How do you process YOUR orchestra?

[Meteo Xavier]

Umm..... is this related to the fact that for the last few weeks I've been hearing people screaming when I try to go to bed even though no actual sound is being made? (That is true btw)

Thats what I do too, I look for problems in my mix all the way around. I don't want to be one of those idiots who is oblivious to very general sound problems in his mix, but I can't seem to come to a point where I can say, "Ok, this sounds fine and I don't have to worry about it."

Because every time I've done that, I've been criticized for sample or mix quality (See my Epic Fail Super Metroid remix that thankfully got killed) and I don't want to keep doing that.

[gwilendiel]

Umm..... is this related to the fact that for the last few weeks I've been hearing people screaming when I try to go to bed even though no actual sound is being made? (That is true btw)

Thats what I do too, I look for problems in my mix all the way around. I don't want to be one of those idiots who is oblivious to very general sound problems in his mix, but I can't seem to come to a point where I can say, "Ok, this sounds fine and I don't have to worry about it."

Because every time I've done that, I've been criticized for sample or mix quality (See my Epic Fail Super Metroid remix that thankfully got killed) and I don't want to keep doing that.

This sounds more like tinnitus than mere fatigue.

You might need a vacation from music, seriously. It's not only loudness that damages your ears, but constant sound can too. If these noises with no source continue after you take a break for a while, you may want to see a doctor about it.

[Doni]

Does anybody use an old synth called Orchestal by Edirol? It's kind of shotty in some ways but I really like it's sounds...

[GarretGraves]

what is a man?

a miserable pile of secrets!

[GarretGraves]

So far, this is the best sound I could get out of GPO.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=1EGMR9NS

I still think i can get more for my buck here.

[Moseph]

So far, this is the best sound I could get out of GPO.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=1EGMR9NS

I still think i can get more for my buck here.

The thing that jumps out to me immediately is that the sustains in the violin melody have no shape to them. The melody's volume on these sustains needs to be automated with MIDI CC1 (see my post here for links on how to do it in FL if you don't know how). Meteo's clip was a good example of how string sustain ought to sound.

Even apart from the violin sustains, the instruments sounds like they're playing a continuous mezzo forte -- there's no shape or detail to the overall loudness of any of the instruments except for a blanket level reduction at 2:00. This can be fixed with note velocities (if GPO recognizes those, and I'm not sure it does) or, again, with CC1.

[GarretGraves]

The thing that jumps out to me immediately is that the sustains in the violin melody have no shape to them. The melody's volume on these sustains needs to be automated with MIDI CC1 (see my post here for links on how to do it in FL if you don't know how). Meteo's clip was a good example of how string sustain ought to sound.

Even apart from the violin sustains, the instruments sounds like they're playing a continuous mezzo forte -- there's no shape or detail to the overall loudness of any of the instruments except for a blanket level reduction at 2:00. This can be fixed with note velocities (if GPO recognizes those, and I'm not sure it does) or, again, with CC1.

I don't seem to have that CC1 feature. I looked exactly where the instructions tell me and it's not there. WTF!

[Moseph]

I don't seem to have that CC1 feature. I looked exactly where the instructions tell me and it's not there. WTF!

I'm positive FL can do this somehow, but I don't actually use the program so I can't troubleshoot it. Any FL users have the correct procedure?

[GarretGraves]

On that link it shows in PICTURE FORM how to get that feature. but i looked where they're saying and it's not there. is this some plug i gotta download? that seems retarded if i do cause it sounds like FL should have this already. and im using FL XXL 7.0.

[Moseph]

A workaround that would have about the same effect as CC1 automation would be to just automate the level fader for the entire track. I don't know if GPO gives you different samples at different CC1 levels, but if it does, you wouldn't get that by automating the track level. It would better than nothing, though.

EDIT: 4:16 in

may solve the problem. There should be a mod wheel on the GPO interface that controls the level. If you automate that as per the video, it should give you the volume control you want.

[DZComposer]

EDIT: I listened to you demo. How are you using velocity? It sounded to me like there wasn't a lot of attack on the notes. Are you using the sustain pedal for legato?

Since this was asked earlier, but the thread grew...

