learning instruments

[mickomoo]

I'm currently practicing my musician skip skills with one of the only instruments I can play. For any of you pianists, how did you overcome playing rhythm and melody simultaneously with both hands. I can play with both hands, I've been able to for years, but I could never play to distinct rhythms it my hands just don't work like that lol.

Also, I'm finally thinking of picking up guitar. I specifically only like electric guitar though, but should I start with acoustic or it doesn't matter? My acoustic isn't tuned and I don't know how to tune it, that's part of the deter ant from trying acoustic

[Nabeel Ansari]

I'm currently practicing my musician skip skills with one of the only instruments I can play. For any of you pianists, how did you overcome playing rhythm and melody simultaneously with both hands. I can play with both hands, I've been able to for years, but I could never play to distinct rhythms it my hands just don't work like that lol.

Also, I'm finally thinking of picking up guitar. I specifically only like electric guitar though, but should I start with acoustic or it doesn't matter? My acoustic isn't tuned and I don't know how to tune it, that's part of the deter ant from trying acoustic

The strings should be tuned (started from the thickest to thinnest string) to E A D G B E.

Basically play those notes on the piano and turn the knobs at the top until they match. Better, use an online guitar tuner (they're everywhere).

[Dissidia]

I know what you mean I can only play very simple parts with my left hand if I am playing a melody with my right hand. More practice I suppose :9

[SnappleMan]

Tuning a guitar isn't as simple as turning the knobs till it matches the same notes on a piano. You have to make sure you set the action and intonation correctly.

The action is the height of the strings from the neck and body of the guitar. Ideally you want the strings to be as low as possible without giving you any buzzing or unwanted noise. This is achieved by adjusting the truss rod (google this to learn how to do it properly for your guitar). After you've correctly set the truss rod you want to adjust the strings at the bridge, unless you're using an acoustic guitar. Messing with the bridge on an acoustic guitar is quite different and more difficult (to me at least) than on an electric. The key in setting action is that you get the most comfortable string pressure to suit your playing style. The lower the strings are, the easier the guitar is to play.

Intonation is EXTREMELY important. When you tune your guitar you can't just tune the open strings and call it a day. You have to make sure that your intonation is set correctly. Intonation is the length of the string across the neck and body of the guitar. This length determines the tuning of the string all over the board. This means that just because you tune your D string to D you wont necessarily have a perfectly in tune E or G on that string. The way to test for this is simple: tune your string up to pitch, then play the natural harmonic at the 12th fret (lightly touch the string at the 12th fret, pick it, then as soon as you pick the string you take your finger off the fret, this should give you a bell type sound). That harmonic should be right on pitch, then fret the 12th fret normally and play that, the note should be the exact same pitch as the harmonic. If it is, your intonation is fine and all the notes on that string will be at pitch. If it's off then you need to change the string length by adjusting the bridge saddles for each string. A saddle is the little piece that holds a string in place at the bridge. On electric guitars this piece is independent of the rest of the bridge and can be adjusted easily, on an acoustic guitar though the saddle is one huge piece that all the strings are attached to and to adjust it you need to do some pretty serious routing to your guitar. If you have an electric guitar and your string is sharp (meaning the note at the 12th fret is sharp), just adjust saddle so that it moves back away from the neck (do this very slowly, only a quarter turn at a time), this will lengthen the string a little and give it enough room to vibrate so that your note should be in tune. If your 12th fret is flat, then you need to shorten the string length by moving the saddle closer to the neck (again, with small quarter turns of the adjustment screw on the saddle, if you go too far you'll have a hard time tuning your strings).

Oh and after you do all this setting up of your guitar, make sure you stretch your strings (if it's a new set). Strings will go out of tune as you play them for the first couple days because they naturally stretch to their final length. You can stop this by stretching them as you're stringing up for the first time. To stretch a string you tune it to pitch, then grab it at the 12th fret and pull up (be careful not to break it). Let it go and play the string, you'll hear it go flat, retune and repeat the stretching till it stops going flat.

IMPORTANT: Abuse youtube and google for info, videos, discussions and tutorials on this stuff. Don't do anything in haste, make sure you understand everything before you try any of this stuff. It's really simple once you understand it.

