The Very Basics

[Squint]

Hey guys, I spent a good amount of time in the forums here, trying to make sure I wouldn't post anything that's been answered many times before, so I apologize in advance if you can point me to a thread covering what I'm asking here. That said, I am a complete beginner when it comes to recording music, and most of what I've seen here seems suitable for people who at least know the very basics of what everything actually is (DAWs, VSTs, MIDI controllers). I did take a look at some stickies, which helped to give somewhat of an understanding, but before I make any large purchases, I really want to make sure I get it. First, let me tell you what (I think) I know. Don't laugh.

So I've got my digital piano, which would be considered just one type of MIDI controller. I hook up a MIDI cable to the piano, then pass it through a USB converter, which goes directly into my laptop USB port. Then, I use a DAW, software like Fruity Loops Studio or Multitrack Studio, to record what I play on my piano. Once it's recorded, I can edit whatever I want to, note by note, in my DAW software. Then, if I want to try some other interesting things, I can opt to get a VST, something like Vanguard or Nexus, which is not physical hardware but rather software that is virtually plugged into my DAW software (hence, they're known as "plugins"). VSTs would give me the ability to emulate different instrument sounds on my computer, through my DAW. There are different VSTs for different specialties (piano VSTs, orchestral VSTs, drum kit VSTs, etc.), ranging in quality of emulation.

Assuming that's all correct, I've got a few questions...

- I have this Pro Tools thing. http://www.amazon.com/Pro-Tools-Recording-Studio-Music/dp/B002P3KINE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1296518498&sr=8-1 It's what I used to record myself playing my digital piano for the mix I submitted to this site. Would this be considered a DAW, something comparable to Fruity Loops Studio? I mean, if it is, maybe I've already got the DAW part covered. Even if so, I might still consider getting Fruity Loops Studio because there seems to be a lot of support for it here at OCRemix.

- I think I understand that VSTs are used to produce different instrument sounds in your DAW, but if I'm strictly interested in piano, would it benefit me to get a piano VST, since I already have a digital piano? This is the piano I have, fyi. http://usa.yamaha.com/products/musical-instruments/keyboards/digitalpianos/clp_series/clp-320/?mode=model Would it make my piano sound better? Just to be clear, I am definitely still interested in looking into VSTs for all other types of instruments, as I'd like to eventually expand past solo piano recordings. So, is there an all-encompassing VST, or are they all specialized? My immediate guess is that yes, you can get a single VST that runs the gamut as far as instruments are concerned. So, for a pianist like myself, a specialized piano VST might be good, because it is something that I can really take advantage of, whereas something like drum beats and/or guitar VSTs would be better served through a general VST. Does that sound accurate?

- Lastly, are all VSTs compatible with all DAWs?

Anyway, sorry for the long post, but I figured if anybody could help, it'd be you guys. Thanks in advance!

[skewered logic]

Very nice - Pro Tools is my personal first choice for DAW. I personally find Pro Tools to be more intuitive (coming strictly from a sound recording standpoint, rather than sequencing, filtering, gating, slicing, etc.) than FL Studio, but perhaps if all you want to do is use VST's and ReWire for your sounds, then FL Studio is probably the way to go. Another alternative would be Reaper (you can download an unlimited trial for free at http://www.reaper.fm), which is pretty easy to get acquainted with.

You've got it right regarding interfacing between your piano and the computer. I think Clavinovas can function as MIDI controllers - I think that's what we used in the computer music studio at my school...? Not 100% sure.

It is also my opinion that digital pianos generally don't sound too great; you can probably get better sound out of free/cheap VST instruments (the Clavinova is alright, but I still think you can do better). This won't make your piano itself sound better - just the sound that you record into the DAW. I don't really use VST sounds for vanilla piano - I record my mom's Steinway for that. Someone else will probably come around and give some advice with this though.

As for other sounds, there are some really great guides on this forum about where you can get free/cheap VST's and soundfonts for whatever. The search function works quite nicely, and generally, you can find what you need in the Composition/Production forum here (http://ocremix.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=12) and its subsections (especially the Guides and Tutorials section...lol). Zircon has written some pretty comprehensive guides that should get you started. Just remember that not everything is in stickies, so you might have to look a little harder for what you want.

