Meteo Xavier Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Several people have recommended this book to me, now I'm wondering if anyone here has any personal experience with it. The orchestral people I've asked so far have not used it, yet I was still recommended it here. So I'm just wondering if this book is as wonderful as everyone says it is or if anyone can offer any reasonable insight of why one should or should not get it. This topic comes with the understanding that if I could learn orchestration through local classes or listening to hours of real orchestra, I wouldn't be interested in buying a book on it. Additionally, are there as qualified books that teach other genres, electronica, dance, ethnic, etc? Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanthos Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 I've read the book, and while I still haven't done much to make use of it, the majority of the book is filled with ideas to make virtual orchestration sound as realistic as possible, including chapters on how to mix the orchestra, how to set up a template, and so on. I'd recommend it; it's a nice alternative to starting from scratch with no knowledge and figuring everything out yourself. Don't expect it to be a guide to composing and arranging for an orchestra though; there are better sources for that kind of thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meteo Xavier Posted September 14, 2011 Author Share Posted September 14, 2011 Nah, I have EWQL and I have the composition stuff down pretty much - what I don't have is the production and knowledge to make the two really do something yet. I'm especially interested in learning to make "action cue" music with huge orchestral hits with seemingly all the horns and strings in the orchestra and tub bell and splash cymbal and choir hit all the same notes without it somehow feeling too much. Right now I can do ok with 5-6 orchestral instruments, but I'm trying to join up to the big boys here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuIzA Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 I'd be interested in these resources as well. That and an upgrade orchestral library for Kontakt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meteo Xavier Posted September 14, 2011 Author Share Posted September 14, 2011 What is an "upgrade" orchestral library? There are orchestral libraries for Kontakt currently, some of which NI makes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanthos Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 One that's better quality, has more articulations, ensemble patches for the winds, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omni-Psyence Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 I have not read this book in particular, but I would suggest working through some pre-existing scores piece by piece until you have a practical, working knowledge of how those scores are built. Orchestration is such an incredibly rich topic to be contained in a single tome. As far as the MIDI part is concerned, I'll mimic what Kanthos is saying. If you want more "realism" then you need to nail the timbre and articulations. Also, everything won't just be playing a simple sustain patch the whole way through. It's pretty crucial to learn how every single instrument in the orchestra is played by itself and with others, both from its own family and not. A simple but efficient rule of thumb to go by is the more instruments you use, their parts should be less disparate from one another. Too much contrasting timbres and notes will create a huge mush. The way those pros can use an entire orchestra with ease is because they know how to balance these delicate forces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meteo Xavier Posted September 14, 2011 Author Share Posted September 14, 2011 I have not read this book in particular, but I would suggest working through some pre-existing scores piece by piece until you have a practical, working knowledge of how those scores are built. ... This topic comes with the understanding that if I could learn orchestration through local classes or listening to hours of real orchestra, I wouldn't be interested in buying a book on it. While I didn't specifically mention scores in that, it's part of the same deal there. This isn't a topic on orchestration, this is a topic on this particular book. The question at hand is, "Have you read this particular book, and if so, would you recommend it?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omni-Psyence Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 Well, the principles found in this book are the same as you'll find in any class or study material on orchestration, I'm sorry if I assumed you weren't going to be so picky. There are other books which I have read that were helpful, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meteo Xavier Posted September 15, 2011 Author Share Posted September 15, 2011 I'm not being picky, I'm asking a question with a narrow focus and I get annoyed when people don't listen to that and offer suggestions to things I've already done and I know I don't need. I'm not currently interested in scores, I'm interested in this particular book. Now, if you want to recommend those other books, by all means go for it. That is relevant to what I'm asking. Not trying to be a dick here, but I don't know how much more clear I can make my intentions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuIzA Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 I've searched through that book and through "Acoustic and MIDI Orchestration for the contemporary composer", I ended up going with that instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meteo Xavier Posted September 15, 2011 Author Share Posted September 15, 2011 Hmm... definitely cheaper and looks more suited for beginners (which I still kinda am), but it seems like people are more willing to bitch about this one. Dammit, I don't want to buy two books... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickomoo Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 I remember looking at both books... can't remember the difference now, but what you could do is buy guide to midi orchestration as a reference, and borrow and start with Acoustic and Midi Orchestration from the library or a friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meteo Xavier Posted September 16, 2011 Author Share Posted September 16, 2011 (What friends?) I was actually going to try to find to special order it from my city library as well. One of them has a program of some kind where they order books from other libraries and try that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannthr Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 Score study and mock-up practice--I have my students mock up John Williams with EWQLSO from the signature score--the learn a boat load about instrumentation and I supplement their learning with instruction from Samuel Adlers Study of Orchestration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omni-Psyence Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 Score study and mock-up practice--I have my students mock up John Williams with EWQLSO from the signature score--the learn a boat load about instrumentation and I supplement their learning with instruction from Samuel Adlers Study of Orchestration. I tried to recommend this too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meteo Xavier Posted September 16, 2011 Author Share Posted September 16, 2011 Dan is a college professor in orchestration and working/accomplished composer and he's been mentoring me for a few years now - and his suggestion came with a book recommendation. Thats the difference there. I'd still be interested in what your book recommendations were. Thats what I'm looking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannthr Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 I'm not a Professor, to earn that distinction one must accomplish a great deal more than I have academically. To be clear, I am a part-time instructor at Pinnacle College in LA in their Video Game Sound Design Program which offers both a certificate and an associates degree in game audio (the first of it's kind in the US). It's a cool program and I spend way too much of my free time trying to make it even cooler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kidd Cabbage Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 Dan's very right about both. Mockups of scores are phenomenal for learning what others are doing, and Adler's "The Study of Orchestration" is basically the standard for learning about orchestration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meteo Xavier Posted September 18, 2011 Author Share Posted September 18, 2011 Does it teach you how to compose it in a MIDI orchestration context like the other two do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moomba Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 Does it teach you how to compose it in a MIDI orchestration context like the other two do? Adler's book on orchestration is a book on traditional orchestration. There's no mention of MIDI orchestration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meteo Xavier Posted September 18, 2011 Author Share Posted September 18, 2011 Adler's book on orchestration is a book on traditional orchestration. There's no mention of MIDI orchestration. Then that is not useful to me right now. A good portion of what I'm held back by is the technology itself, so I need to learn it either in the context I will be facilitating it in or at least something resembling it. That's why I'm so stubbornly fixated on the MIDI part of learning it and why studying orchestration and scores by themselves are not useful to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kidd Cabbage Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 When the goal of MIDI orchestration is to make the instruments sound as close to the real things as possible, understanding the real thing is far more important than learning the techniques on how to replicate it. That being said, what are you looking to pick out of the book, if not just orchestration? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meteo Xavier Posted September 18, 2011 Author Share Posted September 18, 2011 When the goal of MIDI orchestration is to make the instruments sound as close to the real things as possible, understanding the real thing is far more important than learning the techniques on how to replicate it. Yeah but I still need to learn how to make my primary means of doing that, MIDI, the root priority, then go that direction. Thats what I'm missing right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShrackAttack Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 I would still recommend picking up Adler's book when you get the money, Meteo. I was going to suggest it, but Dannthr already had. And I bought that midi orchestration book out of curiosity so maybe I'll let you know if its worthwhile in a few weeks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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