Your thoughts on chord progession generators?

[Kidd Cabbage]

Mmm... music theory. Strange thing about the overtone series is that the only thing that generates it is the vibrations from a straight line (like a string). Most other objects make unique harmonics and overtones (a triangle, for example, divides into tritones, for it's series). So in reality one can't really rely on the overtone series as the real 'reason' harmonies sound 'good'.

It actually boils down to what people are used to hearing. Familiarity creates networks in the brain that simulate pleasure, so people enjoy what they are used to (namely, tonality and the overtone series). The only reason that we are so familiar with the harmonic series is because the church emphasized it's importance and perfection and developed a polyphonic system around it that the western world was forced to use (thanks, Charlemagne). Thus, we've been forced to listen to contrapuntal tonality for millenia. Listen to something enough and you'll enjoy it, strangely enough. Really, there's only a relationship between harmony and melody because people have done it for so many years (and continue to emphasize tonal music through any person's life) that you just develop a taste for it.Study a little ethnomusicology and realize that most other cultures don't use harmony at all (the western world, in fact, is quite unique in our polyphonic music).

I'd like to point out that along with stringed instruments, the overtone series also applies to columns of air. So that makes up, well, every non-percussion instrument in the orchestra for starters.

And your second paragraph contradicts itself. You say to use ethnic music, which doesn't rely on the overtone series, as an example of why the overtone series shouldn't be a good basis for harmony, but then proceed to say afterward that most ethnic music doesn't have any functional harmony!

Yes, I know that more immersion leads to more acceptance, but consonance and dissonance are far more objective than most things in music, and how you use those have to do with your stylistics in music.

Also, keep in mind that harmony was the original question - not what makes *any music* sound good or not. And unless what you say has anything pertaining to harmony (triangles and ethnic music without harmony), it's really irrelevant. If you want to bring up Just or Pythagorean intonation or something, fine, even if they're barely ever used. Even microtonal harmonies are based on the overtone series. It just so happens that our 12-tone equal-temperament system was derived to have as many functional notes as close to the harmonic partials in the overtone series as was reasonable.

[ambinate]

it's nice, but i don't understand why you need a generator. it's just i-VI-VII. that's the right one.

[Gario]

I'd like to point out that along with stringed instruments, the overtone series also applies to columns of air. So that makes up, well, every non-percussion instrument in the orchestra for starters.

Yes, because western instruments were used because they followed the traditional overtone series. The chicken and the egg - were the instruments chosen because of the series, or was the series developed because of the instruments? I'd like to think that in the beginning the instruments dictated the series, but later the series determined what instruments were acceptable.

And generally, the columns of air are being vibrated by a reed (woodwinds) or the vibrating of the lips (brass), so it isn't the air itself that produces the series, but the objects applied to them (except the flute, of course).

And your second paragraph contradicts itself. You say to use ethnic music, which doesn't rely on the overtone series, as an example of why the overtone series shouldn't be a good basis for harmony, but then proceed to say afterward that most ethnic music doesn't have any functional harmony!

Um... no I didn't. I never claimed that the overtone series wasn't a good basis of harmony. I claimed that it isn't a mysterious thing that magically creates 'good' music, and used ethnomusicology as an example of music that used other unrelated systems altogether. I further pointed out that most other cultures in the world don't use polyphonic music, so talking about 'harmony' as if it were natural is actually nonsensical, in a sense. Talking about two different things, there.

Yes, I know that more immersion leads to more acceptance, but consonance and dissonance are far more objective than most things in music, and how you use those have to do with your stylistics in music.

Mmm... yes and no, depending on what you mean by it. If you mean the sonic waves matching perfectly then yeah, it's objective. If you mean the traditional use of the term (referring to equal tone Octaves, 5ths, 4ths, 6ths and 3rds) it's very subjective, since they are all technically horribly dissonant, according to the objective definition of 'consonant' (it was a salient complaint in the late Baroque and throughout the entire Classical period against Equal-temperament, which was only used from 1850 on). We've just gotten so used to them that we don't notice anymore.

Also, keep in mind that harmony was the original question - not what makes *any music* sound good or not. And unless what you say has anything pertaining to harmony (triangles and ethnic music without harmony), it's really irrelevant. If you want to bring up Just or Pythagorean intonation or something, fine, even if they're barely ever used.

You're absolutely right - this was all a side note because people brought up some real theory (which is very rare, in this forum). I added my opinion of the generator after my theory fluff, to try to keep it on topic as best I could. Sorry about the deviation - I'll stop, after this post.

Even microtonal harmonies are based on the overtone series. It just so happens that our 12-tone equal-temperament system was derived to have as many functional notes as close to the harmonic partials in the overtone series as was reasonable.

One word - Partch. Look him up (his stuff is awesome, by the way).

Terribly sorry about the deviation... I can't help myself when theory is involved. I think the chord generator is cool, really. It also is just as 'musical' as anything else anyone can produce, since it simply generates the chords - it doesn't take away that person's choice to use those chords or not. That's my opinion on the generator.