Heavenly Marshmellows ("Bayou Boogie" & "Stickerbush Symphony" from DKC2) 2021 Update

[BloomingLate]

UPDATE JULY 17th

Latest version with slight mix tweaks. Bass gets its own little climax at the end of the transition / buildup so it doesn't feel like it just keeps hanging there.

DESCRIPTION

I decided to come back to a remix project that I never really finished to satisfaction. I shared an earlier version here on OCR and now I'd like to share the updated version.

This remix combines two tracks from the Donkey Kong Country 2 soundtrack (SNES): "Bayou Boogie" and "Stickerbush Symphony". Original composer: David Wise. This is an updated version from an earlier attempt, titled "Swamped with Nostalgia"

I replaced some instruments and added my own recorded bird song samples. After some problems with mixing I decided to go with a "less is more" approach and cut away samples and instruments to maximize the elements that I like.

Newly added is the acoustic guitar chords, created by NI's Session Guitarist, which gives it the flavor I had been looking for but couldn't produce the first time. The transition between the two tracks now does what I wanted it to do all along!
The overall structure and most instruments have remained the same. So has difficulty mixing and mastering (I slapped on a Maximus preset and tweaked that a little until it sounded right to me. Then came back the next day with semi-fresh ears to do a final tweak.)

Here it is, for your enjoyment. [REMOVED OLD LINK. SEE LATEST ABOVE]

Edited July 17, 2021 by BloomingLate
Updated link

[Perox]

Really like this composition has lot's of energy towards the end, Instrumentation is also very cohesive and the track does not overstay it's welcome and progresses nicely.

HOWEVER. Listening to the mix, the bass is very much over powering and is drowning everything out. I reckon knocking the volume down and making room for the kick drum with some EQ adjustments in the low end would help this track breathe a bit.

Also noticed the snare isn't really popping out at me I think it needs to be turned up slightly and a little play around with the release and attack of the compression to really make it "pop".

Other than that, it's really solid. Would love to hear an updated version with those adjustments.

 

Edited July 7, 2021 by Perox

[BloomingLate]

4 minutes ago, Perox said:

Really like this composition has lot's of energy towards the end, Instrumentation is also very cohesive and the track does not overstay it's welcome and progresses nicely.

HOWEVER. Listening to the mix, the bass is very much over powering and is drowning everything out. I reckon knocking the volume down and making room for the kick drum with some EQ adjustments in the low end would help this track breathe a bit.

Also noticed the snare isn't really popping out at me I think it needs to be turned up slightly and a little play around with the release and attack of the compression to really make it "pop".

Other than that, it's really solid. Would love to hear an updated version with those adjustments.

 

Thanks for your positive and helpful feedback Perox!

That's interesting that you mentioned the bass. On one set of headphones that I used I felt the same: that the bass (which happens to be very subby) was overpowering. Using a different set of headphones the bass was actually almost inaudible! So now I'm not sure which headphones to trust. It definitely clashes with the kick that is rather subby. Perhaps I should consider a different kick or bass (or both)

If you have any ideas for how to overcome this headphones issue (perhaps visual cues to go by in my DAW) I will gladly dive back in and make those suggested improvements.

[Perox]

4 hours ago, BloomingLate said:

Thanks for your positive and helpful feedback Perox!

That's interesting that you mentioned the bass. On one set of headphones that I used I felt the same: that the bass (which happens to be very subby) was overpowering. Using a different set of headphones the bass was actually almost inaudible! So now I'm not sure which headphones to trust. It definitely clashes with the kick that is rather subby. Perhaps I should consider a different kick or bass (or both)

If you have any ideas for how to overcome this headphones issue (perhaps visual cues to go by in my DAW) I will gladly dive back in and make those suggested improvements.

Best technique I learned as a sound engineer is play my music through headphones, speakers and your laptop speakers/phone speakers to get the best reference for your sound.

What always helps my kick drum and bass not clash is this (EQ tips). 

• Cutting everything below 43Hz on the kick
• Sweeping the low end with a bell curve around 80-150 Hz on the bass, cutting around here will make the kick sound more upfront (you want the kick to be the loudest instrument).
• Doing a bell curve sweep around 170-250Hz on your bass to get rid of the mud, recommend -2.5 to -4 dB
• Doing a bell curve sweep around 50-80Hz on your kick because this is where the bass lives, recommend -3.5 dB

Finally, About the visual cue thing, never mix with your eyes but with your ears! I close my eyes sometimes to really take in the sounds and imagine the space in my head.

Hope this advice helps and Happy mixing!

