ke200 Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Ok, so I've been improving with the sound of my compositions overall, but I just can't seem to get orchestras sounding right. I KNOW it's possible to create a great sounding orchestra using nothing but VSTs, but every time I input a note it just seems to play it individually and sounds very artificial. I have Sampletank 2 which has some nice samples of an orchestra, and with some time I could get the composition and all the parts right, but without the instruments themselves sounding perfect, there's little point in going to the effort of composing a tune only to have it sound completely artificial. I may get a midi keyboard if that would help, as currently I plot each note individually (tedious, but it sounds accurate with other instruments). If that's the problem and playing each part on a keyboard would solve it then fine, I'll get that, but I'd rather have some professional advice. Can anyone offer me any advice at all, no matter how minor? It'd be a great help. Also, if there are any suggested VSTs that you have used to compose an orchestra in a sequencer, then don't hesitate to recommend them here. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutritious Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Personally, I use EWQLSO Silver Edition. Great sound out of the box at a reasonable price. There are other common options like Garritan Personal Orchestra that others here use. By the way, what sequencer are you using? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ke200 Posted February 24, 2009 Author Share Posted February 24, 2009 Cubase SX 3 - I've got some instructional videos on how to improve my skills with that program, but not with the VSTs themselves. Also, I've tried Garritan with little success (it often sounds too quiet) - I'm very new to it though. Any tips on making the orchestra sound great? Do you play them in or click them in? And does EWQLSO have the option to make several notes be played on a single stroke of a violin, for instance? Sorry for the torrent of questions, but I'd like to know exactly how I can get this sounding right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jago Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Personally, I play in all the instruments so that the overall orchestral mix doesn't sound too mechanical. Symphonic writing does take some work and an understanding of the idiosyncrasies of the instruments you're using. Also, this site is a good reference, but in case you haven't done this yet, I recommend listening to a lot of orchestral recordings of past and current composers. If you can get your hands on actual scores, that may also help. As for VSTs, I've used EWQLSO Silver and Gold, and Edirol Orchestral. I've used Complete Symphonic from SONiVOX as well, but that requires Gigastudio3 or Kontakt2. As for the violin, take a look into Synful Orchestra or Quantum Leap Gypsy which has a terrific classical violin, though the PLAY engine of the latter has been reported with problems in these forums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ke200 Posted February 24, 2009 Author Share Posted February 24, 2009 Thanks Jago! Have you got any tips on how to play in the violin using a midi keyboard? I've seen some demonstrations (on other programs, though) where the person uses the modulation wheel and sometimes the pitch wheel to make notes sound more realistically played, but have no idea how to do this myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hy Bound Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 I use EWQLSO Gold and other than the fact that it doesn't read my RAM properly and tends to glitch out a lot I would recommend it. Maybe it works better with Kontakt?????? As for making orchestra sound more expressive; automate, automate, automate. Sure, it can be incredibly time-consuming but it can make the shittiest of samples sound expressive and realistic. Automating the ADSR and overall volume is a must and lightly automating the dry/wet of the reverb really helps too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DZComposer Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 And does EWQLSO have the option to make several notes be played on a single stroke of a violin, for instance? What exactly do you mean by this? Multi-note polyphony? Or several, consecutive, notes on an up or down stroke (I think this is what you mean, but I want to be sure)? EWQL does support polyphony on all instruments (at least the ones I've loaded). I can only speak for the Gold Pro XP version, so I do not know