ke200 Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 Hi there, I've been working on this remix for a week or so now, and I think it's coming along nicely, however I'm not sure if I should post it here as the quality of other people's tracks seems so high. This is a large leap in quality compared to my old stuff, though. Anyway, first the original track: And my remixed version (FINISHED VERSION ABOVE IN POST #12) http://rapidshare.com/files/198569038/SAMPLE-03.mp3 or http://www.mediafire.com/?kjxgm0m2wbz If you don't think it's good enough to be on here just say so - that's fair enough, I'll just post it on Newgrounds and leave it at that. But can anyone give me some pointers on improvement before I finish it? Also, the final track will be 3:00 - 3:30 long. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ke200 Posted February 15, 2009 Author Share Posted February 15, 2009 I hate to bump my own thread, but can anyone give me some feedback before I finish? :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hewhoisiam Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Okay, first things first. 1) You're drums are really confused here. If it's a rock song, you've got like balled light drums going on. They're not really written 'rock' style. You've got that prominent up beat feel; at the least rock is accented on the beats. Faster rock may only play quarters, but pretty much on the beat. Your bass drum has no power to it. Give it some EQ at least, and I'd consider changing many of the samples, snare and bass drums stick out in my mind, and that's the heart of the kit. The toms are also very muddy, pick some toms with a more clear tone if you're going to play a long time over them. (this could be my bias toward liking that big kit sound, think dream theater) 2) The length makes this less of an issue now, but I image when you finish this I'll be bored with it before it's over. The synth that you've got playing the melody at the beginning plays basically the entire length of the song. Now, progression isn't really one of my strong suits but I'd say you're gonna need more than a few breaks to really fill in the sound. Taking that synth in and out will help too. 3) The whole thing has a sort of empty feeling to it. At times there's just the bass and the drums playing. It's not enough meat for me. If you want to do something like that, look at who's done it successfully, like the Metallica guitar solos or something. But it'll take a lot of work to make something simple like that really shine. 4) The synth at the beginning or the guitar needs to be the leader, and the volumes adjusted so that one is more clearley in the background. As it is now, they're fighting for space. Some EQ work may help this, but that's not really my area either, sorry. 5) Your bass doesn't work for me. It's just not doing what a bass should in rock. It's being used almost like another guitar. Add a second guitar part and put the bass down to bass stuff. Along those lines, move lots of the offbeat stuff to the second guitar part, and give the bass some low end. These are my thoughts running through it, hope this helps. -H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ke200 Posted February 16, 2009 Author Share Posted February 16, 2009 Any suggested VSTs for the drums? That's the heaviest set I could find on Sampletank :/ I'll try recording a second guitar, but I'm a poor player and VSTs don't do the guitar justice. I'll fix the dynamics so one part is more prominent. I was thinking the drums got a bit too hectic at times, so I was planning on toning them down, but in all honesty I thought they sounded fine. Still, I'll gladly change them if someone can point out a heavier VST. Thanks for the feedback! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skummel Maske Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 I'm listening to this from my laptop speakers, so I can't say anything about sound quality really. I like the drum programming though. I think the arrangement was alright as well, except for the synth that returns at about 1:20. It's too prominent. I think it could be an idea to tone it down there, and pull out a guitar lead to carry that section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hewhoisiam Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 As far as the drums go, add some EQ and maybe reverb to it. You can keep those samples if you like them. The EQ will help to pull apart the tom part so that it's not as muddy. Then put more of an emphasis on the down beat. If the set still doesn't sound like you want it to, add another drum sample and layer your sounds by playing 2 samples at the same time. The setup I'm using now has 2 snares and 2 basses hitting at the same time for each sound I want. A second guitar part doesn't have to be very complicated, It's mostly there to fill in the sound and take some of the heat off the bass, which is too hectic for the style right now in my opinion. The guitar part you've got now sounds great, it's just lonley, give it some company, have the second part help support it harmonically and play a more standard tune while what you've got solos. To clarify, the bass part that you've got now sounds hectic only some of the time. When it's just the bass and drums the fast is okay. But during the solos with the guitar, I'm thinking it should have more of a background role. That's really where I can see the second part helping out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ke200 Posted February 16, 2009 Author Share Posted February 16, 2009 As far as the drums go, add some EQ and maybe reverb to it. You can keep those samples if you like them. The EQ will help to pull apart the tom part so that it's not as muddy. Then put more of an emphasis on the down beat. If the set still doesn't sound like you want it to, add another drum sample and layer your sounds by playing 2 samples at the same time. The setup I'm using now has 2 snares and 2 basses hitting at the same