Robotnik Ragnarok - Help??

[Zoyg]

Hey guys

I made this song and, of course, it was rejected. Apparently, it was too repetitive.

It's a ReMix of the Sonic 1 Final Zone. I'd love to hear some suggestions, because yeah.

It can be found at http://one.fsphost.com/yeldarbizzim/Robotnik%20Ragnarok%20OC%20ReMix.mp3

[227]

Apparently, it was too repetitive.

It is.

I'd love to hear some suggestions, because yeah.

Try making it less repetitive.

[Zoyg]

I restructured the song a little, hopefully, it's not so bad now. It's the same link as the original.

[Theory of N]

I didn't hear the first version, but it still sounds incredibly repetitive. You have about two or three parts to the song that play two times in a row about three or four times each.

It's also really really muddy. There were times that I couldn't distinguish the melody from the background and that's not good.

[227]

I'm not liking the samples. They're just...typical, and I'm not hearing much rearrangement of the source material. Very formulaic stuff, here. I'd like to hear you tap more into your own personal style than rely on the generic techno/trance "this is now RMXed!" wannabe silver-bullet formula.

[Zoyg]

Okay, I've completely restructured the song...added a solo at the end...something generic like that...it certainly isn't as repetitive as it was before, each section basically builds up the sounds... but yeah let's see what you guys think of it.

[DJ-Arthur]

Well, I'm listening now, and I'm liking it! At 0:30, where the synth lead comes in, it sounds a tad off-pitch, but it fixes itself immediatly. No worries.

Drums are really good, and the build up as well.

1:46... Somewhat different lead

and it stays this way until the end, only with different instruments... I guess I lost interest somewhere around 2:30... It gets... repetitive... The same lead-melody just keeps repeating itself, even though you use different instruments.

My Suggestion:

The part from 3:15 'till 3:25, where I expected a transition, the song stops... Don't get me wrong, It's a good ending, but maybe you want to move this section to, let's say, around 2:30 or so, and change the melody from there on... You can even fall back on the first section melody for a little while, to break it up, if you get what I mean. At least, that's what I would have done...

Conclusion:

It's a hard song to work with, and your doing a great job! You make ME want to do something with this song too! hahah... But, Somehow, I get the feeling you were holding back or something... If you did, don't be affraid to stroll off the beaten path and improvise. Just because the source doesn't include more parts or melodies, doesn't mean you are restricted to what is in there... Great Song, but needs more variaty in the melody (especially from 1:46 to the end) in my opinion.

[Zoyg]

Okay, I've remade the song a bit more... this time, it has a bit of a better ending. Another solo with the structure of the original, then it basically follows through to the ending.

As always, you can get it through the same link.

[DJ-Arthur]

Nice work! The break around 2:30 with the guitar is just what it needs in my opinion. A bit more polish and this would be excelent, but what you have now is already an awesome piece of work!

[Zoyg]

Okay, I think I've polished it all up and it should be OCReMix material now with a bit of luck... Thanks for all the help that you guys have given me, especially Altus Audacia and DJ-Arthur... without you guys it probably wouldn't be possible for me to actually make any good changes to it... I'll be back if the song's still not accepted.

Again, thank you for all your help. I really appreciate it, as this is the first actual time I've tried to send a song to OCReMix, and yeah, needed as much help as possible.

[DJ-Arthur]

Well, Best of Luck

[Wiesty]

Ok, well it gets a little better after the halfway mark of the song. But I've noticed its just a lot of different loops built over top of each other, which isn't bad (most techno songs are like that anyway >_>) But it dosen't make for smooth song.

A bit of variation within the beats themselves can help to clean that up. That could be as simple as the loop ending on an A one time and a C the next.

Also it should have more velocity type differences. It seems to just stay at one speed/intensity, which can get a tad boring. Throw in some mellow segues etc. and that'll also help with variation. Either way, this has some good ideas, it just needs some variation to bring those ideas more forward.

[Zoyg]

Unbelievable. Well, actually it's quite believable, but that's not the point.

I guess I'm back to square one. I'm still taking ideas. And thanks for the latest reply! I'll see what I can do to add more variation to it.

This time, they're suggesting the sampling quality or something like that is poor... what in the world does that mean? Does it mean it's just a generally shit song?

[jmr]

I'm listening to what you have here for the first time as I'm typing this, and what I've heard so far sounds really amateur-ish. At the 0:58 mark, for a second it sounds like things are going to improve, but then you go and drop a default FL drum loop on top of everything.

The fact that you're using FL Slayer... well, the fact that I can tell that you are using it isn't good either.

