Legion Kreinak

Uhh, wait a sec, I should've checked. The ES model is $200. The add-on knob and slider panel that hooks up to a keyboard is $200. That's $400. The Pro is $500. How is the pro a better deal?

Ah, didn't realize I could do that. Thanks. It's annoying when I right click and try to drag to make it drop off at the end of the beat - a huge bar just appears and covers like, everything. I hate shit like that.

I figured that'd be the answer. I was leaning that way anyway, 'cause as you guys said - you get what you pay for. I'm just trying to think of other reasons to use the knobs and sliders. Heck, what do I go to in FL to start customizing a MIDI controller anyway? I need to learn FL inside out first, I guess, 'cause there's a LOT I don't understand yet. And that monstrous 170 page thread scares me.

Where is this? I have an instrument on piano roll. I click the bar and it opens up the piano roll editting screen. I can't find where I can change where the volume drops in a song. I can change the overall volume of that channel, but I can't seem to make it start loud and trail off, so it doesn't abruptly end and sound idiotic.

Alright, the cheapest 88-key model out there is the Keystation ES I linked to. it's $200. All the other models are a good deal more expensive. Now, do you guys think I should: A) Just go with the Keystation ES, despite its lack of knobs and sliders Save up and get the Keystation Pro 88 (http://www.audiomidi.com/Keystation-Pro-88-P5167.aspx) which is riddled with knobs and sliders Unless anyone wants to recommend a different 88-key model that's fair priced which I'm not finding.

Any soundcard that needs a diagram like this thing below to show how awesome it is is most definitely crappy or has its marketing team on IV shrooms. Besides, it shows CD and MP3 audio - guess people don't play MIDIs anymore or equate their presence on a Geocities webpage with "crap" anyway, so they don't care for the sound . But seriously - no, I don't see any SoundCanvas thingies getting built in there. No benefits for existing users and it adds to the price without having any advantages. You're right in thinking that, but! 88-key controllers usually have piano-style keys - e.g solid ones, with weight, and sometimes something called "hammer action", and sometimes something called "graded hammer action". The weight means you'll need more strength to put the key down to the bottom (this differs per model). The hammer action means that when you do this, it "feels" more like playing a real piano because the hammer on a grand or upright gives a slight kickback to the key - when it hits the string. "Graded" means that higher keys are lighter and lower keys are heavier. All depends on the budget you're willing to spend on a controller, and if you personally even like the action on a piano. Some are heavy, some are light-weight; all a matter of preference. Velocity sensitivity is almost universal in keyboards, except maybe those with the mini-keys. When you press down the key it sends a MIDI NoteOn signal. When you release the key it sends a MIDI NoteOff signal. The "bar" you see in the piano roll is the time between those two signals. That's also why you sometimes see a PANIC button; if the NoteOff is never sent the synth just keeps playing, and PANIC forces a NoteOff to everything. Just make sure your first mix is not an mp3 of a recorded MIDI file with just a reverb effect thrown over it. Other than that, have a ball . Eh, that's just advertising. Every company does stupid shit like that. Give an X-fi a try, though, and you'll see. I'm not tech savvy enough to throw numbers and specs at you, but it's one of the top choices of gaming nerds and audiophiles (think www.overclock.net and forums like those), so I don't think that many people could be wrong. That product claims to do something which is, straight up, not possible. It fakes it with creative EQ and perhaps aural excitation, but the claims they are making about it are flat out not possible. I think it's safe to say that it's crap. Perhaps, from a listener/consumer standpoint, it's not all bad, but as a producer, it's completely useless, and introduces bias to how you monitor your mixes. You should never monitor your work on an "enhanced" system, you should monitor on as flat and transparent a system as possible. Why should it be done on a flat and transparent system? What does that even mean? You're a gymnastic coach, by the way, right?

Could you throw some examples at me as to the benefits of knobs and sliders? I mean, I know it gives you more options, but what kind've options, exactly? What can you program the knobs and sliders to do?

