Hero of Wind and Time - WIP

[Modus]

Well.. I've posted two songs here before and never got any feedback Just so you know.. I'm not going to get upset if you tell me it's awful. I have no ego, no experience to warrant such a thing. I've read the threads where people are ripped to shreds and I'm ok with it. I just want to improve.

This is my second song, borrowing elements from the Song of Time and the Wind Waker title screen. Was a lot of fun to make though I'm sure there's plenty of problems to discuss. Thanks for any feedback.

http://soundcloud.com/exobyte/hero-of-wind-of-time-wip

[Nabeel Ansari]

I just want to improve.

http://soundcloud.com/exobyte/hero-of-wind-of-time-wip

Just stick to not attacking the critics and you'll be fine.

FEEDBACK:

:10 That piano/synth/whatever is a little too loud and is crackley. I'd replace it or lower it down.

:23 Those strings are way too high and sound like they are from the SNES. Try lowering them an octave or two and replace the sample (Squidfont Orchestral Soundfont is good, you can find it online)

:35 The drums are really generic, I can tell exactly what directory of the FL Studio default samples you got them from. You can try using an acoustic drum kit sampled (the "Sky Kit" in the free Kore 2 Player you can find online is really nice)

:46 Violin sounds really stiff and bad quality. Violins are hard to recreate on the computer, so I'd suggest finding someone to play it for you (there are lots of really nice people on this website, just post a thread in the recruitment forum and wait a few days.)

1:00 Things get a little busy, sounds like it's building up to something grand.

1:48 NEVER repeat cymbals every bit like for a regular chorus unless you're building a crescendo or something. I'd just have the one at the beginning and then other every two measures or something like that.

Overall at this point you have a lot of things going on, it sounds really crowded. And in my opinion, the maniacal laughter in the background is not needed and really takes away from the feeling.

2:25 There it is, to complete the package. Never, and i mean NEVER, use FL Slayer for electric guitar sounds. You need to ask someone because they're also hard to replicate.

Other than replacing the really low quality sounds you have, the arrangement is pretty nice. It's just from 1:48 on, I feel as though you made that part too long, see what else you can do to make it more interesting after half of it passes.

Other than that, I really like the feel, the mood, and the arrangement!

I'd say all in all this just needs a big production upgrade.

[Modus]

Just stick to not attacking the critics and you'll be fine.

FEEDBACK:

:10 That piano/synth/whatever is a little too loud and is crackley. I'd replace it or lower it down.

Your first comment is the only one I'm having trouble seeing for myself. Of course, I'm completely new but it sounds normal to me. Not trying to argue, just trying to figure out how I should go about fixing it.

:23 Those strings are way too high and sound like they are from the SNES. Try lowering them an octave or two and replace the sample (Squidfont Orchestral Soundfont is good, you can find it online)

Exact instructions! Nice. I'll definitely try that out.

[Nabeel Ansari]

Oh wow.. I was having a lot of fun with Slayer too. I hate to have to ask two people, but of course I will. Kind of thinking about picking up guitar again myself now that I have a good enough computer to plug one into.

Trust me listen to enough people whine about Slayer and compare it to enough real guitar leads and you start to understand what I'm talking about when I say don't use it.

As for the piano, try replacing it. In my opinion it would do better with a more grand piano sound. Something brighter, less soft, and more plucky.

[Modus]

Trust me listen to enough people whine about Slayer and compare it to enough real guitar leads and you start to understand what I'm talking about when I say don't use it.

As for the piano, try replacing it. In my opinion it would do better with a more grand piano sound. Something brighter, less soft, and more plucky.

Alright, I'll try that out too.

So I showed my brother the song and all his compliments were stuff I was told to take out XD I definitely agree with you more and trust you more, rest assured. He's only 15 so he doesn't really know what 'production value' even means.

Anyway, any second opinions before I get started on the fixes? Oh, I actually I have a question.. it's THAT question, yes. I'm sorry If I fix this up enough, is there any hope in submitting it to judges? I'm fixing it up no matter but I'm not gonna second guess how far behind in the game I am.

EDIT: Well.. actually I don't even think the arrangement is close enough to any source to even begin thinking about that. I think I can answer my own question here

[Rozovian]

0:23 high strings are waay too high. Just turns into some shrill noise. Then comes something that sounds like a whiny electric violin, not the best sound for this soundscape, at least the whining part. Agree about the cymbals at 1:45, sounds terrible. The same sample over and over becomes grating, and while it might work compositionally it doesn't work sonically. Same with the fake guitar. Better distortion/amp sim might improve it but it's clearly not the real thing. Some choir parts go way too low to sound good with those samples.

That's some technical nitpicks. It's an interesting dynamic arrangement, and you should improve its sound. Not ocr material, but it's a good track to improve your production on. Good luck with it.

[Nabeel Ansari]

He's only 15 so he doesn't really know what 'production value' even means.

Teenagers.

Anyway, any second opinions before I get started on the fixes? Oh, I actually I have a question.. it's THAT question, yes. I'm sorry If I fix this up enough, is there any hope in submitting it to judges? I'm fixing it up no matter but I'm not gonna second guess how far behind in the game I am.

