Legion Kreinak
-
Posts
100 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Articles
Profiles
Forums
Events
Posts posted by Legion Kreinak
-
-
Since you're using FL studio, I would recommend getting around to looking at dragor's tutorials if you get a chance. They're not a one-stop solution, but they've got some neat ideas regarding "fullness" as he calls it, and it sounds like it might address your questions.
keep in mind that songs aren't usually ALWAYS full--there's gotta be some variation, for instance one section of the song might have the bass drop out, or maybe suddenly everything goes away except for a low pad. This is how you achieve variation...
There's also a writing lurking around somewhere about the "four-man combo" approach (it is four, isn't it? correct me if im wrong guys) but I can't find it at the moment. essentially, you can separate your instrumentation into drummer, bassist, lead, harmony...you get the idea.
as for remixes, most of the remixes on this site use vastly differing instrumentation than the original (though some use sampled sound FX). That's why we have Castlevania done in rock guitar, as opposed to Castlevania done in bleepy square waves.
...right now you still need to get much much more familiar with the program and the tools, it seems like. then you can worry about the more advanced stuff.
as for the production aspect, start listening to really good songs, particularly songs of the genre you want to produce (i'm guessing some kind of electronic music based on what you've said already). analyze the song--what's going on in each section of the song? what's the overall structure? how are chord progressions, layered sounds, call-and-response melodies, etc etc etc used?
also, if you haven't already read Zircon's remixing tips (found in the "guides and tutorials" section here) i would strongly recommend it.
Dragor's tutorials are causing errors in FL. It says it can't find the Delay Bank, Reverb...something, and a bunch of other things when I try to open it. What gives?
-
Absynth has a forte in screwed-up sounds, long, ambient soundscapes and just wild, unrecognizable effects. It's got some stuff in there that can score an entire J-horror movie just by holding a single key. But, eventually, it's all variations on the old "hey, let's scare people by playing high, jarred notes on a violin" in- but because synths don't care about physical limitations (ow my arm gets tired), you can draw out its duration and let it spend its jolly time on a crescendo. It can do "regular" sounds too, but most owners would ask you why you wanted to do that - you have "regular" synths for that
.Anyway, modern game soundtracks are tougher; mostly because there's a lot more storage room for the music. This means that the recognizability of the theme isn't there so much (unless it's a movie adaptation which usually has a number of distinct themes and melody "hooks"). Second point is of course that the music is no longer bound to a particular soundchip.
On older consoles, you had to do everything with the limited number of voices or sample storage, and there aren't any tools like effects (reverb; chorus can be faked) or dynamic treatment (compressors). That, plus the limited memory means that music had to get to the point pretty fast (no elaborate introductions), but also not bore you to tears when playing it for a long time.
As for your sound palette:
- one plugin/module/keyboard for realistic sounds. It's called the "bread & butter" - basically you have a reasonably big library with pianos, strings, brass, etc.
- one plugin/module/keyboard for non-realistic sounds. This can be done by Absynth - but a lot more options are available.
- one sampler (or any plugin/module/keyboard specifically geared towards playing back your own recorded sounds or samples). The difference with the first one is pretty much nothing anymore nowadays; it's just that samplers usually didn't have libraries included (except for some factory sounds) while the first is switch-on-load-up-go. This sampler will handle the percussion and effects sounds.
That's it, basically. The reason people have more of 'm? Very simple; you can split up the bread & butter in various libraries. Something like this here: http://www.luxonix.com/home/en/products.html?id=ravityS - that's all thrown in one.
To split this up, you'd buy:
http://www.ilio.com/vienna/index.html - for all the orchestral sounds, http://www.native-instruments.com/index.php?id=akoustikpiano_us for the piano, B4 for the organ (since this is modeled it won't slurp up absurd amounts of room). It just depends on it how crazy you want to make things; splitting up is converting cash to added realism.
Don't underestimate the bread & butter; it's very useful. It's also something Absynth generally won't do for you (exception: some programmer with wayyy too much time could make a beautiful-sounding violin on it; just don't ask for other instruments).
Then there's the problem of stalwart genres. Older sound chips just sounded like nothing else at the time; a modern soundtrack sounds like everything else, because a composer has everything at his disposal. So, per scene or level or whatever part of the game, you get a soundtrack that fits best; it discerns itself more by the instruments used than by the pace and melody. As a composer, you want to convey atmosphere; as a remixer, you want to take a look at the piece of music on its own and change the atmosphere to your own liking; since it's no longer attached to a certain phase of the game.