Different VST's have different strengths. Synth1 is a lightweight (and still pretty powerful) VST that a friend of mine uses in our band (he can't carry around his main computer to all of our shows), and there are lots of other synthesizers, effects, etc. that come in the form of VST's. Some VST's also specialize in hosting samples of real instruments, for which you can download/buy special packages of samples (generally called soundfonts). They're pretty varied - so you're right on both counts when you ask whether they're focused or varied. It really depends on your scope - soundfont readers (samplers) focus on reading soundfonts (libraries), but you can get all sorts of cool soundfonts/libraries to vary things up. This is probably what you had in mind (regarding the one VST to rule them all). Similarly, synthesizers are focused on producing a sound based on some kind of wave, but the number of sounds you can get from a synthesizer is really only limited by your imagination and ability to use ADSR filter, LFO's to control stuff, HPF, LPF, and BPF, etc... If you read some of the guides around this forum you can learn a lot about this kind of stuff in a relatively short amount of time. Aside from actual sound generation/reproduction, there are also signal processing VST's. Examples are any guitar amp/effects modeler (not technically an instrument, since it takes input from an actual guitar), limiters, compressors, reverb, eq, stereo imaging... the list goes on and on.

If you want my opinions, then I believe you'll never really find a good guitar sound without playing an actual guitar (although I'm starting to think otherwise, thanks to ISW's Shreddage at http://impactsoundworks.com/products/instrumental/shreddage - although this is really only good for heavily distorted guitar sounds). I don't have much experience with drum programming, but from what I hear in several remixes here, you can actually get a pretty decent sound with sequenced drums (from what I understand, NI's Battery has some pretty sweet drum sounds, and you can also visit ISW's website again and check out Groove Bias for some sweet vintage drum sounds). For sampled sounds I use NI's Kontakt, and for synthesizers I use Synth1, NI's Massive, and the Subtractor in Reason. For mastering, you'll want at LEAST a limiter and reverb, although most DAW's come with decent limiters and okay reverb now. My personal favorite for each of these is the Waves L1 (limiter) and the Waves IR-L (reverb).

After you have the sounds, usually one would use a sequencer to put them together and save the sequence of notes/sounds. A good first sequencer is Reason, if you can get access to it, but if you're serious about this then I'd go with FL Studio for all of your sequencing/editing/mixing/mastering needs and just learn that.

Regarding your last question, most VST's are usually compatible with pretty much anything. When you start really getting into music production and start switching DAW's and learning each one's idiosyncrasies, you'll get a better feel of whether or not a particular VST will work with a particular DAW. For example, although I love Pro Tools (and the studio/editing suites here on campus have lots of nifty Waves plugins that we use with it), for my personal stuff I usually use Adobe Audition (it's cheaper). Audition natively thinks of every track as stereo, even if it's a mono track. Can't use a mono limiter on a stereo track - only multi-mono or stereo limiter.

Again, look around the forums here just a little bit more - most of your questions should be answered. The information you're looking for isn't just in the stickies, so you'll probably have to look a little harder.

[theshaggyfreak]

If you're strictly just interested in recording piano, you're pretty much set. The Pro Tools M-Powered Essentials will get you where you need to go. Also, your Pro Tools comes with a plugin called the Mini Grand which is actually a fairly nice sounding piano plugin. Personally, I would use what you have for a while and see how well it works with your personal work flow.

[PROTO·DOME]

No one's pointed out that Reason is the only one not compatible with VSTs but anyway, Skewered Logic has nailed this. Protools isn't good for MIDI sequencing, in fact, it's terribad. That being said, there's no better DAW for use in the studio; perfect for live users who just want to record something and chop it up. I'm an FL user and I must say that FL is more than capable of recording both MIDI and live input (a single source at a time though), if you were considering going with that.

It might be worth hitting up some of the other DAW's demos to see if you prefer the flow. You could try:

Protools (Full version is OSX only)

FL Studio

Reason (no vst support)

Cubase

Sonar

Ableton Live

Reaper ("Free", you can carry on using it after the trial period.)

Logic (OSX only)

There are some others, but these are the big ones.

[Moseph]

Also, both FL Studio and Sonar are Windows only, if that makes any difference.

