oakthielbar
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Posts posted by oakthielbar
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Fusilliban said:artemisjaeger said:I'm writing a casual review, not a thesis.
If "I'm not really being serious about this" is a reason to not criticize things, why did you write such an in-depth critique of free music posted on a fan site?
Fine. I'm writing a review, not a thesis. I took out the word casual.
And I'm writing an in-depth critique of free music posted on a fan site because I listen to that music.
Edit: I really was a jerk. Sorry.
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I normally don't try to defend myself, but Pretzel, I did not present myself as an "unquestionable authority". I don't even know how you got that impression. I'm someone on a website commenting on a piece. I know this, you know this, and therefore there is no possible way that I could be an unquestionable authority. Just because I state my opinions very clearly and solidly (even when they're based on stupid reasons and I come back and say as much) does not mean that I am trying to be some sort of unquestionable authority.
Anyway, to address the problems.
You're right about the recording thing. I shouldn't have said that it was poor but rather that it could have been better. My apologies.
There is definitely vibrato, though. Your definition of vibrato is incorrect as well - it doesn't have to be deliberate. Here's what Webster has to say about this.
"a slightly tremulous effect imparted to vocal or instrumental tone for added warmth and expressiveness by slight and rapid variations in pitch"
Nothing about intention. To impart does not mean that it's intentional. If you want to have a dictionary war... well, I don't want to. So if you want to win this point, I'll let you. Even if it's because you're an untrained singer, it's an issue. That's an explanation but not an excuse. As for your comment about the opinions of other vocal-steeped individuals... well, if you're asking for me to site sources and stuff for things that all people don't readily know, then you need to go ahead and get them to say it. I don't doubt that they will, but I expect the same courtesy from you that you would expect from me.
My saying "very, very, very wrong" was stupid. Simple as that. I should have said that it was simply wrong but I obviously got rather carried away. And just because folk artists have existed for a long time doesn't prevent a revival. That's just silly. As for naming bands and statistics... well, I'm writing a casual review, not a thesis. If you want evidence, go find it. If you ask for it, I'll try to help find it, but otherwise I simply don't have the time or patience at 3:00 in the morning. Anyway, I looked into this a bit more and I was only half right. Psych-folk has seen a revival lately. Oh well. You did say 'sweeping the nation' and I can't prove that it is (mostly because it isn't.)
Getting upset about the 'Yup' thing is kind of silly. I end most of my things by saying 'Yup.' Or 'So... yeah.' Or some other stupid thing. It's just a habit.
I make no apologies for saying I'm way, way, way too critical. I am. That's why we're having this discussion in the first place. As for your comment about me being "too, too, too triune" - well, grow up. That's an extremely childish attack. I have not once made a personal attack on you. I may have attacked your work, but not your person. Get over it.
Your lyrics still don't make sense, in my opinion. You can explain them like that and they make sense after that explanation, but I showed your lyrics to a number of my friends (one a literary enthusiast, one a music enthusiast, the others just casual music listeners) and not one of them understood what you were saying. I don't mean that as in the whole thing is a big garbled mess of nonsense, but rather that there a number of sentences in the whole that are nonsense. Enough so that it gets confusing. The thing about the metaphor is still a problem, by the way. Just because other artists do it doesn't make it right and doesn't mean that you did it well. I still think it sounded random and weird.
I shouldn't have said the Yoda thing. That was mean-spirited of me. I'm sorry.
You're right about the 'recalls' issue. I didn't realize it could be used that way. I still think it sounds weird, but that's my personal opinion. And just because I don't like something doesn't mean that I have to correct it. It's your work, so if someone doesn't like it, it's your job to fix it (if you think it's worth fixing). Just because I don't like something doesn't mean I have to find a way to make it better, especially when it's someone else's creative property.
I'm glad that you appreciate the detailed criticism even though you don't seem to like it. The poetic license you took on the lyrics was used to the extent that it became confusing (and not just to me, but a number of people). I consider that an issue. I did not say any of your issues could be easily fixed, so please don't put words in my mouth. I don't have to provide examples for you because I'm not trying to offer advice, I'm trying to offer an opinion. Your piece is done and I know that. I don't expect you to make any changes, so I'm not going to offer any changes to make. I can offer opinions on what you've already done and from that you can glean what you like. That's how the majority of critiques work outside of community forums (and within.)
