Warsong mix

[gwilendiel]

Pulled this out of my rear yesterday... mostly creative instrumentation. And I used sidechaining for once.

Not submission or WIP.

http://www.tindeck.com/listen/uhis

[Nabeel Ansari]

Pulled this out of my rear yesterday... mostly creative instrumentation. And I used sidechaining for once.

Not submission or WIP.

http://www.tindeck.com/listen/uhis

What's this a remix of?

It sounds pretty cool (but the electric guitars sound fake)

In the first half of the song there is a cymbal that's panned to the right.

It's panned WAY too much, and there's not much reverb as well, there's lots of stuff that's up and in your face and there's no sense of space.

It's as if it was a live performance in a small apartment room with walls lined with foam pads.

Use some reverb, even if it's just a little.

[gwilendiel]

What's this a remix of?

More an instrument edit than a remix (I did improv the end a little though)

It sounds pretty cool (but the electric guitars sound fake)

Best I could get out of the Slayer plugin... for the work I put into it anyway (very little)

In the first half of the song there is a cymbal that's panned to the right.

It's panned WAY too much, and there's not much reverb as well, there's lots of stuff that's up and in your face and there's no sense of space.

It's as if it was a live performance in a small apartment room with walls lined with foam pads.

Use some reverb, even if it's just a little.

Thanks for the input. I heard all of this when I made it though. I just can't be arsed after a certain point :<

I was like "this cymbal sounds weird over here-oh screw it" Heh.

Plus I grow tired of hearing 'perfect' stuff.

[Nabeel Ansari]

More an instrument edit than a remix (I did improv the end a little though)

Best I could get out of the Slayer plugin... for the work I put into it anyway (very little)

Thanks for the input. I heard all of this when I made it though. I just can't be arsed after a certain point :<

I was like "this cymbal sounds weird over here-oh screw it" Heh.

Plus I grow tired of hearing 'perfect' stuff.

Yeah well you might get tired of hearing imperfect stuff at one point... If you never try to make your stuff perfect.

Slayer's crap.

I haven't tried Slayer 2, but I bet it's crap as well. The only realistic sounding electric guitar is a real one (unless you're using super hi-quality samples and lots of the different effects, I know some people who are able to sequence electric guitars realistically.)

A new day, some new edits. Try fixing all that stuff now that you've got some sleep.

[Doni]

A little tip if you want a more "real sounding" guitar and you are using slayer:

run your slayer synth through "guitar rig", a module by native instruments. The module is designed to add color to an incoming guitar signal or any recorded guitar. Although I haven't tried doing this, I think it should work...

But that said, does the guitar need to sound "real"? I think a real guitar sounds like a pile of crap when its placed on a bed of fruity loops (usually). You'd have to make everything else sound "real" too...

I suppose I'll give my two bits on the mix:

I think it sounds good. It sounds like as if the original writers had access to better sound equipment but wrote the song in the same era (does that make sense... it's late, my communication skills are waning...)

The mix is a little too 'clean' for my tastes, but I think this is what you were going for. If it were me though, I would saturate the mix a bit more. Also, the drum pattern gets a little tiresome for me at times. But I suppose this is more of a cover than a remix as you said.

[gwilendiel]

Yeah well you might get tired of hearing imperfect stuff at one point... If you never try to make your stuff perfect.

Slayer's crap.

I haven't tried Slayer 2, but I bet it's crap as well. The only realistic sounding electric guitar is a real one (unless you're using super hi-quality samples and lots of the different effects, I know some people who are able to sequence electric guitars realistically.)

A new day, some new edits. Try fixing all that stuff now that you've got some sleep.

Yup. And I apologize if I came across smarmy.

I have a short attention span. I usually hammer things out in one sitting (this particular one only took about 6 hours)

I'm in a habit where I really hate it when I have something I realllllly like, then I try to fiddle with it more and then fook it up and can't quite get it back the way it was. So eventually I stop and say "no more"

Maybe if I had better equipment I'd be more attentive to details but all I have is FL Studio. I don't even have a MIDI keyboard. Not that it's an excuse but it isn't exactly an incentive for me either.

[Rozovian]

The biggest problem I hear with this is the guitar, but the sounds overall aren't very organic. Some creative use of effects could mask the quality of the sounds. Run the guitar through a vibrato, then an amp sim, it should improve the sound a bit, it just sounds like a distorted synth atm. The other sounds could benefit from other effects, like delay, reverb, eq...

Most of the drums are dry (a problem esp with the clap and crash) is dry. Bass and bass drum fight over the same frequency range.

With the internet's wealth of free resources you've got no reason to complain about not having the necessary equipment. Synths and samples are everywhere, just google for it.