Or you just want to replace the arrangement with more realistic instruments. Rob Hubbard (Commodore 64 composer and pretty much god, along with a few others) once said about a certain remix that it sounded exactly as he imagined it should, if he didn't have the limitations of the SID-chip. On the other hand; if he didn't have it, the tune wouldn't have sounded like that at all.
Wow, tons of info there. And that Vienna orchestral package is INSANELY expensive.
This actually reminds me of another question I had. Although it's not cut and dry, when making songs (not remixes, really), there's almost always some stuff in every song that fills out the soundscape. I've noticed you tend to have:
Hats, Snares, Basses
Ambient sound effects (cloudy/airy for happy trance, darker/eerie for dark trance)
Pads created in synths (the melody of the song, kind've)
I notice I don't fill out the scape enough on my songs, they sound like you can escape - from what I understand, you want a person to be totally enveloped in the song. No matter where they turn, it's like...a sound is there. The highs, lows, and all in the middle.
What I wanted to ask was pretty basic - what else is used to fill out the sound? I mean, I know you can layer multiple drums and the like, but are the things I mentioned above generally what songs will consist of?
-
For SNES sounds, it's simple; the sound is just a lower quality sample of what you're supposed to hear.
For the NES and Megadrive, you have to imagine what the sound's supposed to represent. All composers draw on their knowledge of real instruments and have to deal with the unrealistic or completely different sounding version on the console. Worse, their entire array of tricks doesn't work.
On most NES games, this is hard; squarewaves are the easiest to do, but the result is that every instrument in the track sounds similar. Still, it leaves you with discernable portions of the bass, the padding and the lead. Replace it with something similar that fills this role until it clicks - sometimes it's indeed just that.
Then what about the music from newer consoles? I recall someone mentioning to me that more modern video game music used programs like Absynth (among others), which is why I went to check it out in the first place. I guess the sounds I want will be in there some where.
-
Answer to the second question: there are many ways to do it, and it varies a lot from person to person. How much money are you willing to spend?
If you want to do it for free, there are free programs (modplug, noteworthy composer, synthfont, audacity, and others) and free samples (www.hammersound.net) that will help.
If you want to do it for cheap (relatively speaking), FLStudio seems to be a good place to start. I've never used it, but it's popular and I've heard some top-notch remixes done with it.
In the higher range are programs like Sonar, Cubase, Reason, etc.
As for hardware, it really depends a lot on how you're going to go about remixing, and it varies a ton from person to person. Some (but not all) find it easier to use a midi controller. Some (though not many) use full-blown keyboard workstations. Some do it entirely by mouse.
And then if you want to record live, that adds another set of expenses (mics, mixers, etc).
Whatever your methods, it would probably be a good idea to invest in a decent soundcard. I've used an E-mu 1212M and a Creamware Scope Home card, both of which sound excellent but are a bit complicated and will probably scare the crap out of you if you're just starting. There are probably other people who could do a better job of giving reccomendations here.
It would also be a good idea to get a decent set of headphones. Eventually, if you can afford them, good monitors would also be a worthy investment; however, good monitors are quite expensive, and generally require other gear (mixer and/or poweramp) as well.
It was the second question. How is it executed?
Not sure how much I'm willing to spend. Enough for FL and a MIDI controller, at least.
I have no interest in anything live, so that saves me cost there.
I don't need headphones, do I? What's the purpose other than not to disturb others? That's not an issue here.
So if people just listen to the song, then emulate what they hear and tweak it, how is it you get the right sounds to match what's heard in a lot of VG music? Is it just trial and error? Searching endlessly through packs of presets and sound effects until you get something good?
Or is it more a matter of making the melody or beat the same, albeit with a slightly different instrument/effect?
-
If this were a buddhist monastery I'd slap you and tell you to go sweep the temple courtyard. Twice. With a toothbrush. For asking the stupid, wrong question that keeps you away from nirvana.
Start with the really simple stuff.
Use a keyboard with a piano sound. I don't care if it's a cheap Casio or an awesome graded hammer-action board. Just get that in front of you.
Then, listen to the melody of the original song.