[Nabeel Ansari]

I didn't know that stuff was part of regularly tuning the guitar. I thought it was just something you do when you restring or buy a new one, do the intonation and action also get messed up over time?

[SnappleMan]

Changes in the weather and humidity change the bow of the neck, and you should correct the intonation every time you string up your guitar or leave it unplayed for a long period of time. For the most part once you set the intonation you wont have to do it again unless you change string gauges.

[Miru]

Electric is a bit easier than acoustic because the strings and closer together and are closer to the bridge, and it gives you more accessible high notes, but you should make your decision of acoustic or electric based on whichever one you really want to play.

[ectogemia]

Electric is indeed easier than acoustic.

Also, just improvise on piano. A lot. It's what I've done for the past 9-12 months, and my musicianship has improved by over 9000. I'm not fluid with radically different rhythms between hands, but I can do some pretty sweet stuff with ol' lefty while righty shreds out some badass riffs. With more improv, I'm feeling more independence in both hands, and it beats the hell out of playing someone else's music off a sheet.

[mickomoo]

Electric is indeed easier than acoustic.

Also, just improvise on piano. A lot. It's what I've done for the past 9-12 months, and my musicianship has improved by over 9000. I'm not fluid with radically different rhythms between hands, but I can do some pretty sweet stuff with ol' lefty while righty shreds out some badass riffs. With more improv, I'm feeling more independence in both hands, and it beats the hell out of playing someone else's music off a sheet.

Yeah I noticed that by improving I've improved but I'm looking for more directed improvement. I'm starting by rewriting songs I've written but I'm gonna have to practice my musicianship again. It's been years lol.

I'm finding electric intimidating considering that half the stuff electric guitarists do have no freaking musical notation. Also, I can only play one string at a time and can't alternate between strings. Guitar's the most annoying (but coolest) instrument I've attempted to learn

[SnappleMan]

Electric guitar is easier in that it's physically easier to play, but at the same time the stuff you find intimidating is the easiest of all. Most of the stuff that isn't notated comes out of a guitarists repertoire of licks. Meaning, phrases and patterns you teach yourself that you link together to form a guitar solo or whatever else. Since the way a guitar is designed makes it possible to use the same pattern over a different spot on the fretboard to change key, all you need to do is learn the patterns and then you just move them up or down the neck depending on what key your song is in.

Like on a piano, gmaj and emaj have completely different fingerings, but on a guitar all major chords have the same fingerings, you just move your root from g to e and you're set. So any cool phrase you learn will work in any key (given you're aware of subtle changes in tension notes and whatever else that characterizes the feel you're going for).

[AngelCityOutlaw]

Tuning a guitar isn't as simple as turning the knobs till it matches the same notes on a piano. You have to make sure you set the action and intonation correctly.

The action is the height of the strings from the neck and body of the guitar. Ideally you want the strings to be as low as possible without giving you any buzzing or unwanted noise. This is achieved by adjusting the truss rod (google this to learn how to do it properly for your guitar). After you've correctly set the truss rod you want to adjust the strings at the bridge, unless you're using an acoustic guitar. Messing with the bridge on an acoustic guitar is quite different and more difficult (to me at least) than on an electric. The key in setting action is that you get the most comfortable string pressure to suit your playing style. The lower the strings are, the easier the guitar is to play.