[Squint]

Hey guys, thanks for the responses!

skewered logic -

It sounds like I've got what I need, for the most part. If Pro Tools can be used as a DAW (and is in fact, a DAW), I can fool around with that a bit more and figure some things out from there. My confusion must come from the fact that the original stuff I recorded sounded dry to the judges' ears, and when Palpable took a personal look into it, he informed me that a big barrier was that I was recording in mono through a direct line out cable. If I recorded in MIDI, which it sounds like I'm capable of doing, I would be able to play a lot more with the track and use effects in a better way. So I think I will just get a MIDI to USB converter thinger, and will hopefully be able to make something that sounds a lot better than what I had before Vinnie helped me out with the mastering.

As for VSTs, I'm looking forward to possibly looking into these more, and I will look around more on the forums to find out more about the specifics. However, just a quick question here - is a VST an actual physical object, or just something you download, or software on a CD, that you install into your DAW software? You said this:

"Different VST's have different strengths. Synth1 is a lightweight (and still pretty powerful) VST that a friend of mine uses in our band (he can't carry around his main computer to all of our shows), and there are lots of other synthesizers, effects, etc. that come in the form of VST's." It makes me think that it's an actual physical object. True?

And last...you said that once I have all the sounds, I should look into getting a sequencer. Is this not something that would be built into a DAW?

theshaggyfreak -

It's great to hear that my Pro Tools has a good plugin, in the Mini Grand. This would be considered a built in VST, then? When recording, I remember fooling around with the plugins a bit, but the only things I saw were options like "Brick Wall" and "Acoustic Guitar," which I figured were just pre-set bass and treble levels and whatnot. These didn't actually change the sound of the instrument (to trumpet, guitar, etc.), just the acoustics. Am I missing something?

ProtoDome -

Thanks for the quick list! I think I will test out Pro Tools a little bit and see if simply getting that MIDI cable to USB converter thing would be enough to get me started. After I figure out if that would work for me, I will definitely look into some other DAWs, as I am not opposed to spending to get something more streamlined, better quality, better supported, etc. However, it sounds like sort of personal preference regarding whether or not Pro Tools is a good DAW.

Thanks again guys. I will try to search around a bit more, too, it's just that most things that I did find in the forums, including the guides and tutorials, didn't necessarily have the step-by-step, "Dude, just get a MIDI cable, stick it in your piano, put the USB end into your PC, the DAW is the recorder and the VST is a component of it, etc. etc." laid out for a complete beginner. At least, not how they all work together and hook up. I will keep looking, though, I could just suck at finding these things.

[Moseph]

is a VST an actual physical object, or just something you download, or software on a CD, that you install into your DAW software?

A VST is software. What he meant by "lightweight" was that the Synth 1 VST doesn't use a lot of system resources to run, so his friend can run it on a laptop while gigging.

And last...you said that once I have all the sounds, I should look into getting a sequencer. Is this not something that would be built into a DAW?

Yes, the sequencer is built into the DAW. Pro Tools' sequencer isn't the most convenient to use, but it will get the job done.

It's great to hear that my Pro Tools has a good plugin, in the Mini Grand. This would be considered a built in VST, then? When recording, I remember fooling around with the plugins a bit, but the only things I saw were options like "Brick Wall" and "Acoustic Guitar," which I figured were just pre-set bass and treble levels and whatnot. These didn't actually change the sound of the instrument (to trumpet, guitar, etc.), just the acoustics. Am I missing something?

There are two types of VSTs: effects plugins and instruments. It looks like you've maybe been looking at the effects, which are generally accessible from the channel strips in the mixing console view (I don't remember specifically how things are accessed in Pro Tools). The instruments, if you have them, might be accessed by something like an insert instrument command in one of the file menus.

(Just a technical note: A plugin is an effect or instrument that the DAW can access. A VST is a specific plugin format that many DAWs are able to access. Technically speaking, Pro Tools doesn't use VSTs; it uses a format called RTAS for its plugins, but I think you can get bridges that let you use the VST format in Pro Tools, and it doesn't really matter much anyway, since most plugins are available in multiple formats.)

[Squint]

Awesome dude, thanks for the clarification! This community rocks.