On the plus side, your arrangement shows some promise. The guitar solo in particular is good, but your samples are really bringing it down.

I have to echo the sentiments of the judges panel; your samples are too weak. Look into acquiring some new sample libraries, check out the remixing forums for suggestions.

You say this track was rejected, I couldn't find a judging thread for it. I would have thought that this would be above the bar for the form rejection letter, but maybe Slayer and DL_DrillNB were too much for the judges.

[Arcsynth]

DL_DrillNB...

When I heard that drumloop, I cringed. I hear that all the time.

But as jmr said, the arrangement was good; the guitar solo though, I didn't like so much. Maybe a little variation here and there?

Nice attempt, but if you plan on submitting this I recommend a total reconstruction.

[227]

Alright, I'll cover everything about this that bothers me:

1.) Everything up 'till the lead comes in sounds distant to me, like it's muffled or something. That snare sound is ugly and doesn't help any.

2.) The lead synth....I want you to drag it into an alley and shoot it. Repeatedly. Then find a lead synth that mixes better with everything else.

3.) That drum loop that comes in at 1:02. Wasn't there in previous versions. Take it with the lead synth and shoot them both.

4.) "Guitar" at 2:32. I like the idea, but you can't use fake guitar like that and expect to get away with it. Replace it with a different synth. Hold off on choosing exactly what until you fix some of the other parts, though.

5.) The momentum isn't as static as previous versions, but there still needs to be more contrast between the momentum of the sections. 1:47 - 2:31 sees a buildup of sorts, but it needs to be more gradual and have different textures. It only calms down for a few seconds right now, and it just drops some of the instruments. Add some different pads and a slower drum rhythm. It'd go a long way and make 2:32 stand out more.

6.) The drums in general are getting on my nerves. You should scrap them all, look for some better drum sounds, and sequence some loops yourself. I'd like to see them be more dynamic in the measure or two before a new section. Right now it's essentially switching from one loop to another with little to nothing connecting the two loops, and it's boring as a result. If you were to take my advice in point 5 then the measure before 2:32 could have everything but the drums drop out while the drums do a little solo thing to lead into the next section. Of course, it couldn't be that pronounced every time you start a new section, but it's something I'd like to hear there regardless.

Hopefully some of that is helpful.

[Zoyg]

Hey guys

If you recall, I had something on here last time, a little while ago..

WELL! I had to focus my attention on schoolwork (considering grade 12 almost determines your future lol) and now I'm back.

I've been working hard on Robotnik Ragnarok, much to my demise. Again, the Pretz has said that my sampling quality is poor. Someone tell me what the hell he means by that!

Last time I published a version of Robotnik Ragnarok, it was suggested that I poorly laid out a drumloop, DrillNB, on top of what was originally pretty good...so, I removed that, and removed the Slayer that everyone also disliked. Other stuff has been added as well, like a better drumline, a more interesting solo, and yeah...that's it, I think. I just need to know what YOU think of it, because honestly I think I've done a pretty good job.

If you don't know what I'm talking about, this song is a remix of Sonic 1's Final Zone.

My latest version of this song can be located at http://one.fsphost.com/yeldarbizzim/Robotnik%20Ragnarok%20OC%20ReMix.mp3

Regards,

Zoyg

[HoboKa]

Hey guys

If you recall, I had something on here last time, a little while ago..

WELL! I had to focus my attention on schoolwork (considering grade 12 almost determines your future lol) and now I'm back.

I've been working hard on Robotnik Ragnarok, much to my demise. Again, the Pretz has said that my sampling quality is poor. Someone tell me what the hell he means by that!

Last time I published a version of Robotnik Ragnarok, it was suggested that I poorly laid out a drumloop, DrillNB, on top of what was originally pretty good...so, I removed that, and removed the Slayer that everyone also disliked. Other stuff has been added as well, like a better drumline, a more interesting solo, and yeah...that's it, I think. I just need to know what YOU think of it, because honestly I think I've done a pretty good job.

If you don't know what I'm talking about, this song is a remix of Sonic 1's Final Zone.

My latest version of this song can be located at http://one.fsphost.com/yeldarbizzim/Robotnik%20Ragnarok%20OC%20ReMix.mp3

Regards,

Zoyg

Wow...this is pretty damn good. I think this is pretty darn close to OCR material.

[avaris]

Def some nice ideas. Sample quality would mean the sampled sounds you are using are of low quality. For example the sample used for the snare or the strings samples could be of 'low quality.' Also it's the same kick and snare. Then kick needs more high end. Try to layer in another kick that has more presence in the high end. The snare really starts to sound old by the end of the song because it is the same rhythmic patter and the same velocity. Once the track gets goin the hit hats loose some of their presence.