what isn't in Silver or is in Platinum. In Gold ProXP there is no "up strokes" or "down strokes" instrument. There are QLEGATO instruments and Buttler Legato instruments. There is also a Run Simulator, which emulates the effect to some degree. There are also things like "Lyrical" and "Expressive" that incorporate dynamics as well. It's pretty much a play with the sounds and find the one you want to use. Remember: These are individual notes that were sampled, so you won't get a 100% realistic sound out of anything, not even something like VSL (though it gets damn-close). And you won't get the best sound with any library straight out of the box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ke200 Posted February 25, 2009 Author Share Posted February 25, 2009 What exactly do you mean by this? Multi-note polyphony? Or several, consecutive, notes on an up or down stroke (I think this is what you mean, but I want to be sure)?EWQL does support polyphony on all instruments (at least the ones I've loaded). I can only speak for the Gold Pro XP version, so I do not know what isn't in Silver or is in Platinum. In Gold ProXP there is no "up strokes" or "down strokes" instrument. There are QLEGATO instruments and Buttler Legato instruments. There is also a Run Simulator, which emulates the effect to some degree. There are also things like "Lyrical" and "Expressive" that incorporate dynamics as well. It's pretty much a play with the sounds and find the one you want to use. Remember: These are individual notes that were sampled, so you won't get a 100% realistic sound out of anything, not even something like VSL (though it gets damn-close). And you won't get the best sound with any library straight out of the box. Yeah that's what I meant - it plays them on a single stroke rather than going up and down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannthr Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Ke, this playing technique is called LEGATO. LEGATO means playing connected notes. This typically means single stroke or single string playing. DZComposer, wrong. There are up/down stroke patches in EWQL Gold XP: C VCS Quick Up Dn F VCS Mart Up DN F VCS Quick Up DN x6 F VCS Quick Up DN C VAS Shrt Mart Up Dn F VAS MArt Up Dn Marc F VAS Mart Up Dn F VAS Mart UD Marc S x6 F VAS Mart UD Marc S F VAS Shrt Mart Up Dn C 11V Quick Up Dn F 11V Mart Up Dn Marc F 11V Mart Up Dn Spic F 11V Mart Up Dn F 11V Quick Up Dn Marc x6 F 11V Quick Up Dn Marc F 11V Quick Up Dn Spic F 11V Quick Up Dn C 18V Quick Up Dn F 18V Mart Ud Marc Med F 18V Mart ud marc shrt F 18V Mart Up Dn F 18V Quick UD Marc S x6 F 18V Quick UD Marc S F 18V Quick UD Marc UD F 18V Quick Up Dn C CBS Quick UD mod Slap C CBS Quick Up Dn F CBS Mart Up Dn F CBS Quick UD Mod Slap F CBS Quick Up Dn x6 F CBS Quick Up Dn That's just ensemble patches, not even the solo patches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ke200 Posted February 26, 2009 Author Share Posted February 26, 2009 Ke, this playing technique is called LEGATO.LEGATO means playing connected notes. This typically means single stroke or single string playing. DZComposer, wrong. There are up/down stroke patches in EWQL Gold XP: C VCS Quick Up Dn F VCS Mart Up DN F VCS Quick Up DN x6 F VCS Quick Up DN C VAS Shrt Mart Up Dn F VAS MArt Up Dn Marc F VAS Mart Up Dn F VAS Mart UD Marc S x6 F VAS Mart UD Marc S F VAS Shrt Mart Up Dn C 11V Quick Up Dn F 11V Mart Up Dn Marc F 11V Mart Up Dn Spic F 11V Mart Up Dn F 11V Quick Up Dn Marc x6 F 11V Quick Up Dn Marc F 11V Quick Up Dn Spic F 11V Quick Up Dn C 18V Quick Up Dn F 18V Mart Ud Marc Med F 18V Mart ud marc shrt F 18V Mart Up Dn F 18V Quick UD Marc S x6 F 18V Quick UD Marc S F 18V Quick UD Marc UD F 18V Quick Up Dn C CBS Quick UD mod Slap C CBS Quick Up Dn F CBS Mart Up Dn F CBS Quick UD Mod Slap F CBS Quick Up Dn x6 F CBS Quick Up Dn That's just ensemble patches, not even the solo patches. Thanks - I should've known that, but I've forgotten most theory from my GCSE days. Yes, that's exactly what I'd need, but I only have silver and can't seem to find Gold anywhere, and I'm sure as hell not paying for Gold. Seems like I'm stuck for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DZComposer Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 I thought he meant sustained. Oops, my bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannthr Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 Gold XP is worth it, honestly. It will give you a lot to work with when you're just starting out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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