Then play it. Repeat it. Try different styles; put a different emphasis on the notes. Add some swing. Substitute chords. Transpose. Play faster, slower, try to cram it in 3/4ths. Improvise over it. Add a counterpoint.
Eventually you'll find something that sticks and sounds different. You're halfway done; after this, you'll get out of the rest of the instruments, and fill in stuff.
Tough love; thanks.
I can't play the piano, so trying to play the melody on the keyboard wouldn't be the easiest thing for me.
And yes, I still need to buy a MIDI controller.
-
Alright, I'm still venturing into the world of music creation. As of now, I've used FL Studio only. I made a few songs, but I'm still an amateur. I'm learning about using synths and everything still.
What I don't understand is - how do you guys remix video game music? I mean, what programs are used? How do you get the song laid out in a program, then tweak and add to it? I never thought to ask this, but when I think about it now, it baffles me.
What programs are typically used for remixing video game music? I'd like to start toying with remixing as well as creating stuff from scratch.
-
I got it to work. It's awesome. I'm still learning about all this stuff, but Absynth just seems awesome. So much in the sound bank too.
Does anyone else use Absynth?
Do you guys know if you buy it, do you get to upgrade for the rest of the days you own it? Same as FL, they let you download the updates, rather than buy a new version repeatedly?
I want to buy it, but I don't want to have to buy a new version every few years.
-
I have a 30-day trial of Absynth, which someone recommended I pick up if I wanted to make more contemporary video game-esque music. I'm in love with the wide array of the sound bank, but I was wondering - does it work in conjunction with FL? I'm able to play around with the sounds in Absynth, but how do I actually take the sounds and record them now? Or put them into channels or patterns to make a song, as in FL?
I was under the impression Absynth was a pack of sounds that added onto FL, Cubase or Reason. I feel I'm wrong now.
-
I'll start downloading the torrents (however many there are), then seed them. I feel I should give back to all of you guys here, since it's such a great place.
-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FldPlylnjiY&mode=related&search=
It's a promo commercial for The Boondocks on Adult Swim. It's from awhile back, but no one can find the damn song. They all say it's Guillotine, from Wu-Tang, but it's not. In the show they used that, but on this promo they had this song, which sounds pretty awesome.
Can anyone either A) help me identify the song or
rip the audio off there with good quality? I can't even download the little clip, so I dunno what else I can do, but I've love to just loop that little theme, cutting out the guy's voice if possible. -
How would you guys recommend I fill out the soundscape? I can't find anything else to fit in well to the little sequence I have running along with the bass. They kind've overpower anything else I put in, and I can't think of what else to do.
Do I try to have another sound effect carry the song with those, or do I add in stuff that comes in every, say, 8th beat or such?
-
I love SD3. I love the music as well. This song, in particular, is one of my favorites. The remix sounds great. I can't give any real critiques like the others here who actually make music, but as a listener, I have to say it's great. Where can I download it to my PC?
Question (I don't mean to highjack) - what's reverb? I know what it's short for but...where do you fool around with it for songs? What does it do, essentially?
-
its pretty good quality, although im not that good at rating the quality of trance or instruments like that. its very repetive, it would be a pretty good loop, or more accurately a few good loops, but there is no substance to the song, it has no main goal, no developing creation at all. it doesnt work as a song in itself, but you could use it as a loop in a different song. good job for a first time though!
Well I actually had the idea of a longer progressing trance song in mind, which is why it starts to change, but I stopped it there. I planned for it to span 7-8 minutes or so.
-
The progession of the song is good, you definitely have some talents in trance composition. You should work more on filling out the soundscape thoug, right now its still very empty. Make some more pronounced drum loops, and some stronger synths. Good start though : )
Whoo! Alright, cool, that's motivating. Yeah, I figured it lacks a bit of depth. I need more sounds thrown in there just to make it sound richer. At least, that's what I think you mean.
-
No replies? Wow, I make the thread and within ten minutes I get two answers. Then over a day goes by and I get nothing.
I guess it's crap? Hah
-
Where can I learn how to do sequencing and beat slicing? I got that huge tutorial archive from Zircon on Synthing, so I'm working on learning that. Does any such thing exist for the other stuff?
Also, I'm learning to play guitar now. Progressing along pretty nicely. Piano was the next thing I wanted to learn. That, or drums.
-
Oh, okay cool. Well, I have to run to work shortly, so I'll post up this one (1m30s so far) and see what feedback I get. Don't slaughter me.
