Compyfox's Content - Page 3 - OC ReMix Community

As a caveat that isn't at all intended to criticize anyone's mastery of the English language, we do intend to translate this into other languages once it is finalized. Obviously, however, for the point of providing feedback, we're stuck with the English version for better or worse.

I'm honored that it seems that I understood at least some of that jibba-jabba. *cough*

Well, I agree that OC ReMix is the one place I'd go to for video game mixes, and that the convenience of having everything together is beneficial. However, it's a large Internet, and trying to prevent distribution elsewhere would be, in my estimation, futile. Therefore, we're just trying to be honest about it, and also encourage that the site and artists be properly credited.

It's not about distributing the material on a random fan page (for example the Turrican Central in Germany). It's about giving my song "away" without asking me first. And to that I count Last-FM as contrary. I don't want to be involved with them, neither do I give you permission for the future, if I should ever submit a remix, to give the tracks to them for "listing" or even "releasing".

Whoever started that crap, and thought it's great, should be shot in my opinion. No offense, but it's enough that I'm listed on that musicmap thing along with Dr. Alban!

If the mix is your own, and you're mastering it & enhancing it, I don't see the problem - the "superior" version would still only be available on your licensed CD. If you wanted to start selling a piece of music you'd previously made available for free... good luck. We won't remove the track for that reason now, and we never would have, even before this policy was created.

THAT IS NOT TRUE. For example the Final Fantasy track that's featured on Project Majestic Mix by Jan Van valbourg (if I can remember correctly that was Anxious Heart) or was it that "Underneath the Rotting Pizza" remix (which also vanished from OCR all of a sudden a couple of weeks after it was released). Both tracks were removed one or the other way because the tracks were later sold on CD.

Steven Kennedy still permits to re-re-release (no typo!) any of those tracks (Zeratul and I wanted to release his Magus remix as remastered version once, but it wasn't possible as the CD is "still sold" and we didn't get permission, even if it was his creative property). So if a firm makes a contract with me, says "your remix is great, redo it please/mix it up, we put it into our next game/on our next compilation CD", or even I decide to release that track as official single internationally, you refuse to remove that track, even if it was online for like 1 year because you insist on "this is OCR, we release our stuff for free, if you want to sell it - screw it!"?

Now that's seriously messed up and arrogant. Would you even continue to stick to that if the lawyers of the original/momentary copyright holders start to sue your page? I guess not. VGMix offered the possibility to remove tracks by the artist, if somebody at KWED would do the same, they say "no problem". What you do here, is setting up a adhesion contract for both musicians and live performers. As if you own the right, even if that is not the case. This is why people went haywire with Cafepress.

Tens of thousands of people have already downloaded every single song on the site... it's out there, and trying to recall it would be, again, futile.

Not if the track is:

a) uncompressed on CD (Stereo)/ DVD-A/SACD (Surround)

enhanced in terms of sound and/or arrangement

Then again, so what? Even if there was once a freeware version, the new version is different, an official release - and if I say "take it down", you have to give in. According to the "rules" setup by you and your lawers, paragraph one, we still remain the rights to our track, which you negate with the very same paragraph we're discussing here.

First above all, ReMixers who submit their music because they think they're helping me personally should reevaluate their reasons for making music in the first place. This should be about honoring game composers and creating music for everyone, not just me.

Sorry, then you should STOP INSTANTLY with what you do and posing with your page on anime conventions. Even if it's a fact that most cames come out of Japan and that topic "games" is spread at conventions, it is no point of having a pannel to pimp your popularity.

It is a fact, that you got that popular thanks to us remixers. WE devoted our time to suit your needs and standards, WE present(ed) your page in radio shows, live gigs, podcasts and conventions, WE wear your swag. In short - WE help you personally. If you think we shouldn't do that, or shouldn't have done that, then think about why OCR is so popular. Sure not because you started it as offspring of that Overclocked webcomic, or as platform to present your remixes.

Nobody is getting popular without any form of help.

Lastly, everyone's free to distribute their music elsewhere as they see fit... such distribution is not mutually exclusive with OC ReMix continuing to distribute their music as well. This honestly seems like a misunderstanding on your part....

Must be either my language barrier - or due to the rules you setup in your first post that I get the impression that something's fishy going on here.

