Pokémon HG/SS Rival Battle ReMix

[AlmightyArceus]

So this was one of my originals. i like most of it cuz its pretty solid. obviously, the piano solo part inst completely final, as no background is there most of the time. and, btw, i know there will be a lot of comments on the sax volume (you'll know where) but i did it on purpose to make it very pronounced and predominant. anyways, please comment and enjoy

LINK:

[AlmightyArceus]

...anything? (sorry i may have put this on at a bad time)

[SLyGeN]

There are a few aspects that I really like, here, and a few that I don't care for.

When the track started, it felt like your idea of remixing it was simply taking out a couple of measures here and there simply because they were repeated bars. I'd just ask yourself if you honestly think it sounds better that way, or if it was just a quick way to get some variation out of the piece.

If you honestly think it's an improvement over the original, ignore me, and keep it in there. But even if you do, expand upon it! Every time you repeat that measure, I want to hear just a tiny bit of variation, even if it's as small as a grace note. If you find yourself copying and pasting multiple measures, make sure you tweak the second instance, or else it gets boring.

The mix is a bit muddy as well. That pad in the background shouldn't follow the melody because the attack on it isn't fast enough, and the release is too long. That's just the nature of pads. Keep it in there, but perhaps just make it sustain the root of the chord being played.

If you're feeling ballsy, make it crisper, add harmony, and use it as a pedal note ;D

I do like, however, that you're adding your own material to it. Sometimes it feels like its out of place, though, and that's because you aren't following a single scale with it. What that ends up sounding like is a bunch of modulations to different keys of different modes, and it feels random. If you like the jumpy nature of what you have now, consider modulating to a new key only, or a new mode only, rather than both at once. Or, when changing modes, modulate to a closely related or parallel key.

Evory is giving me some feedback on a single modulation of my own that needs work because it kinda smacks the listener upside the head. I hope he gets word of this thread so that he can give you some helpful advice.

[evory]

The first minute or so seems pretty straightforward, since it's pretty much a cover of the original, although I thought you could have thrown in some counter-melodies or flourishes here and there to spice it up a little, because currently it's just a simple arrangement of the source melody, other than a small countermelody sneaking in at 0:34 or so. I like how the timbre of the instruments which take over the melody are markedly different, so it doesn't end up all fuzzy, and when it's a countermelody entering at 0:34, the timbre blends into the background, so if you do add in stuff to the first minute, make sure you keep with this and that the background notes don't rise above the melody. To me though, the pad following the melody actually seems fine, so it's up to each listener's opinion I guess.

When the original material starts coming in though, I agree it's a little dissonant. I don't like the style of the first guitar melody, which seems to me more like something a guitarist would improvise as a solo, mostly because of the repetitions of G# --> F#, B --> Bb --> B, etc. The slight dissonance still works here for me, but when it goes to D# F# G# F# A, the tritone between D# and A is really unsettling, given that D# appears directly on the 2nd and 3rd beat, while A appears on the 4th, giving the bar an implied melody of F# D# D# A, leading the A to sound like a random note chucked in there. I see what you're trying to get at with a higher melody line and a lower one playing exchange, but firstly the two melodies don't complement each other at all, and secondly I think it would be better if you assign the lower part to another instrument to make the distinction clearer. The ascending bit after this is fine though, so I just suggest you replace the phrase with the A with something less dissonant.

Despite what I said about the solo-guitar sounding style, I think it would fit better with the rest of the piece if there were pads in the background to help in the modulation to make it less dissonant, rather than a solo instrument which seemingly goes off-tangent to some, so if you can work the background well, the dissonance should fit better, otherwise, consider sticking to a simpler melody without dissonances if they aren't workable.

I really like the piano bassline, and it gives it a sort of tension a normal bassline wouldn't give, and sounds very FF-like to me. I like how the first run isn't all consecutive semiquavers, and I think you can play with the idea of extending the duration of one or two notes in the bassline to make it more rhythmic and less mechanical. When the guitar comes in after that though, it's too abrupt for my liking, and I'd think slowly adding less pronounced instruments to the lone piano would make the buildup better, although if this is the effect you're going for, then by all means leave it.

[SLyGeN]

There we go; you're in business now, Arceus.

I don't have a keyboard next to me, and I never do well during class dictation, so I didn't actually write out the melody that you used.

Evory did, however, so if I might expand upon what he said just a little bit..

Both of our walls of text might look like way too fucking much to remember, but take it a step at a time. In fact, read Evory's post first, and then read mine second. What he was discussing as far as your melodic and harmonic structure (or lack thereof) can be fixed by doing what I said regarding following a single scale.

And... oh jesus. Looking at the original song now, it appears to begin in Eb minor pentatonic, and then it moves to Db minor pentatonic with that same motive, as the intro. Eventually, after a few other modulations to other minor pentatonic-sounding scales, it briefly goes to Bb phrygian before regressing to that pentatonic sound. Pentatonic scales do include scale degrees of western scales, so I think you can still harmonize and compose as if they were western scales. But still, you've got a hell of a song to work with Try adding some Quartal and Quintal harmony!

[AlmightyArceus]

There are a few aspects that I really like, here, and a few that I don't care for.

When the track started, it felt like your idea of remixing it was simply taking out a couple of measures here and there simply because they were repeated bars. I'd just ask yourself if you honestly think it sounds better that way, or if it was just a quick way to get some variation out of the piece.