Intonation is EXTREMELY important. When you tune your guitar you can't just tune the open strings and call it a day. You have to make sure that your intonation is set correctly. Intonation is the length of the string across the neck and body of the guitar. This length determines the tuning of the string all over the board. This means that just because you tune your D string to D you wont necessarily have a perfectly in tune E or G on that string. The way to test for this is simple: tune your string up to pitch, then play the natural harmonic at the 12th fret (lightly touch the string at the 12th fret, pick it, then as soon as you pick the string you take your finger off the fret, this should give you a bell type sound). That harmonic should be right on pitch, then fret the 12th fret normally and play that, the note should be the exact same pitch as the harmonic. If it is, your intonation is fine and all the notes on that string will be at pitch. If it's off then you need to change the string length by adjusting the bridge saddles for each string. A saddle is the little piece that holds a string in place at the bridge. On electric guitars this piece is independent of the rest of the bridge and can be adjusted easily, on an acoustic guitar though the saddle is one huge piece that all the strings are attached to and to adjust it you need to do some pretty serious routing to your guitar. If you have an electric guitar and your string is sharp (meaning the note at the 12th fret is sharp), just adjust saddle so that it moves back away from the neck (do this very slowly, only a quarter turn at a time), this will lengthen the string a little and give it enough room to vibrate so that your note should be in tune. If your 12th fret is flat, then you need to shorten the string length by moving the saddle closer to the neck (again, with small quarter turns of the adjustment screw on the saddle, if you go too far you'll have a hard time tuning your strings).

Oh and after you do all this setting up of your guitar, make sure you stretch your strings (if it's a new set). Strings will go out of tune as you play them for the first couple days because they naturally stretch to their final length. You can stop this by stretching them as you're stringing up for the first time. To stretch a string you tune it to pitch, then grab it at the 12th fret and pull up (be careful not to break it). Let it go and play the string, you'll hear it go flat, retune and repeat the stretching till it stops going flat.

IMPORTANT: Abuse youtube and google for info, videos, discussions and tutorials on this stuff. Don't do anything in haste, make sure you understand everything before you try any of this stuff. It's really simple once you understand it.

THIS DAMN IT

Snappleman provides better info than most guitar "articles" I see out there.

[SonicThHedgog]

Tuning a guitar isn't as simple as turning the knobs till it matches the same notes on a piano. You have to make sure you set the action and intonation correctly.

The action is the height of the strings from the neck and body of the guitar. Ideally you want the strings to be as low as possible without giving you any buzzing or unwanted noise. This is achieved by adjusting the truss rod (google this to learn how to do it properly for your guitar). After you've correctly set the truss rod you want to adjust the strings at the bridge, unless you're using an acoustic guitar. Messing with the bridge on an acoustic guitar is quite different and more difficult (to me at least) than on an electric. The key in setting action is that you get the most comfortable string pressure to suit your playing style. The lower the strings are, the easier the guitar is to play.

Intonation is EXTREMELY important. When you tune your guitar you can't just tune the open strings and call it a day. You have to make sure that your intonation is set correctly. Intonation is the length of the string across the neck and body of the guitar. This length determines the tuning of the string all over the board. This means that just because you tune your D string to D you wont necessarily have a perfectly in tune E or G on that string. The way to test for this is simple: tune your string up to pitch, then play the natural harmonic at the 12th fret (lightly touch the string at the 12th fret, pick it, then as soon as you pick the string you take your finger off the fret, this should give you a bell type sound). That harmonic should be right on pitch, then fret the 12th fret normally and play that, the note should be the exact same pitch as the harmonic. If it is, your intonation is fine and all the notes on that string will be at pitch. If it's off then you need to change the string length by adjusting the bridge saddles for each string. A saddle is the little piece that holds a string in place at the bridge. On electric guitars this piece is independent of the rest of the bridge and can be adjusted easily, on an acoustic guitar though the saddle is one huge piece that all the strings are attached to and to adjust it you need to do some pretty serious routing to your guitar. If you have an electric guitar and your string is sharp (meaning the note at the 12th fret is sharp), just adjust saddle so that it moves back away from the neck (do this very slowly, only a quarter turn at a time), this will lengthen the string a little and give it enough room to vibrate so that your note should be in tune. If your 12th fret is flat, then you need to shorten the string length by moving the saddle closer to the neck (again, with small quarter turns of the adjustment screw on the saddle, if you go too far you'll have a hard time tuning your strings).

Oh and after you do all this setting up of your guitar, make sure you stretch your strings (if it's a new set). Strings will go out of tune as you play them for the first couple days because they naturally stretch to their final length. You can stop this by stretching them as you're stringing up for the first time. To stretch a string you tune it to pitch, then grab it at the 12th fret and pull up (be careful not to break it). Let it go and play the string, you'll hear it go flat, retune and repeat the stretching till it stops going flat.