Claado - Personal attacks are immature. Just because you don't agree with my opinion doesn't mean I'm "full of it".
Pretzel's second response - You did more than clarify the definition of 'recalls' and I appreciate it. It was indeed worth it.
Tash - I realize the time and effort this took. I never said anything to imply otherwise. I did do it apathetically and without intent of helping, but there's nothing wrong with that when offering opinions. I could try and excuse the apathy, but fine, I'm wrong for being apathetic and being apathetic is wrong. Not directly helping when offering an opinion, on the other hand, is completely alright.
EDIT: Yeah, wow, I totally did present myself as authoritative. My attitude wasn't at all constructive, and I behaved really inappropriately. I'm sorry. Ugh I keep reading more of this and I was really an unbearable twit. I thought for the longest time that my temporary ban was unjustified, but wow I'm embarrassed to read this stuff.
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Do you want to know what's wrong with the vocals? First problem - the recording. Very poor quality. You can hear his breath in a bad way, as well as some mouth noises. The EQing on it is poor as well, as it does not balance the guitar in the least. Listen to some folk guitar + singing stuff and you'll know what I mean. Second problem - bad vibrato. Or rather, terrible vibrato. I personally think that vibrato at all is out of place here, but this is also poorly done. Add those two together and you have a problem. I also don't like his voice, but that's a personal issue.
Also, Pretzel's description for the piece says "I don't think solo guitar/vocal folk songs are exactly sweeping the nation." That is very, very, very wrong. There is a pretty big folk revival that has been going on since the early 00's. This very much includes solo guitar/vocal folk songs.
Yup.
EDIT: Okay, okay. I was unfair. I gave the ENTIRE song a listen and I was a bit harsh. His singing is worse at the beginning, and I think I was mistaking some guitar noise with his voice (don't ask me how.) I still don't like his voice, I don't like the style of singing (too active and rock-like, not calm and folk-like as evident mostly in weird crescendos in his singing.) All in all, though, it's not as bad as I thought.
As for the lyrics... I dunno. I'm really critical. As in way, way, way too critical. There are some minor things in here that just really spoil it for me. I mean, they're not bad lyrics, but I just have too many issues with some of the wording. That and they don't make sense.
Specifics:
"Home is where I want to be but I've been torn
from out its pages for a need to be reborn
taking all of the last chances I can get
the distance multiplies in rhythm with the debt
For any prayers you send my way that I get by"
Entire first part = crap. I've been torn from out its pages for a need to be reborn? That's a confusing sentence that doesn't really make sense. If you want to use a metaphor, you have to start it in order to finish it. And what about a need to be reborn? That just sounds silly. Taking all of the last chances I can get? What the heck is that supposed to mean? That seems like a completely irrelevant line. The distance multiplies in rhythm with the debt? You're wracking up debt as you travel? What does rhythm have to do with that? Neither distance nor debt create rhythms. For any prayers you send my way that I get by... okay, that one could work if this song were by Yoda.
"it wasn't big enough for who I'm meant to be"
Tense shifting. It works and is correct use, but it's jarring and annoying.
"every street recalls the time I saw you last"
Ehhh. The streets are recalling? Should have been worded better.
"It's getting dark now and there's not much left to say
Just leave a light out each night and I'll find the way
Back to arms and eyes where I want to be found
Not these silhouettes that never make a sound
For any candles that you burn so I might see"
It's just kind of disjointed. It's not bad or anything, but it jumps from the candle to the silhouettes to the candle again. It could have been written smoother.
Harsh criticism aside, it's not a bad attempt at writing lyrics. As I said before, it's better than a lot of stuff that gets commercially released. It could still be a whole lot better, though.
SECOND EDIT:
I was an asshole. Literally, the lyrics here are better than 90% (or more) of what I hear on the radio, so I don't know why I felt the need to be so absurdly pedantic and straight up rude about something that ISN'T EVEN BAD. I'm sorry.
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I'm really sorry, but I couldn't even get through the beginning. I really, really, really do not like the singing. The guitar sounded nice and I liked the song back on VGMix, but... yeah.
Edit: Pro tip: If you don't have something nice to say, then you'd better have something productive to say. I had neither. Sorry for being an ass.