-
Gotcha Yoozer, so it's not what you use that's important, it's what you can make it do.
Of course, certain programs do offer more options and allow for more depth and variety, right? So that could help one improve their works.
Is FL missing anything big that Cubase or other programs have?
-
I'm new to creating my own music, so I wanted to know if I could post up some little samples I have on here. I use FL5.0 for my production, and I have yet to buy a MIDI controller. Basically, I'm definitely going to be lacking somewhere, be it depth of the music, variation, or what have you.
Hopefully I can post some .mp3 files on a free file host (if this is allowed), and you guys can help me figure out what my songs are missing, or give me any advice to make my music more professional.
Oh, I am for a type of darker goa trance. Think Dark Soho, Infected Mushroom, DJ Demonshaker, etc.
So, give me the okay and I'll post some up.
-
Yes, VSTs are compatible in FL. There are only a handful of plugins that DON'T work in FL, in my experience. The only reason it's not on lists of "officially supported hosts" or whatever is because FL itself is viewed as an amateur tool, or even a toy, rather than a serious program.
BTW I wouldn't buy a library like that. Build the beats yourself, rather than from construction kits, which almost never sound as good. Get Smoker's Delight from eLab first, or maybe even Smoker's Relight if you can afford it. Then just learn simple synth programming since rap beats never really use complex sounds anyway (eg. FM, RM, physical modeling).
What's Smoker's Delight or Relight?
Where do I learn simple synth programming? I know you have your tutorials - is that all I need to know?
What's FM, RM and physical modeling? What do those mean? How do you identify them?
EDIT: Okay, I found out what Delight and Relight are. $100 and $200, respectively, the latter having 7 GB of content, so much more worth it. To throw another question out - if FL is seen as a toy, what's something considered more professional?
Not to seem like some generic hip-hop head, but one of the best beat producers I know out there is Dr. Dre, and now Eminem since he's been producing as well. Now, I love their instrumentals to songs, so I'm basically looking to emulate that as best I can. Anyone have any idea or clue as to what they might use? Chances are, it's probably way beyond my budget, since they're part of a huge label with millions of dollars, but I want my stuff to sound fairly decent.
-
http://www.bigfishaudio.com/4DCGI/detail.html?1330
Well, I found that. $120 isn't too bad. I mean, it's not cheap, but 2.2 GB of beats and such? That should be plenty. I hope so, anyway. Any of the hip hop packs to recommend in particular from ueberschall?
Oh damn, but the one I linked to doesn't work with FruityLoops.
The compatibility list is:AU
Cubase
Digital Performer
GarageBand
Logic
Mac
Nuendo
PC
ProTools
RTAS
VSTi
Or wait, is VSTi FL compatible then?
-
Anyone know any good packs that would be good for making rap beats? You know, a lot of good basslines and other types of sounds heard in raps?
-
Whether you use the step sequencer or record live depends on how good you are as a pianist and what style of music you're making. If you can do a pretty good live take and do a bit of overdubbing or editing to clean it up, you might as well do live. If you're doing something like jazz or classical, especially jazz because of swung rhythms, you're better off using a MIDI controller. If you're doing styles like techno and electronic, such as Zircon does, where there's not as many notes to input and things like automation and production are more prominent, it's probably faster to use the piano roll than to constantly move your hands from computer keyboard to MIDI controller.
What's automation?
-
How else do you use a MIDI controller?
Yes, the entire song is better left off to live recording of EVERYTHING. You can do about 30 decent live takes or 1 mouse-clicked sequence, in the same amount of time. The live takes are already realistic too [don't need to "humanize" anything]. Quantizing takes no time at all, use it at your discretion.
I figured you'd use it with the step sequencer, just because it's more hands-on and precise than using the mouse or keyboard. And it's just easier.
I feel like I'd be off with live takes. Maybe I just need to be a piano player to feel comfortable. Do you know what notes you want to use before you play, or do you just kinda do stuff on the fly?
Quantizing? What's that?
Night of The Halo by LxK
in Post Your Original Music!
Posted
Yeah, so, still learning basics of making music. No laughter allowed. Tell me if this is acceptable, what needs work, anything I'm doing wrong/right.
http://www.box.net/shared/e57odu9omj
Another random song I was trying to throw together:
http://www.box.net/shared/kfhgg1ay6x