If you honestly think it's an improvement over the original, ignore me, and keep it in there. But even if you do, expand upon it! Every time you repeat that measure, I want to hear just a tiny bit of variation, even if it's as small as a grace note. If you find yourself copying and pasting multiple measures, make sure you tweak the second instance, or else it gets boring.

The mix is a bit muddy as well. That pad in the background shouldn't follow the melody because the attack on it isn't fast enough, and the release is too long. That's just the nature of pads. Keep it in there, but perhaps just make it sustain the root of the chord being played.

If you're feeling ballsy, make it crisper, add harmony, and use it as a pedal note ;D

I do like, however, that you're adding your own material to it. Sometimes it feels like its out of place, though, and that's because you aren't following a single scale with it. What that ends up sounding like is a bunch of modulations to different keys of different modes, and it feels random. If you like the jumpy nature of what you have now, consider modulating to a new key only, or a new mode only, rather than both at once. Or, when changing modes, modulate to a closely related or parallel key.

Evory is giving me some feedback on a single modulation of my own that needs work because it kinda smacks the listener upside the head. I hope he gets word of this thread so that he can give you some helpful advice.

I didnt take out any measures....? at least i dont think i did.

As for the pad in the back, i kind of wanted something that was kind of like that i guess at the beginning. listening to it now makes me second guess myself. as i think i said originally, this was like on of my first mixes, and i havent doe much with it yet. i am going to change that pad for example, and make the bass MUCH louder....also change the drums cuz they annoy me bit now...

The piano solo is not random at all, i just think what is lacking here is the lack of backup chords, which i may put in softly...it actually transitions from Eb to Bb to match up with the intro at the end.

thanks so much for the feedback, i didnt really think thre would be to much for this...

@evory at what time in the song is the F# D# D# A part?

[SLyGeN]

Well if you listen to the second introductory motive of your piece versus the original counterpart, you'll see that there's about a bar's worth of material removed from it. It sounded a little striking to me, since I know the original song.

As far as your solos, so long as each and every note is played with a distinct purpose, you're fine.

[evory]

@evory at what time in the song is the F# D# D# A part?

At 1:15, the melody goes F# G# F# D# F# D# F# G# F# A etcetc, with the bolded notes occuring on the 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th beats, so the conflict between D# and A is especially striking, and doesn't seem to fit IMO.

Haha and do take note of whatever slygen said about the key changes, because it's something I've wanted to mention, except that I'm bad at identifying keys in different modes unless I transcribe it first, yeah.

[AlmightyArceus]

At 1:15, the melody goes F# G# F# D# F# D# F# G# F# A etcetc, with the bolded notes occuring on the 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th beats, so the conflict between D# and A is especially striking, and doesn't seem to fit IMO.

Haha and do take note of whatever slygen said about the key changes, because it's something I've wanted to mention, except that I'm bad at identifying keys in different modes unless I transcribe it first, yeah.

Well actually, there i put in a B7 chord, because it is actually a B(7) i believe. i kept it in its original B change, but idk if its actually a dominant chord originally (if it isnt, its my own perferred personal change for the solo section!) Either way, i think it fits there, as A is the b7 that makes the B7 chord (B D# F# A). What made it feel like it didnt fit?

[evory]

Well actually, there i put in a B7 chord, because it is actually a B(7) i believe. i kept it in its original B change, but idk if its actually a dominant chord originally (if it isnt, its my own perferred personal change for the solo section!) Either way, i think it fits there, as A is the b7 that makes the B7 chord (B D# F# A). What made it feel like it didnt fit?

To give credit where credit's due, the kind of effect you've created with this initially seems entirely out, but upon repeated listening seems to grow on you, so it's a bit hard for me to go back and think why it seemed off at first listen.

I don't claim to be a theory expert, so the following is more of a guess on why the phrase appears dissonant at first than anything. The progression is based more on the key of Eb than anything, and so the B7 chord seems to come as quite a bit of a surprise. The tritone D#-A within the chord makes the listener caught in two minds, firstly to want to resolve the tritone, although the resultant E major chord would make things sound even stranger, and secondly to return to the minor key it came from. Instead the B7 chord resolves into a Bb Dorian scale, which makes it unpleasingat first, even though the transition back into the B major chord after that seems more natural after the listener is first accustomed to the idea you're trying to create.

But anyway, I wouldn't see it as a problem now, because I'm sure the judges or whoever would give this a few listens and probably get the chord progressions you're trying to get at.

[AlmightyArceus]

I don't claim to be a theory expert, so the following is more of a guess on why the phrase appears dissonant at first than anything. The progression is based more on the key of Eb than anything, and so the B7 chord seems to come as quite a bit of a surprise. The tritone D#-A within the chord makes the listener caught in two minds, firstly to want to resolve the tritone, although the resultant E major chord would make things sound even stranger, and secondly to return to the minor key it came from. Instead the B7 chord resolves into a Bb Dorian scale, which makes it unpleasingat first, even though the transition back into the B major chord after that seems more natural after the listener is first accustomed to the idea you're trying to create.

yeah that half step is kind of weird...i think the original chord might have been a Db...but im not sure...either way i took the bass note to form the chord and thought it sounded cool. plus you know solo chords can vary a little bit, as they do in a lot of songs.

[SLyGeN]

If you write that bit out on a score, I'll tell you what's happening and why it may sound dissonant. Just put it on here as a jpeg.