time for each sound I want.A second guitar part doesn't have to be very complicated, It's mostly there to fill in the sound and take some of the heat off the bass, which is too hectic for the style right now in my opinion. The guitar part you've got now sounds great, it's just lonley, give it some company, have the second part help support it harmonically and play a more standard tune while what you've got solos. To clarify, the bass part that you've got now sounds hectic only some of the time. When it's just the bass and drums the fast is okay. But during the solos with the guitar, I'm thinking it should have more of a background role. That's really where I can see the second part helping out. Ooooh, Ok, I thought I would have to remove the entire Bass part. I see where you're coming from now - I'll put some of the faster parts onto another guitar and leave the bass more basic in those areas. I was thinking of harmonizing two guitars towards the end, also. I have a couple of great samples for the drums, I just need to convert them over. Thanks a lot for your input - hopefully I can make the piece much better with it I'll update this thread with the new version once I get round to doing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ke200 Posted February 17, 2009 Author Share Posted February 17, 2009 Here's the version with some of the suggested changes: (EDIT): I've decided I like the other drums better with an added effect which makes them sound much cleaner. They're exactly the same drums but they sound cleaner. Alternative drums, though it's my fault, didn't work. The end result is below, but the bass drum is too loud (though easily solved) and the snare is too basic (not easily solved as I couldn't find a better one). I like the drums how they are now, though I'm still open to criticism. I've taken on board simplifying some sections and, thanks to hewhoisiam, the drums do sound much better regardless of new samples or not, so cheers (DECIDED NOT TO USE): http://rapidshare.com/files/198991963/SAMPLE-06.mp3 or http://www.mediafire.com/?iycmtizqhdn (USING): http://rapidshare.com/files/199008123/SAMPLE-07.mp3 or http://www.mediafire.com/?guk2kn4zgmn - Changed drums overall to have them more clear sounding with an effect (I forgot the name), while still keeping the original samples as alternative samples weren't as good (see sample 06). - The bass drum is heavier, thanks to an added effect, and now has a greater role. - Removed some excessive drum fills (notably at 1:06 and 1:47). Kept ones that fit the piece, (such as the one at 1:36) - Made lead guitar more audible throughout - it now takes centre over the original synth. - Right at the end has an experiment with two harmonized guitars (very early stage) - I intend to keep these at the same place and build upon it, but any feedback would be grateful. - Removed the synth at 1:20 and gradually brought it back in (thank you Skummel Maske - it worked a treat ) Nothing done to the bass yet, but I plan to. I plan to put something between the bass/drum gaps rather than omit them completely. Also, no new parts have been made yet, but again I plan to. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hewhoisiam Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Much better! Another note on the drums (math heavy bit here) There are places where the bass drum is playing 16ths fast and a few places in there where some triplets or double sounds could really help out. (that solo bit just after 1min comes to mind) If you're using a step sequencer (I do like 90% of my drum stuff in a SS) You can sequence in 12 beats per count and do some really cool things with it. 12 beats because it's the lowest common denominator of 4 and 6 for triplets and 16ths. Filling every note in 12 is kinda insane. But every other will get you 16th triplets, every 3rd, 16th notes, etc. So you can do neat things like 1 - - 4 - - 7 - 9 - 11 12 The intro cymbal stuff sounds pretty good, consider some of the love on the ride bell and crash cymbals instead of just the ride. It'll help with the feeling and dynamics and stuff. Quit, loud quiet. That poly is a real build, then go to a quieter cym or bell. Keep your poly rhythm on the ride, but move the other stuff around the kit a bit. Poly is that triplet feel over 16th notes, one of my favorite things to do on the kit, very progressive:-P I like the sound of your bass, but it's getting buried in this, it was kinda in the first one as well. I'm not sure how to really pull it out. I think it's too quiet for starters. I play with a shaper effect on most of the basses that I end up liking in mine, or maybe another sample, some EQ, not really sure. I like the unfinished ideas at the end, they'll be fun once they're all worked out. Good stuff! -H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ke200 Posted February 18, 2009 Author Share Posted February 18, 2009 Well, here's the finished version: http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/213960 I'm not going to tinker with it much more because I think I've done enough to it, so any criticism, but I won't be doing anything major to it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hewhoisiam Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 ERROR – No Audio Portal submission exists with ID "213954". It may have been deleted, or possibly never existed at all. Just following the link works, copy paste, but the hyperlink goes somewheres wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ke200 Posted February 18, 2009 Author Share Posted February 18, 2009 ERROR – No Audio Portal submission exists with ID "213954". It may have been deleted, or possibly never existed at all.Just following the link works, copy paste, but the hyperlink goes somewheres wrong. Whoops - I could've sword I updated it... anyway: http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/214112 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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