[skewered logic]

VST's are software plugins, so it's something you can download. Some companies that sell VST's do indeed require an external key-storage device like an iLok, but that's usually just for when you start spending upwards of like $100 on a plugin. Even then, most of them don't require any kind of physical device.

I guess after rereading your original post, if you're only interested in doing piano work then you probably don't need a sequencer. With sequencers it can become unnecessarily complicated to do simple things like tempo changes, since almost everything done in sequencers is usually locked into time. You can always use Pro Tools as a host for your VST's, which actually isn't so bad. Pro Tools only really falls short when you want to quantize and edit MIDI sequences, but you can still work with it.

Edit:

Yeah, what Moseph said.

[Squint]

Sounds good, skewered. Your original reply will be of particularly great help when I get my setup going!

By the way, I like that you started bolding things the way I have been in my posts. Sorry if it's contagious.

[skewered logic]

Haha it is, in a good way. I found after rereading the bolded parts I understood where you were coming from and what exactly you were asking better. Not in time for my initial reply, but glad it'll help. Best of luck!

[theshaggyfreak]

Squint,

Pro Tools doesn't use VST but it uses RTAS which is another plugin format. The Mini Grand should have come with the software according to Avid's website. This is where it'll be:

1) Create a new instrument track - Track/New/ and choose a Stereo Instrument track.

2) Go to your Mix Window - Click on Window and then Mix.

3) Click an empty space under the channel inserts and you'll get a menu. Go to Multi-Channel plugin/Instrument/Mini-Grand

That's where it should be.

If you want to use a VST in Pro Tools, you need the VST2RTAS plugin from FXpansion. It's the only way I know of to do it.

[Yoozer]

Lastly, are all VSTs compatible with all DAWs?

No. A DAW supports the VST standard. Some don't - Logic only supports AU, and you need an adapter, like the earlier mentioned ProTools that supports RTAS.

Some VSTs (usually the free/cheap ones) on Windows are .dll files. You copy that file to the VST Plugins folder that your DAW uses, and you're done. Some are .exe files which ask you nicely where your VST Plugins folder actually is - VSTs may require one or more folders to store settings in. I've no experience with how OS X does it, but it shouldn't be that much different.

A .dll file is an executable; the reason you can't just double-click it and start it up is because it doesn't do audio and MIDI management. FL Studio, Cubase, or whatever DAW you use does that for you - that's why it's called a host.

You hook up your digital piano. You play a note. It travels through your MIDI/USB cable to the computer, which receives it and sends it to your DAW. The DAW receives the note and sends it to the currently selected plugin/channel/whatever; then, it no longer cares about the MIDI part.

Your plugin receives the note. It does not know or care where it comes from; all it knows is "OK, I need to react to the middle C". It makes a sound, which is sent back to the DAW's internal mixer. The DAW sends it to your soundcard, which converts it from a digital bag of bits to an analog voltage, which comes out of the soundcard's output, which goes to the amplifier, which then goes to the speaker and makes it move.

[Squint]

Hmm, alright, I think I get it, but will be more sure once I actually record something with the MIDI cable hooked up. Unfortunately, the music section of my Best Buy was closed when I got there today, so I'll stop by tomorrow and get a cord and hopefully get some hands on time with this thread opened up on my laptop. It all sorta makes sense right now, but it won't come until I actually see what you guys are talking about. It's all very informative, though!

Yoozer -

"You hook up your digital piano. You play a note. It travels through your MIDI/USB cable to the computer, which receives it and sends it to your DAW. The DAW receives the note and sends it to the currently selected plugin/channel/whatever; then, it no longer cares about the MIDI part.

Your plugin receives the note. It does not know or care where it comes from; all it knows is "OK, I need to react to the middle C". It makes a sound, which is sent back to the DAW's internal mixer. The DAW sends it to your soundcard, which converts it from a digital bag of bits to an analog voltage, which comes out of the soundcard's output, which goes to the amplifier, which then goes to the speaker and makes it move."

This is the exact kind of language I'm looking for. In human terms, what the heck is going on? Thanks dude!

[Native Dialect]

I wanted to contribute a brief addendum regarding Reason.