Cool source. Did you notice the soon 20-yearold sources makes it sound more organic than your version? When you figure out why, you'll be able to use it in your works. Figure it out.

[gwilendiel]

The biggest problem I hear with this is the guitar, but the sounds overall aren't very organic. Some creative use of effects could mask the quality of the sounds. Run the guitar through a vibrato, then an amp sim, it should improve the sound a bit, it just sounds like a distorted synth atm. The other sounds could benefit from other effects, like delay, reverb, eq...

Most of the drums are dry (a problem esp with the clap and crash) is dry. Bass and bass drum fight over the same frequency range.

With the internet's wealth of free resources you've got no reason to complain about not having the necessary equipment. Synths and samples are everywhere, just google for it.

Cool source. Did you notice the soon 20-yearold sources makes it sound more organic than your version? When you figure out why, you'll be able to use it in your works. Figure it out.

I've figured it out, I simply don't care. It's all synth waves to me. I hear every piece and say "That's fake. This is fake. That's fake."

It just simply is what it is. It may have an 'epic feel' but that doesn't change what it is. It's far from organic to me. My version, to me, sounds more organic. Perhaps not real, but still more organic. I definitely used more non-linear approximation in the waves. I tend to hear everything unless it is entirely mush (or orchestra, which is basically like one huge instrument in a way, IMO) and I prefer to hear everything at times.

[Nabeel Ansari]

I've figured it out, I simply don't care. It's all synth waves to me. I hear every piece and say "That's fake. This is fake. That's fake."

It just simply is what it is. It may have an 'epic feel' but that doesn't change what it is. It's far from organic to me. My version, to me, sounds more organic. Perhaps not real, but still more organic. I definitely used more non-linear approximation in the waves. I tend to hear everything unless it is entirely mush (or orchestra, which is basically like one huge instrument in a way, IMO) and I prefer to hear everything at times.

Wow you sound a lot like me when I was not so used to the WIP forums, and I sounded pretty bad.

Calm down, he's not crushing your mix, he's offering his own opinion. He's allowed to because you posted this here on the WIP forum.

Anyways, it's good if you like your own music... but don't get defensive if others don't like it, because you asked for opinions.

[Rozovian]

I've figured it out, I simply don't care. It's all synth waves to me. I hear every piece and say "That's fake. This is fake. That's fake."

Sounds like comparing cubist painting to realism.

[gwilendiel]

Wow you sound a lot like me when I was not so used to the WIP forums, and I sounded pretty bad.

Calm down, he's not crushing your mix, he's offering his own opinion. He's allowed to because you posted this here on the WIP forum.

Anyways, it's good if you like your own music... but don't get defensive if others don't like it, because you asked for opinions.

I'm not excited, I'm just assertive. And I'm not defensive, I'm simply being accurate with my point of view.

I do hear things. Which is actually a pain in the ass to me. How real am I supposed to get as long as I'm still hearing that it isn't real? Or even the fact when I KNOW it isn't real?

I'm just not one of these people who strives for realism out of synthesis. I understand it, I know it is hard work, I just can't be arsed. If I want real guitars so badly, I'd be going pro, and if I were pro, I'd just get a guitar or ask/hire somebody who has the skill.

Emulating instruments is a legitimate and useful science, but to me it isn't worth the effort.

[Nabeel Ansari]

I'm not excited, I'm just assertive. And I'm not defensive, I'm simply being accurate with my point of view.

I do hear things. Which is actually a pain in the ass to me. How real am I supposed to get as long as I'm still hearing that it isn't real? Or even the fact when I KNOW it isn't real?

I'm just not one of these people who strives for realism out of synthesis. I understand it, I know it is hard work, I just can't be arsed. If I want real guitars so badly, I'd be going pro, and if I were pro, I'd just get a guitar or ask/hire somebody who has the skill.

Emulating instruments is a legitimate and useful science, but to me it isn't worth the effort.

It's actually not that hard, if you were "arsed" enough to explore FL Studio a little more.

I use all soundfonts and minimal samples... that doesn't stop me from understanding that all the notes at the same velocity on a piano makes it sound fake. If you really wanted to be lazy, go into piano roll and press alt+R. It randomizes note velocities so it sounds more realistic.

As for electric guitars, there are plenty of (bored) people on OCR that wouldn't hesitate to play some electric guitar stuff for you... it's not as expensive, difficult, and/or complicated as it seems.

I don't strive for realism... I just learn how, and it becomes a second nature to change note velocities so they're not all the same...

You say "not worth the effort", I say "not enough effort".

[gwilendiel]

It's actually not that hard, if you were "arsed" enough to explore FL Studio a little more.