Your bass and kick share some of the same frequencies. Try to give your bass a boost around 400hz and 2000-4000khz. It lacks a large amount of presence.

The entire song is building up to something...and then nothing happens. The guitar needs to be replaced. Try a synth based on saw wavs and maybe some tri wavs. 2:46 is pretty cool.

The intro is kinda cool but the same chords keep on getting repeated. Also the chords are all done in the same octave. This makes them loose some emotional presence.

Where is the panning? Everything feels very centered. The bass is sitting pretty wide in the stereo field. This is an easy way to muddy up the low end and make the bass loose a lot of it's presence.

Really try add some ear candy. Some parts where as a listener you are just like ooooh that's cool. You bring different elements in and out which is good. 1:47 to 2:31. Waaay too long for a breakdown section. And after that it's another breakdown section. Def work on getting some cool rhythmic textures and build on your orchestral influences and sound design.

[ambient]

It's hard for me to comment on tracks for three main reasons: when I think that the parts I don't like are artist's preference and a matter of taste, I cannot give a useful advice since I am not familiar with the genre, or the remixer has so many different areas to improve upon that I feel like my detailed comments would interfere with the remixer's natural development. I think I used to be more opinionated before my mixes got posted on OCR. Somehow, I feel like I am not well-qualified to influence someone's artistic destiny. However, at times I believe I do have some useful insight to offer.

Anyways, let's get to this mix. Arrangement did not impress me, even though I am not familiar with the original, I am sure you could have done something more interesting with the melody and the supporting instrumentation. The mix is pretty sparse in the first couple of minutes. The synths are generally not impressive. You could probably make the soundscape more interesting by picking better synth patches and playing around with them, gating them, arping them. 2:40-ish and on is pretty cool. But once again, synthage seems to be lacking. The electric guitar patch was pretty good though, some might disagree, but I liked it. 2:46-3:00 is the best part of the mix.

Drums are seriously lacking. I grew tired of that dry 909 snare very quickly. Sequencing is decent and could sound better with higher quality samples, more pump, and more processing. Still, I think you have a lot of room for improvement in drum sequencing as well.

Good luck!

[Zoyg]

Well, I'm back. Sorry that I have failed to update this, as school once again has an evil grasp on me. Thank Christ it's almost over!!

Anyway, the changes have all been in the instruments used... I use a lot of different synths, isntead of the constant array of strings I used.

For the beginning, I replaced the strings with a more natural sounding array of strings, and gave them an extra octave about 16 bars into the song. Something like that.

Also, the main instruments have been changed, and the solo in the end uses a whole new set of drums, just so I spice it up a little.

The bass has been marginalized out of the side speakers, so there's room for the rest of the synths and percussoin to make noise.

I'm not sure about any more changes, but yeah. That's what I've got so far.

Hope you like it. I mean sure, I know there's a few more things I may be able to do, but I need YOUR help to tell me exactly what I've done wrong.

As always, the song is available from the same link.

[Nacho]

For me, I didn't think the bass was loud enough. I even turned the bass on my speakers all the way up and it was difficult to hear. This song needs the "umph" from the bass & it's not getting it.

I'm having difficulty with the drums too. The kick drum starting on 1:02 is rough & almost sounds like it's clipping. The snare is ok but I'm not digging the toms. The toms are lacking a good clean sound, & even if you want those exact tom sounds in your song, they sound too fake, even for this song.

I really think if you found better drum samples or found a way to mix & polish the current ones up that would help significantly. Add that with a louder bass, and you have yourself a pretty good song!

[Robotaki]

haha man I hear yah. grade 11's hard enough...=/ I dun want to even know what's coming next year. Bah, till then, music takes the stress off.

Anyways to the tune:

The major major thing you need right now is better samples. The drum samples are a dead give away, and the some of the generic synths. Spiffem up a bit! There are catchy moments in this piece, so keep it up dude!

[Zoyg]

Well, I've done some more work on the song. I've been blessed with a day off.

SO! My changes...

So far, I've done what you've all been suggesting: change the sampling of the drum kit.

So I've replaced a few of the samples that are currently there with some more...appropriate? samples.... well, in MY opinion, anyway...

Also, the bass had 100% stereo separation in it, which explains why there was lack of doof-doof in it... so, I've merged it, just a little, so it sticks more into the centre of the song.

There were some more minor things, like removing the toms, and just replacing them with 16th snare notes (which sound quite good). I think that's about it.

As always, the song is available from the same link.