From the GPO manual (this is as of GPO4):

Basic GPO Control:

In GPO, velocity controls attack.

Mod wheel is dynamics (it's a little more than just a volume control).

Sustain is legato, though GPO4 has an auto legato feature, I found it not as useful as keeping it on manual. NOTE: keyswitch solo strings instead alternate bowstrokes

Pitch Bend: Pitch Bend

Exception: percussive sounds. They are like normal samples: velocity for dynamics, sustain for sustain, etc.

GPO Advanced controls:

Auto Variance: CC22 and CC23 (also Vibraphone tremolo level and speed respectively)

Portamento/Bass Drum Fundamental/Vibraphone Attack: CC20

Release length: CC21

Vibrato (solo instruments): Channel Aftertouch - intensity; CC17 - frequency

Kill pitch bend: CC19

Solo String Trills: CC15

Aggressive Saturation (ag instruments only): CC16

EDIT AGAIN: I think I'll make a new thread for that...

[GarretGraves]

EDIT: I listened to you demo. How are you using velocity? It sounded to me like there wasn't a lot of attack on the notes. Are you using the sustain pedal for legato?

Im not using any controller. I justpoint and click the notes i want on the roll and i manually adjust the velocity for each note. unfortunately, this seems to be a flawed idea considering i dont have that much control of my instruments when i do that. im still not super-educated on FL so bare with me. I havent tweaked that demo much at all. it needs work. and listening to it now i dont much like the reverb. doestn sound very warm to me. reverb is another annoying weakness of mine.

[DZComposer]

Im not using any controller. I justpoint and click the notes i want on the roll and i manually adjust the velocity for each note. unfortunately, this seems to be a flawed idea considering i dont have that much control of my instruments when i do that. im still not super-educated on FL so bare with me. I havent tweaked that demo much at all. it needs work. and listening to it now i dont much like the reverb. doestn sound very warm to me. reverb is another annoying weakness of mine.

With GPO velocity is only attack. If you want a harder attack (is that what you mean by "crisp?"), you need more velocity.

You need to draw-in mod-wheel values to control dynamics ("loudness"). Higher values = louder.

I do not know exactly how this works in FL (I use Cubase), but you should be able to change/add controller lanes under your piano roll to allow you to add MIDICC data to your song. From screenshots, it looks like FL has one lane by default for velocity. I say above the roll the word velocity. Next to it was an arrow pointing down. Drop-menu perhaps? See if that menu will let you select different controllers.

EDIT: http://www.suspenlute.com/gpo_in_fl_studio/

It's for an ancient version of GPO, but the basics still apply. If you're using Kontakt Player 2 or ARIA (GPO4), it will look A LOT differnet. They both also support 16 channels, unlike Kontakt Player 1 (shown) which only supported 8. Just be sure to assign the same controllers. They haven't changed.

Just make sure you do all of the controllers I mentioned. As I said earlier, you will need to use them to get the most out of GPO.

[GarretGraves]

That drop down menu you mentioned isnt much except you can change the mode from velocity to panning and such and then you would draw the value below the piano roll. If in that pic you can see lines below the roll, those are for velocity. That's how i adjust velocity for every single note manually.

I did realize that i was using GPO with the mod wheel only half way to full. there seems to be a significant difference in attack with it. on top of the velocity values at full in FL.

how to automate them is still a little hard for me. that video seems mighty helpful except that there might be some kind of anomoly in the vid cause i cant see any drop down menu the guy is showing. that's wierd.

EDIT: Okay I figured out how to make automation clips. However, they have no effect on MIDI OUT channels. Is that normal? that kinda sucks.

[DZComposer]

Mod wheel should not affect attack. That's velocity.

Unfortunately, I cannot be of further assistance with FL because I do not use it. Only other suggestion I have is hit the manual or post in the FL help board. ( http://ocremix.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=28 )

[GarretGraves]

thanks. unfortunately there is no manual for FL. only online help. but thanks anyway.

[Ravich]

Just throwing it out there that until Monday, you can get EWQLSO Gold upgraded to having both hall mics and close mics for 200$. Definitely had to go for this one, since I'm dying in my attempt to use stage mic sample sets for a wider variety of settings.