Sonic the Hedgehog: Scrapyard Zone (Jazz Version)

[Fredulom]

Hi, I recently finished composing a remix of the Springyard Zone music from Sonic the Hedgehog (Sega Mega Drive/Genesis) and I wanted people's opinions on how it sounds (composition-wise as well as mixed and produced). I was thinking of posting it to be reviewed soon and so I wanted people's opinions. However, this is a first draft and I will be adding small things into the works before it is sent off finally but unless I get dire feedback then I won't change much melodically (it's more about adding crowd sound effects etc...)

http://www.i-horse.co.uk/helmet_stuff/spring_yard_jazz(1).mp3

Thank you for your comments and criticism in advance!!

(btw I don't have a name for it yet, hence the boring one ¬_¬ I will get a good name before I submit it, promise!)

=Fredulom=

[Fredulom]

Sorry for the double post but I posted it as Scrapyard when it's Springyard >.< I'm such a doofus...

=Fredulom=

[jmr]

Wow, this is pretty sweet. However, if you were to submit this one as is, I'm not quite sure if it would pass. First of all, it sounds WAY too compressed. Some of the quieter sections don't sound too bad, but through the majority of the song the levels are near flat.

Secondly, the arrangement is pretty basic. There are a few sections where you stray from the original, but you never really change up things that much. (I haven't listened to the original in some time, so take those comments with a grain of salt.)

You also may want to try boosting the higher frequencies a touch. It could just be my less-than-ideal listening equipment, though. Might want to look for a second opinion on that.

Also, while I do think the applause works to some extent, but is 16 seconds of it at the beginning really necessary? I think a second or two would suffice. Same thing for the end; some of that could be cut.

I really like the overall style of this one, though. With a few tweaks to the production, and some more re-arrangement, I think that this would probably pass.

Looking forward to hearing a revised version!

[Fredulom]

Yeah you're not the first person to say that the applause is a bit long at the start, I'll edit that a bit down...

To some extent it's close to the original but I had a hard time trying to write original material and make it sound "jazzy". If its an issue I'll give it another shot

Yeah I compressed it, I'll try another compressor I have cause I've always thought that the original Cubase SX compressor was a bit 'harsh' to say the least.

And about boosting the high end, I think that's just cause I'm working off sub-standard headphones ¬_¬ My bad... I'll do that as well.

=Fredulom=

[Z]

just wanted to give some support this mix, which sounds wrather nice even though i would like to hear it smoothed out a bit and with alittle more originality added to it.

[Fredulom]

Thanks guys, unfortunately I haven't had time to update this yet (what with going to university soon and working on Knytt Stories) but I have managed to make some other jazz versions of Sonic the Hedgehog songs:

Sonic the Hedgehog 2 - Casino Night Zone: http://www.i-horse.co.uk/helmet_stuff/casino_night_jazz.mp3

Sonic the Hedgehog 3 - Ice Cap Zone: http://www.i-horse.co.uk/helmet_stuff/ice_cap_jazz.mp3

These are both unfinished, but I will get round to finishing ALL of them soon

Please comment all of the songs if you listen,

=Fredulom=

[Kanthos]

I've got plenty of comments on all three tunes.

Spring Yard Jazz: I'd be surprised if this passed without *a lot* of revision. The ideas are reasonably interesting, but three things will help you a lot. 1) This song is basically a wall of sound: horns wailing as loud as they can for the majority. Where are the dynamics? Where's the build in the song; it doesn't have any kind of melodic or dynamic climax. 2) The samples are horrible, particularly for the saxes. Sounds like Garritan Jazz & Big Band to me, which despite being marketed as a great product, absolutely sucks for sax sounds. Even their demos sound fairly unrealistic. If you want to do a convincing big band remix and don't have the capability to record live, expect to do *a lot* of processing on the sax effects to get anywhere near realism. As it stands right now, the sax sounds really take away from the quality of the track. 3) The horn arrangement is too simplistic. It sounded to me like they were all playing unison almost all the time, and were playing the original melody. A good big band arrangement will have the horns playing various chords, and wouldn't stick nearly so close to the original. Rhythmic and harmonic deviations, things like little sax riffs between the melody notes, there's a lot that you can do with the horns to make it sound like a decent big band arrangement. Your version feels somewhat monotonous and plodding. Also, way too much clapping, and this track is simply too loud.