Any soundcard that needs a diagram like this thing below to show how awesome it is is most definitely crappy or has its marketing team on IV shrooms. Besides, it shows CD and MP3 audio - guess people don't play MIDIs anymore or equate their presence on a Geocities webpage with "crap" anyway, so they don't care for the sound . But seriously - no, I don't see any SoundCanvas thingies getting built in there. No benefits for existing users and it adds to the price without having any advantages. You're right in thinking that, but! 88-key controllers usually have piano-style keys - e.g solid ones, with weight, and sometimes something called "hammer action", and sometimes something called "graded hammer action". The weight means you'll need more strength to put the key down to the bottom (this differs per model). The hammer action means that when you do this, it "feels" more like playing a real piano because the hammer on a grand or upright gives a slight kickback to the key - when it hits the string. "Graded" means that higher keys are lighter and lower keys are heavier. All depends on the budget you're willing to spend on a controller, and if you personally even like the action on a piano. Some are heavy, some are light-weight; all a matter of preference. Velocity sensitivity is almost universal in keyboards, except maybe those with the mini-keys. When you press down the key it sends a MIDI NoteOn signal. When you release the key it sends a MIDI NoteOff signal. The "bar" you see in the piano roll is the time between those two signals. That's also why you sometimes see a PANIC button; if the NoteOff is never sent the synth just keeps playing, and PANIC forces a NoteOff to everything. Just make sure your first mix is not an mp3 of a recorded MIDI file with just a reverb effect thrown over it. Other than that, have a ball . Eh, that's just advertising. Every company does stupid shit like that. Give an X-fi a try, though, and you'll see. I'm not tech savvy enough to throw numbers and specs at you, but it's one of the top choices of gaming nerds and audiophiles (think www.overclock.net and forums like those), so I don't think that many people could be wrong. How does this MIDI controller look? http://www.audiomidi.com/Keystation-88es-P5790.aspx Overclock =/= audiophiles. True audiophiles are geezers probably as old as your father (I know my father's one, he worked in studio's since his college days, and he's over 50 now). I'm more than willing to bet this "X-fi" shit is just a little bit of creative EQing, which truth be told should NEVER be used by a producer. As far as MIDI controllers go, just go to a guitar center or Sam Ash or whatever music store you have near you, and try them all out. Its advisable to not look at price when shopping for audio gear becaus ein most cases you will get what you pay for. I've played with that particular MIDI controller and it seemed fine (I have a very similar one, the Oxygen 49, its basically the same but it has 49 keys and sliders and knobs for me to mess with) but I advise you try it out for yourself. But don't you need them hooked up to a PC to try them out? Or you just mean hit the keys and see how that feels? I definitely will stop at a store just to mess around, though. And I know you tend to get what you pay for. That's why I was asking - a lot of the 88-key models are over $300 on there, like ones that say "Pro Audio" or somesuch. I wanted to know what that model that I linked to was lacking, since it's only $200.

Cheaper? Did you check the link provided above? It's $165 or something. You can't go $15 over your budget? not my money im spending, its my grandmas. I'm aware of that, it's just...I dunno, put $20 of your own money towards it?

Any soundcard that needs a diagram like this thing below to show how awesome it is is most definitely crappy or has its marketing team on IV shrooms. Besides, it shows CD and MP3 audio - guess people don't play MIDIs anymore or equate their presence on a Geocities webpage with "crap" anyway, so they don't care for the sound . But seriously - no, I don't see any SoundCanvas thingies getting built in there. No benefits for existing users and it adds to the price without having any advantages. You're right in thinking that, but! 88-key controllers usually have piano-style keys - e.g solid ones, with weight, and sometimes something called "hammer action", and sometimes something called "graded hammer action". The weight means you'll need more strength to put the key down to the bottom (this differs per model). The hammer action means that when you do this, it "feels" more like playing a real piano because the hammer on a grand or upright gives a slight kickback to the key - when it hits the string. "Graded" means that higher keys are lighter and lower keys are heavier. All depends on the budget you're willing to spend on a controller, and if you personally even like the action on a piano. Some are heavy, some are light-weight; all a matter of preference. Velocity sensitivity is almost universal in keyboards, except maybe those with the mini-keys. When you press down the key it sends a MIDI NoteOn signal. When you release the key it sends a MIDI NoteOff signal. The "bar" you see in the piano roll is the time between those two signals. That's also why you sometimes see a PANIC button; if the NoteOff is never sent the synth just keeps playing, and PANIC forces a NoteOff to everything. Just make sure your first mix is not an mp3 of a recorded MIDI file with just a reverb effect thrown over it. Other than that, have a ball . Eh, that's just advertising. Every company does stupid shit like that. Give an X-fi a try, though, and you'll see. I'm not tech savvy enough to throw numbers and specs at you, but it's one of the top choices of gaming nerds and audiophiles (think www.overclock.net and forums like those), so I don't think that many people could be wrong. How does this MIDI controller look? http://www.audiomidi.com/Keystation-88es-P5790.aspx

Cheaper? Did you check the link provided above? It's $165 or something. You can't go $15 over your budget?

