First time synth user--what can I improve?

[x_loto]

Hiya! I'm working on something I hope to eventually submit, using Buzz Tracker for the first time in 12 years. I used to use Impulse Tracker and MODPlug a lot for guitar alt-rock tracks; they were never great mixes, but I learned to use the programs pretty well I guess. I only used Buzz for one song, which I thought turned out okay (again, not great) but I really didn't know what I was doing at the time. Now, I still don't, but I'm going to figure it out!

The thing is, I really want to do this song primarily in, I dunno, you could call it kind of a dreamy down-tempo synth-pop style. I also want to shy away from samples, and stick with live instruments along with virtual synths (which is why I'm using Buzz; new tools, but familiar workspace), but I know next to nothing about tone synthesis. I've managed to set up three tones to form the basis of the song:

1) Meant to resemble a plucked string. -Ish.

2) Meant to be a dark, warm pad with a super-slow attack for long sustained chords. Darkness and warmness debatable. (Why is it called a "pad," anyway? Not knowing what things are makes them hard for me to work with....)

3) A bell-like tone with some inharmonic...harmonics, which fades in and out of the mix.

I know all three of these need heavy tweaking, but I'm not sure what I need to tweak. Assistance is much appreciated! You can find the outline of the track here: https://soundcloud.com/the_road_ends/phoenix-prelude-wip-buzz ...Yes, it's that Prelude. Also in the playlist is a previous outline for the same song done in MODPlug Tracker using GM MIDI samples and some old drum samps, if you feel like looking at that too, but it has served its purpose and I won't be working on that one. /shrug

Let me know if I need to supply any extra info!

[Clem]

Cool. I dig this. Nice patches/reharmonization. Getting Nosaj Thing vibes. If you wanted to add dynamics, a fat bass patch with some sub frequencies would be a good layer to bring in. I also like some of the details in the other version you have. Particularly the high notes that show up at the apex of the arpeggios.

[Kanthos]

Why is it called a "pad," anyway? Not knowing what things are makes them hard for me to work with

You don't need to know where the term came from to know what a pad is and how and when to use it (when I have the opportunity to teach less-experienced keyboard players, I just define it as "a sustained sound playing the basic chord changes that fills in the gaps of a song"). But, after a quick Google search, I believe the term came from the idea of padding something out or adding padding, in other words, to use something relatively unimportant which fills in the space, which is pretty much the definition I use.

A couple thoughts on the song itself: the pad is really good. You don't want to use a pad that just sits there without any motion to the sound unless everything else is really busy; a sustained sound that never changes gets old really quickly. Your choice of sound there is fitting.

Maybe it's what you're going for, but I'm not a fan of how the bell part detunes when you get higher up the keyboard. Maybe adjusting the key tracking on the oscillator pitch will help, assuming it's not intentional. Or maybe it's a subtle clashing between the slower and faster arpeggiated parts.

Lastly, I don't really like how the arpeggiated parts jump down an octave and repeat the same notes (eg. A3 B3 C4 E3 A3 B3 C4 E5 etc. - it's the A3 B3 and C4 that are repeated). Sounds like you're compensating for a keyboard that had a fixed number of octaves. But couldn't you edit the part to drop the notes down to where they are in the original melody?

Edited November 11, 2013 by Kanthos

[timaeus222]

Kanthos covered a lot of good info here. He has some good points.

Also, there's some odd clicking going on throughout. It's really quiet, but it's there, so see if you can figure out why.

[Eino Keskitalo]

Hello fellow tracker (I use Renoise though). I actually like the "degrading" feel when the arpeggio goes up, gives it a nice texture. Yeah, the whole thing sounds like a pretty good start. The pad indeed has some nice "life" in it.

Not sure if all that the pad plays really gels harmonically with the arpeggio though. Around 2:11 seemed a bit jarring, the idea of changing the chord to something like that is probably good, but you might want to try to adjust the arpeggio to fit into it or something. I think there may be some lower notes in the pad (like at 0:37? 1:40?) that also seem to clash a bit.. sounds also kinda cool at the same time. (I know you asked about synths specifically but anyway..)

--Eino

[x_loto]

Clem: Thank you! I'm going to record a bass guitar part for this, but an extra bass layer might not be a bad idea. As for those high notes, I still need to do some EQ or something on the newer version so they're clearer. I feel like that part is just bit muddy, but this is just the barest outline of a song so there's time.

Kanthos: Very true, I don't need to know where the word comes from. But I like to know, and now it makes perfect sense. Thanks! And thanks also for the input on it; it's nice to know I'm doing at least one thing right from the start!

For the negatives you mentioned, a real bell will have some non-harmonic overtones, but I agree that these are turned up too high. I'll do some more research (and experimentation) to see if I should maybe use different overtones altogether, and I'll definitely lower the volume. Edit: After some more reading it seems I misunderstood the inharmonics of bells, and I've adjusted the tones accordingly. The result is a lot less jarring!