I use all soundfonts and minimal samples... that doesn't stop me from understanding that all the notes at the same velocity on a piano makes it sound fake. If you really wanted to be lazy, go into piano roll and press alt+R. It randomizes note velocities so it sounds more realistic.

As for electric guitars, there are plenty of (bored) people on OCR that wouldn't hesitate to play some electric guitar stuff for you... it's not as expensive, difficult, and/or complicated as it seems.

I don't strive for realism... I just learn how, and it becomes a second nature to change note velocities so they're not all the same...

You say "not worth the effort", I say "not enough effort".

You are projecting your opinion onto me and what skills I may or may not have, which is why I am being reactionary.

You are assuming what I know or don't know. I don't know a lot but I may know more than you give me credit for, even if I still know less than you.

Just tell me what you hear in your opinion. I'm fine with that. When you start implying my intent (which is impossible for you to know) or a perceived lack of knowledge over implementation, then yeah, I'm going to back up my stuff.

[gwilendiel]

Or really, what tripped me up is phrases like "use some reverb"

That is a command to me. I do not take well to commands. And yes I'm that picky about phrases.

I apologize if it's all a misunderstanding.

[Nabeel Ansari]

You are projecting your opinion onto me and what skills I may or may not have, which is why I am being reactionary.

You are assuming what I know or don't know. I don't know a lot but I may know more than you give me credit for, even if I still know less than you.

Just tell me what you hear in your opinion. I'm fine with that. When you start implying my intent (which is impossible for you to know) or a perceived lack of knowledge over implementation, then yeah, I'm going to back up my stuff.

If I can't hear certain things in your music, I can't help but think that you don't know how to do certain things.

In this situation: If I don't hear realistic instruments, I can't help but think you don't know how to make instruments sound realistic.

It's very confusing when you say things are "not worth the effort", because I don't understand "why not".

I don't think your instruments are realistic so I'm explaining to you how to make them realistic.

I can't read minds, I can't tell what you can do, but I know what I can do and I explain the way I do things regardless of if you do it differently because I'm not sure if you do it at all.

I can't give you credit for things I don't hear.

Or really, what tripped me up is phrases like "use some reverb"

That is a command to me. I do not take well to commands. And yes I'm that picky about phrases.

I apologize if it's all a misunderstanding.

How about you just decide whether or not you listen to me...? I told you what I thought you should do and no one says you have to listen to me. I was suggesting to you, not commanding you.

No one says you HAVE to make them sound realistic, it's just that I think they are unrealistic and if you wanna make them realistic you should actually TRY rather than say "I'm trying too much and I'm tired of it."

If you don't know how, then you listen to the specifics of what we say. You do things based on what you agree and disagree with.

And if you don't want them to sound realistic, then just ignore what we say rather than being all assertive about it.

[gwilendiel]

being right

Again, thank you. And I apologize. I can be overly sensitive.

Personally, for me, it's not about knowledge but capability of knowledge. I know I can learn and I know where to look to learn if I feel like it. I understand what you say. I'm just a lazy ass.

That's the only excuse. I just need to accept that I am lazy and stop taking things personally.

[Nabeel Ansari]

Again, thank you. And I apologize. I can be overly sensitive.

Personally, for me, it's not about knowledge but capability of knowledge. I know I can learn and I know where to look to learn if I feel like it. I understand what you say. I'm just a lazy ass.

That's the only excuse. I just need to accept that I am lazy and stop taking things personally.

Uh.... what?

What did you just quote me from? I never said "being right"...

Like, I literally did not type those exact words.

Seriously, what did you just quote me from?!

[Rozovian]

She's saying you're right.

[gwilendiel]

She's saying you're right.

Yeah. I was just encapsulating. Maybe I should have said "QFT" instead.

[Nabeel Ansari]

She's saying you're right.

HUH???

That's the one thing I don't like about OCR.

Everyone's an adult, and I'm 14. I don't understand all these hidden messages.

BAHAHAHAHA, well, anyways Gwil just don't overreact too much to feedback in this forum.

I mean, think about it, if you didn't want to make changes that you wouldn't expect you'd want to make you never should've posted it here anyways.

No one ever usually hears the key faults of their music until they become super 1337 after years of experience, so you never really expect what you get when you ask for feedback.

What do I say? Expect the unexpected, and keep an open mind.

But if you did expect what you got, that's even more reason to not to be reactive. :/ Actually, that's a reason to not even render the mp3! You should do what you can before you ask for feedback. If something feels impossible and you did all you could, take a break from the mix (maybe get super depressed that you can't make good music and delete all your projects like I did when I was 11 or 12and then learn from the whole thing as a life lesson), start a new project, and come back to it if you think your newly gained experience is good enough.