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... Umm, I just want to be clear that I don't think this piece is actually bad. It just isn't of any interest to me. Jorg's comments are not mine. Please don't kill me. =)
And for the guy that said there isn't another piece like it on the site, I would spend the time to link a bunch of 'em, but I am really tired. It's not that it sounds identical, it's just that it shares a lot of traits with other songs that I don't like. Like I originally said, it's good generic music, but it's generic. Some people like generic music and I don't think there's anything wrong with that - hell, I listen to different kinds of generic music myself, I just don't like this kind of generic music. Or something, I dunno. I'm really tired and I'm probably making an idiot of myself. Scratch that, I'm definitely making an idiot of myself. Someone brought up a point (sorry for not quoting you whoever you are) that there isn't rock arrangements that use strings and piano in a British rock style. I kind of disagree. Maybe I'm letting the music from VGMix polute my impression of what's on OCR, but guitar+symphonic elements... yeah, that's been done a bunch of times. The only good one I've heard is from Xenosaga.
As for the British rock aspect, let's not split hairs. It's really not THAT different from normal rock. I don't want to start an argument on this subject, though, so... fine, it's the first song to really emphasize British rock elements. I don't think that's enough to make it good, though maybe a little original. Maybe I'm being a bit flippant with the "generic" word. I mean to say that it doesn't have anything really NEW to add. Not that it didn't do something different or anything, but it's just small things. Nothing really new. I don't like 95% of the stuff on this site for the same reason. It's not that anyone's bad at music here (though some are), it's just that I have stupid high standards and want someone to be the next Bach. Sorry.
Oh, whatever. Have I sufficiently made an ass of myself for you guys? I'm gonna get some sleep. Midee and Prozax, I like a lot of your stuff and I don't mean to be insulting (even though I probably have been). I look forward to hearing music from the both of you because I think that you guys are progressing in a good direction. Keep at it and I'm sure you'll only be hearing praise from me soon. =)
Edit: Ugh, that last line - as if my praise fucking matters! This is great work, and you didn't deserve my idiotic and uninformed critique.
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This got off to a GREAT start. Dramatic, original, interesting. Sadly, that didn't hold up. After about twenty five seconds, it started sounding like everything else. Generic. The ending is great, just like the beginning, but... wow. The middle is just such a waste of time. I don't mean to be a stick in the mud (which I always am), but some skillful guitar playing, high production values, and good samples do not good music make. I listened to it twice and I won't ever listen to it again. It actually sounded like I was listening to a Final Fantasy Mystic Quest style arrangement of the song, and that is not a compliment. I'm sure this has a lot to offer for fans of FF7 and for people who like people playing guitar, but that's all it is in my opinion. An arrangement of FF7 that has a guitar. It's also what is known as, in my opinion, everything that's wrong with OCR. Not that it's a song from FF7 - that's fine, it's legitimate video game music even if it's ReMixed really often, and OCR is very good about posting music from all sorts of games - but the fact that this is going to get worship because it has good samples and guitar playing.
No offense, though. It really isn't a bad piece, it's just unbearably generic in my opinion. Good generic music, but generic music nonetheless.
Edit: Wow I was a jerk. "No offense, I just think your music is unbearably generic". I'm really sorry. This piece of music took more skill than I could have possibly mustered, myself, and it didn't deserve what I said.
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Nothing short of genius. This piece is perhaps the best piece to ever make it to this site. Its arrangement is sheer brilliance, the exacution top notch. Shnabubula gets a million zillion points.
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I'm sure anyone who likes the music of Secret of Mana will enjoy this arrangement. It's a very intelligently written piece. The performance is fairly realistic.
I just don't like it. It's not entertaining. Perhaps it is a little bit as I try to think about it from a theoretical standpoint, but I simply don't like these sorts of piano pieces.
Edit: I could have left it at all of the positive comments and instead I just pretentiously crapped on your well-executed and creative arrangement. I apologize.
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From a compositional standpoint this is freaking awesome. I can actually hear direct quotes from Dvorak's Slavonic Dances, so that's pretty entertaining. It does a good job of combining the two - an expert job, in fact.
The only problem is that the samples are way too cinematic-y. This is such a classical composition that the samples make it sound too... eh. The only way this could really shine is through live performance, but that's clearly impossible. And there are times where there is reverb that KILLS the mood. A lot of that is at the beginning where he imitates the first dance. At least, that's what I hear.
Still freakin' awesome, though. I'm glad to see Robson take a less "epic" approach to some music. The classical style is definitely missing from the ReMixing community.