It is true that Reason lacks VST support. However, Reason supports a protocol known as ReWire. ReWire allows you to control software synthesizers and other DAWS as if they were one tool (in other words, all at once, from a single DAW). Unfortunately, Reason can only serve as the ReWire master for the ReBirth synthesizer. In all other cases, Reason is the subordinate when using ReWire. However, if you use something like Pro Tools or FL Studio, you can ReWire Reason into those DAWs, effectively making Reason something akin to a prodigious VST with nigh infinite possibilities for instrument creation.

In fact, that is the greatest thing about Reason. You can pretty much create whatever you want just by using the Malstrom, NN-XT and NN-19 and a Combinator. Sure the NN-XT sort of replaces the 19, but everything can be automated on the 19, so it is still useful. And for the rare occasion that you can't create something you really want/need, you can always do a live recording, chop it up with ReCycle (a loop editing tool that exports files in the rx2 format) and sample it with Rex Loop Player.

Good luck, and I look forward to hearing your future productions.

[Squint]

Quick question - is there a difference between the quality of MIDI to USB cables? I just went to Best Buy and grabbed a 10 foot cord for $60, even though I saw one on Amazon for $7. I made sure that I could return it within 30 days, just in case there is no difference (sort of like there's no difference between an $80 HDMI cable and a $3 one).

Looking around a bit, it seems like some cheap ones may have a hard time getting all the notes, or information, you play on your piano to register onto your PC. Would I be a fool to stick with the $60 purchase?

[theshaggyfreak]

Quick question - is there a difference between the quality of MIDI to USB cables? I just went to Best Buy and grabbed a 10 foot cord for $60, even though I saw one on Amazon for $7. I made sure that I could return it within 30 days, just in case there is no difference (sort of like there's no difference between an $80 HDMI cable and a $3 one).

Looking around a bit, it seems like some cheap ones may have a hard time getting all the notes, or information, you play on your piano to register onto your PC. Would I be a fool to stick with the $60 purchase?

You really can't make the comparison to HDMI cables. With MIDI to USB, there is a converter involved and not all of these converters are created equal. For general use, most of them are okay but you can run into issues if you're doing more than just sending CC messages from your MIDI controller. That probably doesn't mean a hell of a lot to you, though.

If you just need one single MIDI I/O, this is what I'd recommend. I have one and have used it for a number of different things over the years.

http://www.zzounds.com/item--MDOUNO

[Squint]

"For general use, most of them are okay but you can run into issues if you're doing more than just sending CC messages from your MIDI controller. That probably doesn't mean a hell of a lot to you, though."

Yes, you are absolutely correct in that regard. But it's still helpful, I just wanted some sort of validation of the increased price tag, and I think I got it. Thanks!

[theshaggyfreak]

Despite the age of the technology, MIDI can get really complicated when you really dive into how it works. There's a lot of it that I still don't really get but just know that it works.

[Yoozer]

What did you buy for those sixty bucks?

Generally you want a brand USB MIDI cable because of driver support. While audio companies generally drag their heels anyway I'd feel a bit safer with say, E-mu or M-Audio than with some vague manufacturer that only supplied Windows 98/XP drivers from a photocopied faxed page with an ftp adress pumping bits at the blinding speed of 300 baud or something.

[Squint]

Yoozer -

I bought some Hosa brand cables. Gonna be honest, didn't do too much research into those, just what I saw on Amazon. Figured I'd buy them today at Best Buy since I could get them right way and would be able to return them - I mainly just wanted to test them out and see if I could get my piano going as a MIDI device. Turns out I'll be returning them tomorrow, as I'm having a good bit of trouble getting it to work. I even brought in my laptop and software to Best Buy so they could show me the ropes, but they couldn't figure out why no input seemed to be registering for any instrument they hooked the cables up to.

"...some vague manufacturer that only supplied Windows 98/XP drivers from a photocopied faxed page with an ftp adress pumping bits at the blinding speed of 300 baud or something."

Dude, you hit it right on the nose. The only driver support I could find was a step-by-step PDF file, and I couldn't get past step two, which was to go to an FTP address (which didn't work). I just ordered the ones shaggy suggested from zZounds, as I've read at least one anecdote from a person who had the same problem as me, bought the M-Audio ones, and everything worked fine. I'll cross my fingers that my problem is with the cables, and not my Pro Tools software...