EDIT: Well.. actually I don't even think the arrangement is close enough to any source to even begin thinking about that. I think I can answer my own question here

Just fix up the production, and we'll see from there. Of course it's not up to us either, it ultimately comes down to the big guys themselves, but Emunator, Nutritious, and Halc are the WiP moderators, so they're the guys certified to tell you what kind of chance you have against the judges. Of course, they're not always right, but waiting for their okay sure beats having to sub over and over cloggin up the judge queue.

[Modus]

0:23 high strings are waay too high. Just turns into some shrill noise. Then comes something that sounds like a whiny electric violin, not the best sound for this soundscape, at least the whining part. Agree about the cymbals at 1:45, sounds terrible. The same sample over and over becomes grating, and while it might work compositionally it doesn't work sonically. Same with the fake guitar. Better distortion/amp sim might improve it but it's clearly not the real thing. Some choir parts go way too low to sound good with those samples.

That's some technical nitpicks. It's an interesting dynamic arrangement, and you should improve its sound. Not ocr material, but it's a good track to improve your production on. Good luck with it.

OK, thanks

[Modus]

OK, I took the advice I got and implemented it the best I could so far. The only things I didn't do was replace the drums because I can't install the Kore Player files to get that sample I was recommended. My C: drive is a 32GB solid state and doesn't have enough space for the installer, so I'll have to find another way to get hold of that sample. I also didn't replace the violin because I'm waiting for responses in the recruitment thread. In the meantime, I'd like to have the track as 'finished' as possible by the time I have a real violinist. Anyway, here's what I DID do:

* Lowered the balance on the reverb-y synth at the beginning so it wouldn't be so loud and crackly.

* Replaced the SNES sounding synth with another sample (those ARE some pretty cool strings!) Also lowered it a couple octaves throughout.

* Replaced the piano sample with a grand piano one that is slightly more bright

* Raised the chamber chorus an octave throughout.

* Removed the laughing, the solo Slayer, and an extra chorus sample.. and replaced the rhythm guitar with another from the middle section to make it less busy and... well, crappy

* Changed the ending to something less cheesy and more boring because I like boring endings

* Lots of re-balancing, hopefully for the better

Link: http://soundcloud.com/exobyte/hero-of-wind-of-time-wip-revision-1

Hopefully that solves some issues. If I'm going down the right road, hold your peace. If not, please save me before I get too lost

EDIT: Oh.. also did not change up the arrangement as suggested. As much as I want to optimize the work I do, I think since this is a practice piece I'll keep it as is and make a mental note on that for future mixes.

[Nabeel Ansari]

There's absolutely no reason you should have that small of a hard drive as your main. >.<

With Windows 7 installation that leaves you 10-12 GB for music production. Not ideal at all.

You need to get a nice big hard disk drive (cheaper) and use the SSD as a secondary.

I'll post mix review in a bit.

REVIEW:

The strings in the beginning (:23) still sound pretty fake, make sure the chords have continuity instead of new notes playing every beat. (If notes from one chord are in the next, extend the notes into the next chord rather than have them repeat).

Also, this still suffers from Slayer guitar and bad violin sample. (but you're working on that)

Also, the choir (the low male voice choir) sounds really fake. Try adding wet reverb. The reverb should be focused less on the leads and more on the strings, the choir, etc.

[Modus]

Well.. the lines in the string pattern were already stretched to overlap, but I made them overlap even more. This didn't seem to fix the problem, though. There must be something I'm not understanding because no matter how I overlap them it doesn't sound legato. It seems like this sample insists on fading in and out.

I scrapped the guitar completely and gave up on the idea of an edgy, sinister mood for that middle section. I tried replacing it with more sweeping strings to have it fit the mood, but now it feels like the piece just meanders now.. not really developing into anything.

I'm starting to get the feeling I'm spinning my wheels with this piece. The lesson I might take from this experience is to not make symphonic, orchestral things at all and stick to the genre that interests me most: electronic. I just have the feeling I'm the only guy around here who thought I made something emotional, and I need to figure out why this feeling isn't reflected in my listeners. I dunno, I'm just not excited about this anymore, but I know for a fact I've learned a lot by making it and posting it here and this new knowledge will help me down the road.

However, I've made it a policy to ALWAYS follow through on things I've started so I'm going to revise it until it's acceptable and find a use for it, but I'm not going to place any bets on this arrangement.

Also, regarding the 32GB drive issue.. see, I have 1.5TB of storage on 4 internal drives but for some reason programs DEMAND to be self-extracted onto the C: drive for installation even when I tell it to install on a separate drive. It won't be an issue for long, though. I'm making some upgrades and clean installing the OS.. this time I'm going into the registry and telling it to put the User directories on a separate drive to save me tons of space on the C: drive. My point is.. there's nothing wrong with a 32GB system drive, there's something wrong with how some installers are made. I blame Gore.

[Rozovian]

If you want legato strings, you might want to look into the adsr settings, the volume envelope. Longer release means it takes longer for the notes to die out after the notes end - which should help them blend together. You won't get true legato easily, but you can get something passable that way. Shorter attack means they'll hit full volume sooner (sooner into each note), longer attack might make it easier to fade together but shorter attack makes them more. You could experiment with having two instances of the same strings with different envelope settings.

New v is better, but you've still got a problem with thin leads. The rest of the instrumentation isn't awesome but I wouldn't care much about it. Leads are your problems, and you could improve the drums (both writing and sound) a bit. The 1:45 section seems like it's missing a big snare on every other beat to counter the big crashes. Also, end your fills with something (2:29).

I now noticed the time signature, no wonder I like this track.