IMPORTANT: Abuse youtube and google for info, videos, discussions and tutorials on this stuff. Don't do anything in haste, make sure you understand everything before you try any of this stuff. It's really simple once you understand it.

Should I explain tuning a Floyd set-up and how to tune to other tunings besides E standered ( F , Eb , D ,C# standered tuning)? Its harder then tuning a fixed bridge guitar, including what snapple said.

2. Its NOT EASIER TO PLAY GUITAR ON ELETRIC.... seriously wtf....

its SOFTER to play on the electric which requiring less finger strength, if you cant play a song or a melody on acoustic then 9.9 times out of 10 your not going to be playing it on electric either without practice and practice transfers.

Its best to start with Acoustic! to build strangth then move on to electric, altho you dont have to, but if your doing chordal work alot, electric will take more time for you to build strength

but either way you will get to where you aim to go.

[Nabeel Ansari]

Should I explain tuning a Floyd set-up and how to tune to other tunings besides E standered ( F , Eb , D ,C# standered tuning)? Its harder then tuning a fixed bridge guitar, including what snapple said.

That's not really the purpose of the thread, the guy just didn't know how to tune his acoustic guitar.

[SonicThHedgog]

That's not really the purpose of the thread, the guy just didn't know how to tune his acoustic guitar.

Well he did say he wanted an electric, and you never know if his eyes get caught by one of those sexy floyd guitar XD.

[Kiamet]

Tapping drum rudiments with your hands can help with co-ordination on the piano. And for more complicated syncopation, practice with a metronome, preferably set to the smallest subdivision on the page. If the smallest rhythm in the phrase is an eighth note, the metronome should be ticking "one + two + three + four + ".

You can make your own rudiments by looking at the notes in both hands, and writing R (right), L (left) or B (both) above every note. For example, 4 quarter notes in the right hand and 2 half-notes in the left hand would be "BOTH - left - BOTH - left". On beats 1 and 3, the hands meet, creating "both".

[AngelCityOutlaw]

Should I explain tuning a Floyd set-up and how to tune to other tunings besides E standered ( F , Eb , D ,C# standered tuning)? Its harder then tuning a fixed bridge guitar, including what snapple said.

2. Its NOT EASIER TO PLAY GUITAR ON ELETRIC.... seriously wtf....

its SOFTER to play on the electric which requiring less finger strength, if you cant play a song or a melody on acoustic then 9.9 times out of 10 your not going to be playing it on electric either without practice and practice transfers.

Its best to start with Acoustic! to build strangth then move on to electric, altho you dont have to, but if your doing chordal work alot, electric will take more time for you to build strength

but either way you will get to where you aim to go.

I started on acoustic and electric at the same time. The only reason I found electric slightly harder to learn is because it's a little bit harder to control the sound. Your muting has to be spot on. Especially if you're using gain, the slightest knock or movement can set it off. But in terms of "finger strength" there's really no difference between the two. For most people, it kinda hurts to play in the beginning until your fingers get a little tougher and the skin on your fingertips becomes armor. It's just as effective to start with electric as it is to start with acoustic.

[Nabeel Ansari]

Well he did say he wanted an electric, and you never know if his eyes get caught by one of those sexy floyd guitar XD.

I explained to him basic guitar tuning so that he could have acoustic guitar as an option because he said he didn't want to play his acoustic because he didn't know how to tune it.

[SonicThHedgog]

I started on acoustic and electric at the same time. The only reason I found electric slightly harder to learn is because it's a little bit harder to control the sound. Your muting has to be spot on. Especially if you're using gain, the slightest knock or movement can set it off. But in terms of "finger strength" there's really no difference between the two. For most people, it kinda hurts to play in the beginning until your fingers get a little tougher and the skin on your fingertips becomes armor. It's just as effective to start with electric as it is to start with acoustic.

I agree with this completly, but acoustic strings feel a bit heavy/thicker

When I moved from acoustic to electric the first time aswell as some friends of mine, the eletric felt very awkward, as you said it felt like you need way more expression to play eletric and more stability especically with distortion, it was like playing a new instrument.