Edited July 7, 2021 by Perox

[BloomingLate]

15 hours ago, Perox said:

Hope this advice helps and Happy mixing!

Okay, I've applied some of your suggestions and swapped out the bass for a less subby one. I tested and mixed on the headphones that are more bass sensitive as well as on my speakers. I'm pleased with the results for now but I'd like your take on it.

As far as I can tell the kick now comes through more clearly without being obnoxious. The snare was boosted a little. The bass is far less intrusive but takes more of a back seat, which in this case is more desirable to me. Listening on my speakers I found that the shaker was standing out too much so I toned that down a bit.

Here is the updated version for you to compare with: https://metapop.com/blooming-late/tracks/heavenly-marshmellows-34bayou-boogie34-38-34stickerbush-symphony34-from-dkc2/195248

(this one on my MetaPop profile, seeing how that allows me to change files, while SoundCloud doesn't.)

Somewhat important discovery: since the acoustic guitar is fully stereo separated it completely disappears on mono devices. Taking it out of stereo separation means a host of new mixing problems. Can I get away with not supporting mono-devices or is that big no-no? :P

[Perox]

8 hours ago, BloomingLate said:

Okay, I've applied some of your suggestions and swapped out the bass for a less subby one. I tested and mixed on the headphones that are more bass sensitive as well as on my speakers. I'm pleased with the results for now but I'd like your take on it.

As far as I can tell the kick now comes through more clearly without being obnoxious. The snare was boosted a little. The bass is far less intrusive but takes more of a back seat, which in this case is more desirable to me. Listening on my speakers I found that the shaker was standing out too much so I toned that down a bit.

Here is the updated version for you to compare with: https://metapop.com/blooming-late/tracks/heavenly-marshmellows-34bayou-boogie34-38-34stickerbush-symphony34-from-dkc2/195248

(this one on my MetaPop profile, seeing how that allows me to change files, while SoundCloud doesn't.)

Somewhat important discovery: since the acoustic guitar is fully stereo separated it completely disappears on mono devices. Taking it out of stereo separation means a host of new mixing problems. Can I get away with not supporting mono-devices or is that big no-no?

Dude! This sounds so good and it really excites me.

I can really take in the space of the whole track, the bass doesn't dominate the whole track and the drums are coming through nice and crisp.

Really love where this is going. 

As for the acoustic guitars, I assume you used a plugin on one acoustic track that made it stereo. You can get away with just making it stereo, but what I usually do with guitars (and makes them sounds fucking HUGE) is: 

• I record myself playing guitar twice (The same part)
• Make sure the tracks are both mono
• Pan one left and one right

Really gives you width and depth.

Sidenote. If you can't play guitar, got someone else to record it and you can't get them to do another take for you. Then i'd suggest copying the track, doing all of the above and put them slightly out of sync. It's very cheap and dirty but it's the best way if you can't get the job done otherwise.

Now when listening I also noticed that the keys sound a bit 'dry' when that bramble blast intro comes in. It's up to you, but you can experiment with reverb and delay and see what works best. 

Finally, this is a great one I learned recently and might be a big game changer for you. Every instrument that isn't drums or vocals doesn't need frequencies above 9KHz. when I applied this to my mixes I was amazed at how clear my synths and guitars were coming through because they weren't clashing with high-hats and cymbals. 

 

If you want more advice i'm happy to give it, but I don't want to go overboard with info right off the bat.

But yeah, really excited to hear the next update!

Edited July 8, 2021 by Perox

[BloomingLate]

12 hours ago, Perox said:

Dude! This sounds so good and it really excites me.

I can really take in the space of the whole track, the bass doesn't dominate the whole track and the drums are coming through nice and crisp.

Really love where this is going.

I'm glad to hear that This part (the final tweaking stage) is usually the part where I get discouraged and give up, haha.

Okay, I rendered one more version with some of those high frequencies cut here and there. The effect seems subtle to me, but perhaps it did improve it if only a little :)

As for the guitar: I use a plugin that has two options: stereo mode and doubling mode. I already had it set to the latter so it has the effect that you're describing (blending two different takes on the same pattern). I had set the channel to full stereo width to make it sound as good as it does. Not doing that significantly weakens the sound. Upon closer listening, it turns out that in mono mode (on the master) the guitar doesn't completely disappear. It makes no difference if I go for stereo mode or doubling mode in the plugin. So I figure I leave it as it is, since you're supposed to listen to it in stereo (or would that be a lazy and very noobish attitude to have?)

Finally, I added some compression to the acoustic guitar and compensated by decreasing its volume. This lets more of the details through at the right moments which I think is an improvement. The overall balance has remained the same, I think.