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Well, I love it, myself. Anything that could be better is just fine, though. Because honestly, anything can be better, so if it's good the way it is, it's just how it should be.
Freakin' awesome job.
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I'm probably going to get an ass-load of people disagreeing with this, but I think Dan B. sings like some sort of male Bjork, which I'd have to say is a good thing. Personally.
Oh, and I'd have to agree that I don't like the rap, but I think it's executed well. I just don't enjoy it.
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I feel that the samples were somewhat lacking, but I really don't care much about the samples. Some of them actually surprised me in the quality, while some left me a little disappointed.
What really disappointed me was that the mix seemed to spend very little time on each song. It just danced across tons of tunes instead of picking a few and sticking to them. Because of that, it changes ideas way too rapidly for me. Of course, all of the transitions are very smooth, so at least it gets from one tune to the next very smoothly.
It also felt like there was too many moments of just melody and chord. I would have loved to see a lot more movement going on at a lot of points, while some I feel it was just right.
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This is definitely one of my favorites of the things you've done. I like your use of different instruments throughout the entire piece - it seems like the melody is constantly on a different instrument, constantly creating interest. The harps are a really nice touch, as well.
Then, of course, the organ. The organ fits so well and is so beautiful! When it's at the choir and organ part, I was seriously blown away. Absoluetely gorgeous.
And the strings at 2:56! Ahhh, there's really too much to comment on. Russell, you've outdone yourself again.
EDIT: Agh! I forgot to mention that your use of piano is also superb. When I usually hear piano stuff in symphonic arrangements, it's just not right, but you more than pulled it off. I'll be waiting for your next arrangement!
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I'm going to try to be very short with this.
This arrangement, as a whole is very good. I must say that I enjoyed it very much and I must send my compliments to him, as I don't think much of anyone could have done this.
Now, with that aside, there were some issues that really bugged me. At the section around 2'00", it started getting kind of odd. To me, the piano really didn't seem to fit until 2'34". And even then, the idea of 2'34" didn't last too long - and I wouldn't have minded that it didn't last so long if what it went into really lost a lot of its motion. Russell was right about the horns, too - there's too much delay on them, so they end up sounding out of time. The sound of the timpani seemed to be a little bit too soft. If it were a real performance, I would have probably called for harder mallets, but that's something that probably couldn't have been fixed and wasn't that big of a problem - just a little thing to note. If I were at a real performance, I might actually get somewhat bored... it seemed to get a little repetetive at that section.
Even though I had a lot of things to say that I thought could have been improved upon, I don't think at all that it was bad. Please don't think that I mean to offend in any way, it's just that those things I commented upon were things I found to my personal distaste. I can't imagine actually putting that together, myself. The whole piece was a great listen and I absoluetely cannot wait for the next piece he brings to OCR.
Edit: I used to really love the sound of my own criticism. Sorry for going overboard on this - it's a great piece of work and it's clear how much talent and skill it took to make this.
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I applaud Mr. Contraveos on this amazing piece of work. Though I would have loved to hear this piece of music last a lot longer, what is there is superb.
Now, this probably isn't the place to say this, but in Pretzel's description of this song, he mentions that Disco Dan Cabrera said how it is more like Chopin than Scriabin. I had never heard of Scriabin, myself, so I had to immediately go and find some of his music. I found one song, though, that this ReMix has many similarities to. Scriabin's Etude in D# Minor, Op. 8, No. 12, Patetico. Specifically, though, I would like to point out that the very ends of both songs are exactly the same.
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Simply astonishing. I've listened to many of the piano arrangements on this website, and this one takes the cake. I would say that it's the most professionally done and shows all of the elements of a real classical piano arrangement. If a random lover of classical piano listened to this, they wouldn't think for a moment that it could be from a video game, and much more would also love the song. It also encompasses many differents styles, keeping the song interesting for every moment. Suspense is another element - while I was listening, I knew that the same thing wouldn't repeat more than once if any times at all, so I wondered constantly what was going to happen next. In all, this song is worth the download for people that love piano, and many of those that don't will still enjoy it.
Congratulations Spekkosaurus, this is some amazing work.
OCR01485 - Secret of Mana "Dueling Consoles"
in ReMix Reviews & Comments
Posted
Shnabubula never ceases to amaze me. I've listened to this SO many times since it came out. One of the most brilliant arrangements I've heard in a long time. This man is one of the best arrangers out there.