[ectogemia]

I'm finding electric intimidating considering that half the stuff electric guitarists do have no freaking musical notation.

That's a blessing in disguise and an excellent reason to give guitar a shot As far as I'm concerned anymore, sheet music is a crutch and sometimes an impediment lying in the way of improvement. Your ear is the most important part of your musical self. Listen to guitar solos, figure out the chords behind it, solo over it yourself, and eventually you'll be able to hear how (and why, as far as theory goes) the guitarist did what he did.

Did I mention I don't really like sheet music?

[LuketheXjesse]

Its NOT EASIER TO PLAY GUITAR ON ELETRIC.... seriously wtf....

Yes it is.

[SonicThHedgog]

Yes it is.

So tell me, altho your not coordinated enough to play a song on acoustic, you can play it on electric? the only really diffrence is the toughness of the strings, and as outlaw said, not real diffrence, if you suck at one, you suck at the other.

[mickomoo]

That's a blessing in disguise and an excellent reason to give guitar a shot As far as I'm concerned anymore, sheet music is a crutch and sometimes an impediment lying in the way of improvement. Your ear is the most important part of your musical self. Listen to guitar solos, figure out the chords behind it, solo over it yourself, and eventually you'll be able to hear how (and why, as far as theory goes) the guitarist did what he did.

Did I mention I don't really like sheet music?

I stopped reading music 4 years ago, it's really annoying and I have terrible hand eye coordination lol

[SnappleMan]

So tell me, altho your not coordinated enough to play a song on acoustic, you can play it on electric? the only really diffrence is the toughness of the strings, and as outlaw said, not real diffrence, if you suck at one, you suck at the other.

"toughness" of the strings? Considering many acoustic guitarists like to use nylon (or even gut) strings (both of which are easier on your fingers than steel strings), I'd say that your toughness argument falls flat on its ass. Acoustic guitar is harder to play than electric, I know because I play both, and I play both well. The size/shape of the guitar makes a big difference, the accessibility of the top 12 frets is very different between acoustic and electric guitars, and not only that but you can't hide behind distortion when playing acoustic, so you have to be a better player to pull off the same phrases.

[AngelCityOutlaw]

"toughness" of the strings? Considering many acoustic guitarists like to use nylon (or even gut) strings (both of which are easier on your fingers than steel strings), I'd say that your toughness argument falls flat on its ass. Acoustic guitar is harder to play than electric, I know because I play both, and I play both well. The size/shape of the guitar makes a big difference, the accessibility of the top 12 frets is very different between acoustic and electric guitars, and not only that but you can't hide behind distortion when playing acoustic, so you have to be a better player to pull off the same phrases.

Like I said, I play both too. Nearly a decade. With electric, noise is harder to control. There are also techniques that are often used on electric that are not as effective or easy to do on acoustic. The top 12 frets isn't even a challenge for most players with a brain. One might be more uncomfortable to hold for a little while, but you get used to it pretty quickly.

"You have to be a better player to pull of the same phrases." That's BS dude.

They're both the same instrument in most aspects. The big difference is less in how they're played and more about how they produce sound.

If You suck at one, you suck at both.

[Turtle]

So, um, I was debating making a thread about it, but my question would seem to fall under the category of "learning instruments," so here I am.

I've taken piano lessons since about age seven or eight (although there was a period of time where I didn't have any lessons for several months), but for the past year (and probably longer) I've felt that I've hit an impasse. It seems that my skill has not matured much at all for some time. Which isn't to say that I don't know why that is. I know exactly why - I haven't practiced nearly as much as I should, and I'm generally just impatient when I do practice. My question is this: how do I get the most out of my practice time? I've heard "play songs through at a crawl" before, which makes a certain amount of sense. My teacher swore by playing the right and left hands in a song separately, although that never seemed to do much for me. Can anyone recommend ways to exercise my fingers and develop better coordination?

I saw Ectogemia point out that sheet music might be a hindrance rather than a help; is it time I stopped using it?

Or am I over-thinking all of this and do I just need to buckle down and play something as the best way to improve?