reality, that it's taking place in some crazed nightmare of a dream, than his success becomes infinitely more feasible. Yes, there are chinks in this idea. One of the main ones is actually the existance of Cybil. But that's easily explained: Remember the empty bike in the beginning? There WAS a blood-stain next to it. Cybil took a wrong turn and had a nasty fall. That's all. But Harry remembered seeing her, and thought it plausible that she'd be in the town, too. However, as he saw in the beginning of his nightmare, he's going to need weapons etc to survive. Lo! Here comes Cybil in the cafe, handing him a pistol and telling him how to use it! Convienant, no? After all, wasn't that HER gun? But, now armed, Harry is free to make his attempt to rescue his daughter from the nightmare he's suffering. I know, crazy theory. I'll play a bit more and see if I can come up with something more solid. Must earn my English Nerd status somehow, and lord knows there's enough in this plot to do it with.