Casino Night: Same wall-of-sound feel and loudness as spring yard. Dynamics The drums sound a lot better, although they need some rhythmic variance in the basic pattern. If you want to go with more of a jazz feel and less of the original (which it seems like you do), don't have the snare play only on 2 and 4; throw in some off-beat snare hits (listen to your favourite jazz albums; there'll be good examples of what I mean on nearly any decent jazz that has a swing beat). The bass is good, although you'd benefit a lot from using an upright bass sound; it sounds like this one is electric. The second chorus seems to go nowhere; there's no real melody, solo, or anything. It sounds like you just forgot to put on another part. My comments about the horns are similar from the last one. This one is much improved, but it still feels a bit too unison and not varied, and the horns are pretty close to the original. This one is significantly better than spring yard, but still needs a lot of work to pull off the style you're going for.

Ice Cap: Can't say as much about this one; the WIP is too short to get a really good idea of where the song could go (I'm assuming that it's not all going to be more of the same). The track sounds fine for what you have; develop it more and I'll comment again.

A thought about doing jazz arrangements. I've tried doing a few myself: a 6/8 version of the Black Omen track from Chrono Trigger reminiscent of Wayne Shorter's Footprints, a latin jazz version of Besaid Island from Final Fantasy X, and most recently, a 5/4 and 6/4 funk/jazz version of a song from Final Fantasy Legend 3 for gameboy. What I've found for each of them, and is mainly the reason none are complete now, is that in jazz above any other genre for remixing, realism is *essential*. A great jazz mix *must* capture the feeling that it could've been played very similar live. You have to think like a jazz drummer with your drum part, think like a bass player with your bass part, think like a pianist with your piano part, and think like an arranger for your horn section. You listen to a techno, rock, or classical track and hear something that's too repetitive and it's not that hard to dismiss that as a minor problem with the composer or band. You hear a repetitive or boring jazz tune, and you think, "No one would actually play it like that", so beyond the fact that it's boring on its own, the nature of the genre highlights that significantly more. Jazz is meant to be organic, live, improvised (well, for some parts, anyway), and natural. It's about sitting back in some coffee shop with your band and letting your collective imagination and interpretation go. The challenge of a good jazz remix is to capture that aura. I'm a long way from where I want to be myself, although in different areas (your drum parts are generally better than mine, for example), and it's a hard and long road. Good luck!

[Fredulom]

Thank you Kanthos for your comments.

Spring Yard Zone was compressed using Cubase's bog-standard Multiband Compressor, which I think is a very indiscriminate compressor (compared to FL Studio's Multiband Compressor, for example) and so this is why the track is so loud. That, and also I haven't changed the dynamics of the brass in ANY of the songs which is also pretty foolish of me... I use Propellerheads Reason 3 for all of this and so you can put the bad brass down to the default Combinator brass patches, what do you suggest I use instead? And I know, I know, the clapping is too loud...

I don't have many jazz albums >.< Only got Takin' Off and Headhunters by Herbie Hancock... and Headhunters is really a jazz fusion album so it doesn't count lol And that big gap is supposed to be for a piano solo... I can't play a decent jazz piano solo so I was going to ask someone else to make it for me. I have tried more improvisation (hence the change to original content near the end) but jazz is a tough genre to write in (as I'm finding out) lol

Thanks again for your comments,

=Fredulom=

[Kanthos]

I don't have any other suggestions for saxes. Garritan Jazz & Big Band will run you about $250 or so, I think, and will at least give you better trumpet/trombone sounds, but won't help out your saxes that much. You can probably get somewhere by using the right processing effects on your saxes, but I'm not an expert in that so I can't really give you any help.

Good luck with it; post some updates when you get them and I'll comment again.

[Z]

there are some live sax players around here,the prophet of maphisto is one i think.If you dont mind my saying,i personally enjoy some jazz arangements that incorporate a guitar solo in addition to the other solos that you might be planning in your mixes. Regardless of what you decide i look forward to hereing future updates.

[Harmony]

Cool Springyard mix. Just a few quick thoughts to add to what’s already been said:

First, I don’t think the samples are your biggest concern in terms of this getting posted. The arrangement is what’s not quite there yet. For a 4min jazz song, there isn’t much soloing or improve here. That’s what jazz is al about man. Like Kanthos said, vary the rhythm, throw in some cool harmonies and expand upon the original…make it unique! 2:05-2:24 is a good example of where you’re heading in the right direction. Nice right hand piano harmony with the main theme and a solid left hand to back it up. Also to add to what Kanthos suggested, you really should head over to google video and search for “jazz drumming.” Don’t just listen…watch those guys and understand what feels natural. Try to imagine a flesh and blood human playing your drum part. As it is right now, I can’t see it, can you?

In fact, I think that the drum work is the weakest part of this mix. I don’t hear any triplets, nothing is syncopated and everything is overly quantized. Two examples that really stand out are the tom roll at 1:00 and the snare roll at 2:15. Way too simple and quantized.

Needs a little work but I really do like what I hear so far. Looking forward to updates.