Well, the lockdowns were problematic and potentially offensive in a number of ways. I really don't think we'll ever need to do anything remotely similar ever again. I can assure you that we didn't start quickly deleting pieces on a whim - on the contrary, the process was very long, drawn out, and involved revoting on a number of pieces and serious discussions on policy.

With most of the involved mixers EXCLUDED. Especially with the second lockdown.

That being said, lockdowns aren't explicitly part of this policy. We do reserve the right to remove pieces for a number of reasons, but the actuality is that we're not going to start randomly taking stuff down, as there'd be no reason to, when both the mixer and site staff expended a good deal of effort in making it available in the first place.

This is the problem... The Lockdowns started because somebody decided that the quality standards needed to be pulled through and that certain mixes don't fit OCR anymore, because they're just "not good enough for what OCR is all about".

What if you change the standards in the future, then randomly decide "this mix is off balance, the mixing could be better - we will remove it" or "this mix is not true to the original" or even "this mix is too true to the original, this is no remix", then you remove the remix out of reason because you think this track is not good enough for OCR anymore? This counts to me as censoring at it's worst pace, erasing some of OCR's history, saying that mixer A "was not good enough - so we took him down after two years - he got his share, he should be happy". In other words as with Mission Impossible "we deny that we know you and work for our institution".

This is, in my opinion, just another excuse of powerabuse and negates all rights of a remixer that is submitting to OCRemix.

Again, lockdowns are not part of the site's normal operating procedure, were done to correct mistakes almost entirely made by yours truly, and should never need to occur again. I don't rule out the possibility only because I hate having my words used against me, but I'd be very, very, very, very surprised if we ever had to do another lockdown. Ever.

Wasn't there a third one planned, as soon as you hit 2grand? Or was it 1,5grand? I still remember that from before I was banned. Will you really stick to that?

See my previous answer; nothing is prohibiting commercial sale of a previously posted mix, assuming the artist has obtained licensing permission, the piece is not being presented as an OC ReMix, and the label understands that a version of the track will continue to be distributed freely as an OC ReMix.

No, the label will say "put it down", and you have to give in - period. It's their right to do so, as they hold the only rights for the distribution now. I on the other hand had to remove it from all places where it was "once available" to fulfill that contract.

Please read some books about it (in German it's GEMA, GVL & KSK - very informative), or ask your befriended lawers. It was always like that, always will be.

However, if you really, really, really wanna rule out the possibility of being prevented from making money off your ReMix... don't submit it. We make music freely available. This is directly contrary to any intention to one day charge for it...

Clearly an adhesion contract. You can't write "all rights remain to the original artist" and in the same time you prevent us musicians to do with the track what we want to at a later page. From releasing it commercially, to performing it live (Shael Riley for example), to use it in a video or whatever comes to mind at that point.

If you'd hold the rights to all the tunes that were remixed, and would present them as the label who holds those rights in the first place, I'd understand that. BUT... your page is presenting fanmaterial that is, blatantly said, illegaly distributed. It is accepted because it's a "fanproduction" (like fanart), but if we're looking at it as if it's all "legal and stuff", you clearly pull off an illegal thing, try make it look like legal, and steal yourself out of the responsibility, should something ever happen like a lawsuit for example.

This is not okay - and I highly object as remixer and longtime member of OC Remix, like it was asked to do so by you in the first place (via eMail).

That's partly why we're formalizing this policy. Even so, policing the entire Internet looking for artists being miscredited or ripped off is not within our power; if you want to spend the rest of your natural life tracking down such injustices, we're not stopping you.

Then this whole draft is useless, as you try to enforce our rights, yet you say "it's not within our power". I'm sorry, but why even try to pull off these rules then?

OC ReMix can deny that third parties continue to use mixes accredited to OC ReMix; if the submitting artist wishes that they continue using their work, they can personally allow the music to continue to be used, so long as references to OC ReMix are removed. I honestly don't see this coming up too often, but the musician has the last word.

If they ask the mixer directly, why even bother? Only if somebody is pointing fingers and is like "this and that dude used a mix from OCR", will you go off and say "did he use that with permission from us? No, he's not allowed to do so."