MIDI = Musical Instrument Digital Interface MIDI File = set of instructions General MIDI = standard set of 128 sounds. MIDI signals = you play a note on a controller, the controller tells the computer "boss, he just hit E#3", the computer tells the software synthesizer "go on, play an E#3". The software synthesizer tells the soundcard "I'm in ur buffer sending u bitz", and the soundcard poops out a voltage. This goes in your amplifier, through the speaker, and then reaches your ears. The part from "boss, he just hit E#3" is entirely thanks to the MIDI protocol. The fact that it goes to your soundcard's GM synthesizer (yes, it's actually a little synthesizer in there) or a software synthesizer with an incredible piano sound that'd make Shostakovich splurt his pants - well, the software doesn't care about that. MIDI's don't "sound". If you want to blame anything, blame your cheap soundcard and its implementation of the General MIDI (GM) standard. THAT is what makes "MIDI sounds like crap". Basically, the GM standard defines that there are 128 instruments. It's a list of presets. Preset 001 is always a piano. Preset 50 are strings, and Preset 128 should be some sound effect - don't know which and can't be assed to look it up. The GM standard says "well, the idea is that you get a rough outline of how something sounds, so you don't have to make a godawful expensive synthesizer, just make sure it sounds adequate, and follow the right numbers - e.g. so that a piano should resemble a piano etc., and you're good with us". The people who made your soundcard thought "hm, so they said 'resemble' - let's see how far we can stretch this and save money on precious processors and memory!" A MIDI file may contain notes - like a sheet of musical score. When you play the MIDI file, Windows instructs your soundcard to play the notes that are on the sheet and chooses a piano. MIDI does not care how something sounds. It only says "play a middle C" or something, and then your soundcard has to listen. MIDI is to Audio as a sheet with score is to tape. Tape tells you how it sounds when it was recorded, but not how you play it. MIDI tells you what you should play but does not care what you play it back on. If you let a 5-year old play the Moonlight Sonata on a completely out of tune piano, do you also blame Beethoven? Hey, X-Fis are NOT crappy. All good info in there, though. Thanks for clearing a lot of stuff up. I'm looking to get a MIDI controller soon. I think I want something with 88-keys, so I have all the octaves at my disposal. I know some allow you to use knobs or sliders to change the octaves for something with less keys (for example, 44 keys but can switch something so you go across the whole range anyway). Something like that. I would think a full 88-key model would be ideal if I wanted to be able to go through all octaves without having to switch in the middle. Am I right in thinkng that, or am I missing something? Also, I'd want something velocity sensitive, this way the sounds would change in volume depending on how hard I struck the keys. Is a weighted-action keyboard what I'd want, or do synth actions still have a velocity sensor with them? I noticed, when I send something to piano roll in FL, I can't get it to hold a note. Now, I'm guessing when I use a MIDI Controller, if I hold a key, it'll draw that note out for me, yes? Thanks for all the help so far, guys. It does NOT go unappreciated AT ALL. If I can ever help any of you in some way, just ask.

Well, that's good to know. Why are they called MIDIs though? Most MIDIs I've heard don't sound as good as MP3s, and the songs I put together (and others have put together) in FL sound like normal music. A lot of MIDI stuff (like what you download from www.vgmusic.com) sounds different, you know?

So basically, rather than selecting the varied pitches for an instrument on FruityLoops, with a MIDI controller, I can just play up and down the scale on the keys and hear what sounds best a lot quicker than clicking constantly, right? Well, can I also make it input that melody/beat I make on the piano in the song? Like when you select a pattern to play in FL, you normally click the little keys for each measure and fill in where you want the beat. Can I, instead of clicking with the mouse, strike a key as it passes that point and have it input that note automatically? Not sure if I'm getting my point across, although what I'm asking is pretty simple.

No?

I would love to hear this song remixed in some way. It's awesome as it is, and I could only imagine it'd be better in the hands of a talented remixer. I can mail the song or host it on a site if anyone needs to download it and is willing to give it a shot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAY7JLFW3mE This clip has a song in the background. I can't find what song it is, so I was wondering if anyone could either: A) Identify said song Separate the song from the dialogue for me The help would be appreciated.