But the octave jump in the arpeggio...that's entirely intentional, and is an aspect of the song I plan to keep. The original FFI version does actually have that shifting in it. Some call it a bug, and it just seems odd that only notes below C4 would be shifted up, wherever they are; some chords had three notes shifted, others only one. Whatever the reason, despite the fact every version of the Prelude since has had a straight four-octave arp, this is always the version that I hear when I think of it. That's what I wanted to homage specifically.

timaeus222: The clicking may be coming out of the light flange effects. There was some more audible stuff early on that went away when I changed the settings on it; I'll hunt it down!

evktalo: When you said 2:11, I knew exactly which note you meant! The pad is playing a four-part harmony, and since each chord is 10 sec long (when I said downtempo, I meant it, ja? lol), I have two or more of the voices vary their notes to create some extra motion and tension. Most of the bass notes I used were A, and simply drop down to a G# as the arp descends before leading back to another A (except in the E chord, where the bass stays at G#). But the FM7 bit sounds a bit different. I kept the same A in the bass, let it come down to that same G#, and then led it down to G-natural for the GM7, so it's a chromatic passing tone. It clashes a lot, since it's enharmonic with Ab so there's a "split third" thing going on in the FM7. I'm on the fence about whether I like it, since the theory is sound (pun intended), but not all theories sound well. I'm not sure about changing the arpeggio though, since part of the idea was to create tension.... Of course, in the end it depends on how it sounds, so I'll try it and see what happens!

Thanks to all four of you for your input!

Edited November 12, 2013 by x_loto
Additional info

[Kanthos]

Kanthos: Very true, I don't need to know where the word comes from. But I like to know, and now it makes perfect sense. Thanks! And thanks also for the input on it; it's nice to know I'm doing at least one thing right from the start!

For the negatives you mentioned, a real bell will have some non-harmonic overtones, but I agree that these are turned up too high. I'll do some more research (and experimentation) to see if I should maybe use different overtones altogether, and I'll definitely lower the volume. Edit: After some more reading it seems I misunderstood the inharmonics of bells, and I've adjusted the tones accordingly. The result is a lot less jarring!

But the octave jump in the arpeggio...that's entirely intentional, and is an aspect of the song I plan to keep. The original FFI version does actually have that shifting in it. Some call it a bug, and it just seems odd that only notes below C4 would be shifted up, wherever they are; some chords had three notes shifted, others only one. Whatever the reason, despite the fact every version of the Prelude since has had a straight four-octave arp, this is always the version that I hear when I think of it. That's what I wanted to homage specifically.

I wouldn't say you're doing the pads "right" (unless you mean, "I wanted to use a pad, and actually did, instead of using something else", which all in all, isn't much of an accomplishment ). Rather, you made a choice that I, as a listener, found pleasing.

Music is really subjective, and from a compositional and arrangement point of view, you can find exceptions to virtually every "rule", so I hope you don't take anyone's suggestions in this area as "things you MUST do". (Mixing, when you get to that point, is another issue altogether).

Cool about the arp; I haven't heard the original prelude in so long, so I'm sure you're right and I didn't notice it. Perfect example of a subjective aesthetic choice here, and I don't presume to say "change it and do it my way just because".

The bells also is a preference of mine. I did find it really jarring, but whenever I use those kinds of tones in my keyboard playing, I only use sounds that sound in tune. People can take some amount of out-of-tuneness in certain sounds (otherwise why would they have oscillator detune features on synths), but too much often doesn't work. Definitely keep some of that, if that's what you were going for, but yeah, like more people than just me have said, it does sound like too much detune. The key to most things in music is subtlety; too much of a good thing often ends up being not so good.

And, kudos for being a beginner who invites and responds well to suggestions for improvement. That's as important a skill as any for a musician to have

Edited November 12, 2013 by Kanthos

[x_loto]

Of course, of course! When I said I did it right, I merely meant that someone liked it, lol. And I assure you I am not one to change something based on advice alone; I've been known to do the exact opposite of advice on occasion! ("What's that? You say there's too much distortion on the rhythm guitar?" /give it three more listens to be sure /turn up the drive by 20% more*) For the bell, I discovered that the strongest overtones are usually a m3 and P5, so it's still a little out of tune with its surroundings but not so much as before.

I've actually been doing music a long time, but I know there's always something more to learn, especially since this is a new style for me to write in. I just wish my playing skills would keep up with my writing! I always hated relying on sequencing because I couldn't play parts cleanly.... I'm a bit better now than the old days though. A bit.

*True story!

[x_loto]

I still haven't addressed the clicking that timaeus heard (but I will!), but I've gone ahead with varying up the arrangement a bit and added an 808. I posted a new wip is posted and took down the alternate version (the one with the drumkit samples). I don't think I'll load any more updates until I have more questions (as I'm sure I will!), probably after I start to add the live instruments.