[Squint]

Just wanted to say to all you guys who helped out on this thread, a many thanks. Unfortunately, the path I've taken has led me to realize that the DAW I currently have (Pro Tools - M-Powered Essentials 8 ) is unable to record MIDI from my piano, despite the fact that I got the fancy cord to go along with it. If I want to record MIDI, I'll have to upgrade to the full version. It's a drag, since I essentially blew $100.00 plus on that Essentials software, thinking that it could do the MIDI thing (though, I did know that it was a stripped down version of the full one) but that was almost a year ago, so I guess it's not that big a deal.

Anyway, I'm either going to shell out for the full version, or look into purchasing Fruity Loops or Reaper, as I've heard better overall things about the latter two than Pro Tools. Plus, I've just sorta had a beast of a time with tech support with Pro Tools at this point!

Thanks again for the help, and don't think it was for nothing. I've got this thread bookmarked so I can look back on it once I get everything set to go. Eventually.

[mickomoo]

Keep pro tools in mind for the future. I'm just starting out too, the cool thing is while I'm using mixcraft, this "freeware" DAW, my dad back home has pro tools so I can use it to edit. Like Proto said, for sequencing pro-tools is not really that good. In general it has a particularly high learning curve to. My dad has started midi sequencing w/ it though, if you really wanna get a midi input setup going I could ask my dad what he did. But it is probably a better idea for now to get another DAW for sequencing, then convert it to midi and mix and edit it in protools.

Keep pro tools, but realize that yeah.. it has a real learning curve. Also you have to pay for certain features even with the complete version, right now at home we can't save our files to mp3 without paying more money. Anyways, if you're sequencing elsewhere, that should at least half the difficulty I guess.

Another thing, for future reference, pro tools does support 3rd party VSTs I believe but I don't specifically know how to get it to recognize them, part of the reason I didn't install it on my laptop was cus I couldn't get it to read my VST. It was for the best though cus sequencing in pro-tools isn't simply plug and play and that's what I was looking for lol.

[Nabeel Ansari]

VST is a universal plug-in format (except for Macs because Apple sucks) that stands for "Virtual Studio Technology". Barebone VST installations are just .dll files you put into the C:\Program Files\VstPlugins folder. Most DAW's (including the glorious FL Studio) look in here, and then run it as an application extension (plug-in) in some sort of wrapper utility that can read VST's and "wire" (meaning set up the signal/data transfers) them correctly to the DAW (in terms of MIDI ports, parameters, anything really).

More advanced VST's are also .dll's, but if they're samplers with libraries (like Kontakt 4 or East West Symphonic Orchestra), they have a metric ton of files that are stuck in a nearby directory (samples) so that it can properly play the files back however you play or sequence them from your DAW. Your DAW sends the MIDI information (gotten from either the MIDI editor [piano roll] or your keyboard) to the VST and it does its thing.

VST's in a nutshell. Any software nerds can nitpick and correct any stupid mistakes if I made any.

Also: Pro Tools uses its own plug in format called RTAS. Like the guy said above, getting VST's to work might not be a practical waste of time. To answer your question before, the stuff built in are not VST's. They are simply just plug ins built into the software. They're called native plug-ins and aren't programmed or handled like VST's because they are integrated directly into the DAW. Think of VST's as a popular form of foreign technology. Your DAW translates it so you can interface with it, but native plug-ins need no translation as they are not foreign.

[Squint]

Mickomoo -

I'm glad to hear you somewhat vouching for Pro Tools. I figured I just bought a dud (especially considering I bought the "Essentials" version"), but maybe I would be able to use it for editing after the initial record into something like FL Studio. I guess I never even thought of importing a file from one to the other - I still have lots to learn! I will definitely keep this in mind.

Neblix -

Thanks for the clarification, it helps to understand what the computer is thinking when it's using a VST, and how Pro Tools works a bit differently. You mentioned FL Studio as being "glorious." I think I know what you mean. I just downloaded the demo version yesterday, and am already getting way more out of it than I did in Pro Tools. Now, I'm not saying that it's necessarily a better program with only a couple days under my belt, but I can say that I've had an easier time at least getting something going, and the learning curve seems to be way lower than Pro Tools. Though I think the amount of YouTube videos on FL Studios is a major help, I do feel the program is set up more nicely for beginners.