So a MIDI controller is used in conjunction with something like FruityLoops? I'd like to see/feel how one works before I actually used it. What do you set the buttons to? Different instruments and stuff? Or do you still choose a lot of things with your mouse? Sorry, hard for me to imagine how it works, exactly. http://www.sweetwater.com/shop/keyboards/keyboard-controllers/buying-guide.php And the link that led to it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midi_controller Thanks for that. So, what's a keyboard control in Fruity? There's this song with the first pattern as KB Ctrl, and when you select to sample the pattern, you hear nothing, but it has all these notes selected in a piano roll. Then, the pattern below that is "Sym Syn" with the melody of the song looping in a piano roll.

So a MIDI controller is used in conjunction with something like FruityLoops? I'd like to see/feel how one works before I actually used it. What do you set the buttons to? Different instruments and stuff? Or do you still choose a lot of things with your mouse? Sorry, hard for me to imagine how it works, exactly.

Not in this modern age of the virtual studio. Lots of people only use the computer, and produce all sorts of stuff - from straight EDM through to classical symphony type stuff. Yes! Allow me to introduce you to the fantastic world of KVR. Fruity does come with some preety neat synths though, and it pays to learn how to use them. As a general rule of thumb, its better to know how to use a few synths really well, than to have 15,000 and only use the presets. This is called sampling. It may be illegal, depending on just where on the planet you live, but its also a time honored tradition in electronic styles of music. I'm no samplining guru, so I shan't talk about the hows and whys, as I would most probably be incorrect. The KVR site doesn't work, by the way.

I think bLiNd uses a Lexicon reverb, though I don't know how recently or if he still uses it. Not a synth, but it's hardware! Also, a lot of electronic artists will tell you hardware is just so much more fun to use! A lot of people still use tons of hardware, especially analog stuff, because they think that if they use analog synths their songs will somehow be "warmer" but that's ridiculous. Basically it comes down to what kind of control you want over your song. Some people could never give up their old analog mixing boards because a) they still sound great and they're much more responsive and user-friendly than clicking around in a virtual mixer, one knob at a time. There's also the added advantage of having more computer resources available, since all the sounds are being processed outside of the PC. The downside to having a large studio is that, well, it's large. I actually prefer having everything inside a single box, which is totally possible given the power of today's computer. The only thing I would recommend is to forget your mouse and get a midi controller. You'll save so much time otherwise wasted by clicking around for everything. MIDI Controller? What's that? Any recommendations on a specific product?

Don't most techno artists use hardware (outside of a home PC) to make their music? I always had the impression they had studios, with keyboards and all sorts of equipment. Can I download "add-on" synths or sound packs? Is there any way to break down a song and use the sounds from them to use them in new songs?

Well, I'll just say Buttrock Goa then - 'cause that's my favorite. Dark Soho is my favorite artist, in the whole electronic music genre. So can FL make tracks like those entirely, or do I need more than that? I know there's the tutorial on what you need but...I'd like to know which types of equipment I'd need specifically for making this type of music. By the by, if anyone wants, I'll host some stuff up on a site so you can sample what I'm talking about. Might allow you to help me better.

Hrm, good food for thought there. I love Ishkur's site, I was trying to remembr what it was. The techno I want to make, in particular is Buttrock Goa. Ahh, look under Trance, then buttrock goa on that site. Check number 3. It's my buddy Dark Soho. That's the stuff I was thinking of when I got into this, and there it is now. Can FL5 make stuff like that alone, or am I going to need more equipment and software? I have no keyboard or anything, and I dunno if that's necessary or what. People seem to make pretty good stuff with FL alone, but maybe I'm just naive. Thanks for the help so far.

I'm new to this whole remixing and music making business, and to this forum. I've been a fan of techno/trance/goa stuff for awhile now, as well as video game music. I'm here to ask something more or less basic, but I didn't see it answered anywhere (like Zircon's tips sticky): When I start to make a song, I tend to get along fine for the first 30 seconds or so. The problem comes at this point - I have trouble deciding when to add in more instruments, when (if ever) to switch the bassline, what stuff should be changed and the like. I don't know the technical/musical terms, but bridges (carrying from one part of a song to another) seem apparent in techno, despite the lack of vocals. I basically am looking for some helpful tips in the construction of a song. Do you keep the same general melody/bass driving the song the entire way, then throw in other instruments? When do you cut certain stuff out, and how do you do it without it sounding like two seperate songs? There are a lot of samples I've heard. I use FruityLoops. Lots of good stuff there. The thing is, whatever I try and decipher from other songs doesn't carry over so well. Help is appreciated.