[gwilendiel]

HUH???

That's the one thing I don't like about OCR.

Everyone's an adult, and I'm 14. I don't understand all these hidden messages.

BAHAHAHAHA, well, anyways Gwil just don't overreact too much to feedback in this forum.

I mean, think about it, if you didn't want to make changes that you wouldn't expect you'd want to make you never should've posted it here anyways.

No one ever usually hears the key faults of their music until they become super 1337 after years of experience, so you never really expect what you get when you ask for feedback.

What do I say? Expect the unexpected, and keep an open mind.

But if you did expect what you got, that's even more reason to not to be reactive. :/ Actually, that's a reason to not even render the mp3! You should do what you can before you ask for feedback. If something feels impossible and you did all you could, take a break from the mix (maybe get super depressed that you can't make good music and delete all your projects like I did when I was 11 or 12and then learn from the whole thing as a life lesson), start a new project, and come back to it if you think your newly gained experience is good enough.

Well you're right. I simply have a different approach. When I stop a project, it is stopped, unless I decide otherwise.

I do accept feedback about it but I apply that feedback to the next project. You eventually have to stop changing things. I just do it earlier than most I guess.

[Doni]

A nice little back and forth here... There's a few things we can learn from this:

First, our friend Neblix. Indeed his intentions are pure. He is offering advice free of charge which is solely for the benefit of others. Whether somebody takes the advice or not does not directly impact Neblix at all. However, he is a youngin', by his own admission, and is perhaps a bit of a renegade when it comes to the delivery of said advice. Lessons to be learned, surely.

Now, Gwilendiel. It's clear that you are satisfied with a more synthetic sound, and I can feel your anguish after expressing this several times seemingly to no avail. However, people do just want to help, and the fact that they are posting on your mix is something to consider as well. When you say things that sound like you can't be bothered to take somebody's advice, it can be a bit insulting. I'm not saying take everybody's advice; I'm saying you may want to express some gratitude when saying that you probably will not take it.

Of course, nobody here needs to take my advice on 'life skills'. I am 26, a guy, and by no means complete in my studies on life and the interaction between peoples, but I hope that this third party perspective can bring people closer together.... If that makes any sense at all

[Nabeel Ansari]

Well you're right. I simply have a different approach. When I stop a project, it is stopped, unless I decide otherwise.

I do accept feedback about it but I apply that feedback to the next project. You eventually have to stop changing things. I just do it earlier than most I guess.

Haha that's why all of my pieces are "lessons".

(a previous mix I was bad at production)

In my Serenade of Water remix, I learned to be better at production.

(the previous mix I was bad at rhythm and melodic statements)

In my Metroid Prime remix, I learned to be better at rhythm and "melodic statements".

These two were failures, but I took the musical ideas from them to make my other songs that are not failures (yet?). These are not failures (yet?).

In my Galaxy Man remix, I learned to take ideas from other styles and put them in my music.

In my Ice Cap Zone remix, I learned how to make a damn good solo without having to use anything smaller than a 16 note. (and then I went back and made a solo for the previous mix)

In my -message deleted by Neblix for secrecy- remix, I learned how to keep the energy of the song varied and I pretty much overall summed up everything I learned in this one. I also improved my arrangement here.

So if you wanted, you could say that you're like me. Starting a new project helps you learn more about how you can write good music. So what if your music is good? Make it great! So what if it's great? Make it fantastic! If it's already fantastic, there's still always room for improvement.

Of course, nobody here needs to take my advice on 'life skills'. I am 26, a guy, and by no means complete in my studies on life and the interaction between peoples, but I hope that this third party perspective can bring people closer together.... If that makes any sense at all

Yes, that makes sense. Thanks for the breakdown, and now that this little dance is over, I dare to ask:

Are we gonna talk about the remix again?

[gwilendiel]

Are we gonna talk about the remix again?

Sure, why not. Pay no mind to my previous hardcore ways... just as I don't have to do what you say, you don't have to take me seriously either.

But you guys have showed me how to meet in the middle. So by all means, if we want to discuss it, lets.

[Nabeel Ansari]

Sure, why not. Pay no mind to my previous hardcore ways... just as I don't have to do what you say, you don't have to take me seriously either.

But you guys have showed me how to meet in the middle. So by all means, if we want to discuss it, lets.

Actually it's kinda illegal to not talk about the remix so long as we're in Workshop forum...

...unless, of course, you want the great moderator to come and tell us all to get back on topic. xD

But unless you make updates, there's pretty much not much more to say about your mix. What's been said by Rozo, the others and I pretty much nails the main, er, "setbacks" of your song.