*NO* Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World 'No Better Time Than Now' *RESUB*

[Liontamer]

Original Decision: http://www.ocremix.org/forums/showthread.php?t=19601

So I bugged Fishy about this and he let me know it was rejected with some concerns on being too liberal and production issues. I've spent the last few days making some changes to the mix to bring out a lot more of the source - especially through the verses.

I also brought out some of the source parts in the bridge so it would be a bit more apparent which part of the source I was utilizing (I think you'd call it the bridge from the OST: it's both the bells and the violin lead at :36).

Also pushed back vocals and increased the reverb on them to sit more in the mix. I was originally trying to go a bit more the "dry" route with them, but it sounds like I overdid it.

I forgot to include lyrics last time, so for your reference:

You're waiting for someone to come along

You're waiting for someone to care

You're waiting for someone to carry you

You're waiting but you know he's there

You wonder what's been missing for so long

You wonder why you can't compare

The offers of this life will let you down

So take the hand that leads you there

Now is the time

To give it all you've got

Now is the time

For letting go

Now is the time

You've only got one shot

Now is the time

No better time than now

There's only one out there who has the strength

To hold you up from day to day

Only one can take you from this place

So rise above your fears and say

No better time than now

Merry Christmas

-Justin

LT EDIT (3/13): Hey Larry,

Here's the promised breakdown of No Better:

:00 - :15 Reverbed bells playing the bell part from original

:15 - :46 Piano takes over the bell part from OST

:15 - :46 Woodwind section playing violin melody from OST

:46 - 1:14 High Strings take over OST violin melody

1:15 - 1:44 Delayed bells/glockenspiel take over the OST bell part again, albeit looser this time

1:44 - 1:59 Strings and bell switch to OST violin melody

1:59 - 2:26 Delayed bells/glock back on OST bell

1:59 - 2:26 Solo Cello takes over OST violin melody, joined later by woodwind section

2:26 - 3:00 This chorus section is the weakest link to OST, there is the bell part there, but it's not a major part of the section

3:00 - 3:10 Reverbed bells return for OST bells

3:10 - 3:30 Bells/Glock take over OST bells

3:30 - 3:41 High string stabs & Glockenspiel covering the bell part which occurs in the OST bridge (it's around :37 in the OST where the bells switch patterns)

3:41 - 4:02 Glock continues playing the OST bells bridge pattern

3:46 - 4:02 High strings switch to the violin melody in OST bridge (:40 - :55 in the OST)

4:02 - 4:14 This transition section is not connected to OST

4:28 - 4:44 Strings and woodwinds playing OST violin melody

4:44 - 5:11 same as 2:26 section

5:21 - 5:52 Piano again on bells from original

Hope this makes sense. I totally understand if this still isn't enough for OCR, it's just hard for me to let this song go since I spent so much time on it.

Thanks,

Justin

----------------------------------------------------------------

Tales of Symphonia: Knight of Ratatosk Original Soundtrack - (114) "This isn't the time"

Alright, so I didn't delve much into the arrangement last time around, since the production was really messed up. This is an improvement. It has issues with clutter and the high-end might be too loud in places, but this was OK overall.

So onto the arrangement. Here's what I got before I stopped timestamping:

:00-:05, :15-:47, :47-:57, :57-1:10; 1:25-1:29, 1:32-1:40, 1:42-1:54, 2:00-2:04.5, 2:07-2:10, 2:14-2:18...

One thing that confused me last time was saying the chorus vocals were tied to the bells, when they were more tied to the strings. So "Now Is the Time" (2:24-2:28 of the mix) was derived from the 4 notes of the strings (:44-:53 of the source). Well, I see what you were going for there, but the notes aren't similar and the rhythm's not either. It's ultimately too liberal.

Unfortunately, going through your breakdown from the previous sub and taking into account the things that I could recognize (most of the added bell accents and most of the high strings). If the vocals weren't so liberal, this would be an easy pass, as the overall package now sounds strong enough. It's still a great track, solid performances, I'm feeling it, and it's a great contribution to SoS. But it's a NO-go as far as the standards.

You were dealing with melodies & rhythms where it was easy to go off the rails trying to adapt them, and that's basically what happened. Lots of good supporting parts that explicitly used the source, but when it came to the vocals, they were not similar enough to be significantly recognizable. Now if a majority of Js are sure it's kosher based on theory, then sure, but I just don't see it happening. That said, make sure you and your wife collab again on another mix.

NO

[Palpable]

Better production, thought the vocals gelled with the backing track now. Didn't mention this last time but I love the harmonies between you and your wife. The added/emphasized bells this time around were a nice touch to bring in more source, though about half the time it strayed far enough that it was just an allusion. Production-wise, I think this is now good enough but...

Still not down with the arrangement side of this, no matter how hard I try. Like Larry, I can't hear any connection between the bells and the vocals. The strings he pointed out did sound a little similar to the chorus but used different notes and timing, so that seemed more coincidental and not a very strong tie, intended or not. The bells you added give some needed connection, but even in my previous breakdown, we were looking at only about 1:30 or so of solid connection to the original. This needs a lot more than that. Sorry, but it's another NO. Love the song, but try as I might, I can't find the connections to pass it.

NO

Edit (3/26): OK, my final final breakdown on this song, taking Justin's into account. I'm just listing what is used from the original, bold is the connections I can hear:

0:00-0:04, 0:08-0:12 - Bells

0:15-0:46 - Bells, violin

0:47-1:14 - Altered violin part, too far to count IMO

1:18-1:21, 1:25-1:28, 1:31-1:39 - Bells

1:43-1:56 - Violin

2:00-2:03, 2:07-2:10, 2:14-2:17 - Bells

2:24-2:51 - Bells so soft the notes are barely audible, can't hear the melody

2:58-3:01, 3:04-3:23 - Bells

3:24-3:33 - Bridge bells felt too altered

3:35-3:36, 3:37-3:38, 3:40-3:41, 3:42-3:43, 3:45-3:46, 3:48-3:49, 3:50-3:51, 3:52-3:53 - Bells

3:46-4:02 - Bridge violin felt too altered

4:20-4:33 - If violin part was played, I couldn't hear it

5:11-5:43 - Bells

127/343 seconds = 37.0%

Even counting the non-bolded parts, it'd be hard to give you this one and I can see why Larry stopped timestamping. So much of this relies on the bell pattern for the connection, which plays a background role for much of the song. The fact that you added or emphasized some bells from the last version is telling; you could remove the bells and the song would sound finished. The violin connection is good, the piano playing the bells is a strong foreground element, but that's pretty much where it ends for me.

[anosou]

I didn't have any major production issues last time and production sounds even BETTER this time. However, I can't sign off on the arrangement. Vinnie gave a breakdown that I, once again, agree completely with. You have to be more clear with your source usage in this case. The arrangement you've made is too severe, making it not recognizable. Like Larry pointed out, I see what you tried with the four note pattern from the strings in the voice. Arranging a four note pattern is hard and here it's not the same notes or the same rhythm so the effect is lost. The vocal part, being the focus of the track, should really be more clearly connected to the source.

Like I said in the last decision, no one's gonna listen to this and go "oh, cool arrangement of..". Sorry Justin, this is still too liberal.

NO