IMO a totally useless point in your draft that looks to me like just another add-on to look good in the end.

That's fair enough, and it's your call. Most seem okay with it, and most of the policy itself was already in effect, just not written down anywhere. You haven't raised any specific points that I would see as resulting in modifications to the document; you seem generally opposed to the notion of having any such policy whatsoever. We've already decided that a policy is needed, so the discussion of whether or not to have one isn't relevant.

Wait wait wait wait... Is it not my right to comment on it? Do we start this kind of crap again as it happened with the sitedesign (and the resulting random bans)? Then why was I informed to participate in the discussion if comments and objections are, I wouldn't say not being allowed, but being ignored right from the start?

What's the use in this thread then anyway?

I think there's some minor misinterpretation, and I think your concerns about being able to sell your mixes after the fact are misguided. This site's about free music, always has been, and always will be.

Excuse me but this is your interpretation. I just wrote about "selling mixing" because it's a thing to discuss, same as with performing music live. It's a possibility that can occour and I commented on that.

To me your whole draft sounds like a box filled with hot steam, but nothing else in it. The set up rules are either ridiculus and/or cut off the rights of the participating artist, even if stated in the first post that this won't be the case. It's as with disclaimers warez and ROM pages "you can test that stuff for 24hours, then you have to delete it", or even better "if you have the original cart, you're allowed to have the ROM" - but it is still illegal. You just want to be on the save side somehow.

Seriously now, if you really insist on those rules...

...then I highly advice that nobody should ever submit any remixes to OCR anymore!

*the very same as you told me earlier too, btw. this really reminds me of Cafepress, only a bit more sweetened up*

OverClocked ReMix Content Policy - Final Enacted 6/12/2007

in Site Issues & Feedback

Posted May 17, 2007

I guess as longtime mixer/engineer who's hanging out in several communities, I have to comment on some stuff for sure. Don't get me wrong, but some stuff is negating each other and this definitely reminds me of Cafepress where they cut off the total rights of the original artist and sold the stuff as "their work".

While this might clear some things, this whole text does indeed sound like a "big label", not a friendly community anymore as it used to be. Of course you can complain about it, but well... we mixers were asked to comment (and in a pretty short time too if I may add), and I take my right to do so.

[*]OverClocked ReMix has the sole ability to distribute music under its name, as designated by "OC ReMix" in track titles, the "OC_ReMix" file suffix, or other indicators clearly establishing attribution of works to OverClocked ReMix.

This is bugging me a bit. Okay it clearly states where a remix is coming from (example: Sharing communities), but this sounds to me like that this track is "only" available on OC Remix. But what about if the mixer submitted it to a different page at the same time, or earlier, or after it was submitted on OCR but cleaned up a tad?

[*]OverClocked ReMix reserves the right to redistribute submitted works through outlets other than http://www.ocremix.org, including but not limited to streaming radio stations, physical media, and mirror sites.

I personally do not accept that to be honest. Mirrors are okay to help keep the bandwidth low, but I have something against it giving my mix away - for example to people like Last-FM (which is bugging me anyway, why am I listed there anyway?) or other community pages who "port" the material from example from OC Remix and redistribute them. (worst case scenario - doesn't mean that it's happening right now, but what if they'll do in the future?)

As mixer I'd loose control over my track, and I'd loose track over the comments from my songs. While putting this into one place, everything's collected.

[*]Once a work is submitted and accepted, OverClocked ReMix reserves the right to reject removal requests on the part of the submitting artist.

I object to that, due to several reasons:

1) What if I want to withdraw that track, remix it (as in form of in-depth mixing, mastering, maybe even enhnancing it), and then sell it on a CD compilation that's also paying royalty fees to the firms who whold the copyrights?

If the stuff is still on a remixing community page, the firms would be screwed, so are those who paid for the CD or the file distribution (internet download), not to mention the artist who shelled out the money for the distribution, and the fees involved to be allowed to do so.

2) What if the artist wants to move away from OCR, like happened with Mustin, Virt, etc and distribute that stuff somewhere else, or on the own page from the creators. Is that forbidden now as in "you submitted to OCR, this is OUR mix now and we can do whatever we want - even change the name"? Clearly, I won't accept that as creative participant who's helping you, the president of OCR, to keep the page interesting and running.