12 hours ago, Perox said:

Now when listening I also noticed that the keys sound a bit 'dry' when that bramble blast intro comes in. It's up to you, but you can experiment with reverb and delay and see what works best. 

By "keys" do you mean the higher pitched ostinato pattern? It already has reverb and delay on it. I guess they get lost in the mix a little. I'm personally not too bothered by it, but I slightly boosted them anyway. See if you think this is better.

Here is the updated version for comparison: Metapop link

Thanks again for you input :)

[Perox]

On 7/9/2021 at 12:41 PM, BloomingLate said:

I'm glad to hear that This part (the final tweaking stage) is usually the part where I get discouraged and give up, haha.

Okay, I rendered one more version with some of those high frequencies cut here and there. The effect seems subtle to me, but perhaps it did improve it if only a little

As for the guitar: I use a plugin that has two options: stereo mode and doubling mode. I already had it set to the latter so it has the effect that you're describing (blending two different takes on the same pattern). I had set the channel to full stereo width to make it sound as good as it does. Not doing that significantly weakens the sound. Upon closer listening, it turns out that in mono mode (on the master) the guitar doesn't completely disappear. It makes no difference if I go for stereo mode or doubling mode in the plugin. So I figure I leave it as it is, since you're supposed to listen to it in stereo (or would that be a lazy and very noobish attitude to have?)

Finally, I added some compression to the acoustic guitar and compensated by decreasing its volume. This lets more of the details through at the right moments which I think is an improvement. The overall balance has remained the same, I think.

By "keys" do you mean the higher pitched ostinato pattern? It already has reverb and delay on it. I guess they get lost in the mix a little. I'm personally not too bothered by it, but I slightly boosted them anyway. See if you think this is better.

Here is the updated version for comparison: Metapop link

Thanks again for you input

This is really great, that delay on the ostinato is really coming through and adds this layer of emotion to the track during sticker brush. I can also hear the acoustic guitar isn't competing with the snare and high hat in the higher frequencies anymore and coming in nice and clear (in the previous mix the attack of the plectrum was clashing with both of them). 

As for using a compressor on the acoustic, I tend to stay away from compressing my guitars, but a little bit is fine and it doesn't sound too overdone here.

You're also fine with stereo. It's mostly old albums back in the 50s that used to be in mono. but most people these days have 2 speakers, Headphones and even on phone speakers it shouldn't matter that much.

If you don't mind, I would love to have a go at doing a version of this mix myself with clean stems and obviously you would get a different result but I could give you some insight to what i've done.

You can send stems in a folder with DropBox, WeTransfer or MEGA. (WeTransfer is easy because you can just send a download link).

But don't get discouraged, you are very close to a finished product!

 

 

 

Edited July 10, 2021 by Perox

[BloomingLate]

On 7/10/2021 at 3:07 PM, Perox said:

If you don't mind, I would love to have a go at doing a version of this mix myself with clean stems and obviously you would get a different result but I could give you some insight to what i've done.

We can do that

I've prepared the stems for you but they total around 600 MB, which seems like an awful lot. They're all 16 bit WAV. Should we go ahead with that or do I need different settings? Uploading this will probably take ages :P

[BloomingLate]

I'm setting this to "Ready for Review". I'd like an Evaluator to comment on whether they think this remix has a chance to be accepted by the Judges.

Latest version that I'd like to submit:

 

[Perox]

On 7/17/2021 at 10:55 AM, BloomingLate said:

We can do that

I've prepared the stems for you but they total around 600 MB, which seems like an awful lot. They're all 16 bit WAV. Should we go ahead with that or do I need different settings? Uploading this will probably take ages

Sweet!

Is that just the clean stems without any effects on them? that might be why they are hefty, otherwise I have projects that are like 1GB so nothing out of the ordinary there.

Shouldn't take that long honestly!

[BloomingLate]

20 hours ago, Perox said:

Sweet!

Is that just the clean stems without any effects on them? that might be why they are hefty, otherwise I have projects that are like 1GB so nothing out of the ordinary there.

Shouldn't take that long honestly!

They're clean stems without effects alright. The zipped file is actually a lot smaller, so this shouldn't be a problem. I'm sending you a PM with the download link. It will expire after a week so don't wait too long to grab it. Good luck!

[Perox]

2 minutes ago, BloomingLate said:

They're clean stems without effects alright. The zipped file is actually a lot smaller, so this shouldn't be a problem. I'm sending you a PM with the download link. It will expire after a week so don't wait too long to grab it. Good luck!

Awesome, thanks very much! I'm excited to have a look and see what I can do.