[*]OverClocked ReMix reserves the right to remove submitted and accepted works at any time, for reasons including but not limited to violation of submission standards and DMCA violations.

This is what was bugging me back in the day a couple of times with the "lockdowns". Some opinions were obviously biased, some mixers weren't informed and the "delete" button was faster pressed than you could say "supercalifragilisticexpialidocious". The only comments from sides of those who deleted that material were "this was a violation, and he/she was long enough on OCR anyway".

This is what's bugging me a bit. First of all you say "if you come to us, we will present your skill" as in terms of "we're a professional distributing platform", and then later you say "this is just a drumloop with a melody in it - violation of our standards, delete - sorry buddy". It's as if you'd wipe out the history of this page, and kick those in the face who helped you become big.

Personally I think the invoved artist should have all rights to say "I accept your decision" or "I won't accept that, that track stays on OCR" rather than a supreme court who's like "our standards changed, we now erase all tracks that don't fit them anymore", as it happened twice already. At the moment it sounds a bit like "you're allowed to help us, pimp us out, remix, participate, help us grow" but as soon as the stuff is submitted, you'll loose all rights on your material.

In terms of "standards", I have a lot more to say, but you know how I think about it - and some stuff is really ridiculus, but this is not the point here.

[*]OverClocked ReMixes may not be redistributed for profit, or used in the context of commercial works, except by the original copyright owners of the arranged material(s).

This conflicts with the point of "reserves the right to reject removal requests". As stated a bit further up, if the artist wants to sell his remix in some sort of compilation or even an official CD, the upper point states "you can't do that", and this point states "as long as it's the official remixer, it's allowed".

Two edged sword. Especially if the remixer is a member of the RIAA or German GEMA. Because those people are usually NOT allowed to submit anything for free - every track has to be cleared to collect royalty fees, etc. Overall OCR is a greyzone anyway, as all remixes submitted are NOT cleared with the copyright holders, and that'd be the original musicians, or the firms who still distribute the videogames.

[*]OverClocked ReMixes may be used in any non-profit works without requesting explicit permission from OverClocked ReMix or the submitting artist, so long as credit is given.

Somebody tell that G4-TV, Gametrailers.com, random TV stations, etc (who're financed by fees to use the page, or PayTV fees). They used tracks from OCR/VGMix/KWED already and never gave credit, not even on their page. Maybe it's because they think "this remixing scene is a greyzone anyway, so it's okay that we go into the greyzone too"

[*]If OverClocked ReMixes are being made publically available in redistributable form as audio files, they may not be modified in any way from the MP3 versions made available on http://www.ocremix.org . This includes but is not limited to any modifications to ID3 tagging. Modifications for personal use, such as burning mix CDs or reformatting for other devices, is acceptable.

Okay I had to read this a couple of times to fully understand it. Else I would have asked "but what about if that mix is also submitted to VGMix/ThaSauce/KWED?". But we're talking about "made available on", and in this case, if the track is loaded from OCR, it's an "OC Remix".

[*]OverClocked ReMix reserves the right to deny continued usage of OverClocked ReMixes in any works.

And this page will terminate in 5 seconds... *cough*

Once again, tell that the Game TV stations, or those who illegally sell OC Remix compilation packs. That's a two edged sword again. First you say "you have permission if credited", and then you're "if you use OCRemixes over and over, we deny that we gave permission/that this track is coming from us" or even "we deny the permission to use the files". In ths case, I think the involved musician should have the last word.

It's funny how a page covering a "grey zone" is acting as a major label now - complete with adhesion contract, and with the same breath denies all actions involved if a lawsuit shall clash down. Makes me really think whether or not I should submit a remix to OCR or not from now on. Sorry to say that, but you wanted an honest opinion, so... here it is.

CMC - Conceptual Music Competition 8: Uncharted Waters (RESULTS!!!)

in Competitions

Posted May 15, 2007

Can you maybe get in touch with the ThaSauce folk in therms of compo's? Their new system is great for tracking what's up. Maybe I participate this time (though I'm stuffed with client work, want to finish my new song and have a lot of private stuff to do), but I don't want to loose track of when stuff needs to be done or where to send in, etc.

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