The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess "Portal to the Sky"(Midna's Lament)

[GSO]

here it is.

Midna's Lament

& a little of

ballad of the goddess

*current version:

* 2-20-12 update

[Darangen]

Could you link the source? I'm not overly familiar with TP.

[GSO]

version 2(I added a little more variation w/a viola):

[Darangen]

I may not be too familiar with the genre you're aiming for, but it seems to drag out a bit. You've got some variations going on, which is great, but for a 6 minute track it doesn't have enough momentum to keep me interested.

I do like some of the instruments you've chosen, but I think the lead (is it a viola?) definitely needs some love. It's very dry and hard to listen to at times, it also seems to be panned quite a bit with nothing on the other side to compliment it. Could use some more percussive elements too, something to keep in driving a bit more.

I'd definitely recommend shortening the track. It's long at 6 minutes and unless there's some serious progression going on that you just haven't had a chance to add in yet, it could be one of those songs where the listener listens to the first 2 minutes and then skips to the next song. Maybe try interweaving the two sources you've chosen a bit more to keep it interesting?

[GSO]

here's version 3:

Updated:

[Rozovian]

The sound is raw, dry, and mechanical. There's not enough ideas in here for an arrangement this long. You've been having problems like these for a while now, Wolfie, maybe you should practice with a a 30-second remix of something, practice refining a single idea (refining rather than extending), practice humanization and mixing. You'll get there.

[GSO]

took your advice rozo:

[Calum]

took your advice rozo:

It sounds like you've got many many poorly interwoven lines. I would suggest that you do the whole piece on piano. Of course you can have more than just what two hands can play but then you might filter out and be able to hear things a little more clearly. So working outwards from the piano version instead of layering without any ideas about what it really is.

This is a little harsh but i think that would dramatically improve the clarity of your writing.

Keep it up though!

[jordanrooben]

I'm no pro, but I'll do my best. My first thought is that the lead is Extremely dry and harsh. I would try to do something about that. The next thing I could tell is that the song doesn't seem to have any direction. Each instrument feels like it's playing a different song, and the song as a whole kinda' sounds like it's meandering around with no sense of direction or destination. Each section uses the same (or very similar) short melody repeated 3(ish) times and then moves to another section. The plucked strings in the background are nice. It might be a good idea to bring those out more. The instrument you chose for the ballad of the goddess section is nice. Though again, there's no direction. After that section, the end seems forgotten in the sense that it just ends. No outro or effects or anything. Despite it's shortcomings, there's potential for this... if you're willing to put more work on it 'methinks.

[GSO]

version 6(I took out the majority of Ballad of the Goddess. just couldn't make it work):

[Aster]

version 6(I took out the majority of Ballad of the Goddess. just couldn't make it work):

Near the start there are some dissonant notes that seem out of key.

I had to listen to the source and the characteristics that are prominent is how the solid underlying rhythm of the piano is what drives the song. It's the rhythm doing the work to make the melody sound good. You seem to have stripped the rhythm down to focus more on the melody lines so it has an aimless and feel because it's too distant and isolated. Without a solid trustworthy rhythm and very sparse percussion, the mind has issue trying to feel the timing of the song. Quite a few of the notes are out of time on top of this (or if they are in time, it's implied to be different to my ears)

The arpeggios backing the source are shifting resolution/key but your track is static. The counterpoint of the source is lost without them

Take note of how the and when the melody raises pitch in good balance with how the arpeggios lower in pitch. Notice times when both seem to go up and down together.

Listen to how the note play off each other and set your mind up to be tricked out of predicting the future changes.

The song builds a solid contrast that is consistent before the big counterpoint changes so when they kick in and the two hands go their separate ways, the brain is like 'whoaaa' and it's very pleasant sounding.

Melody itself is embellishment. To have good melody, you need to establish a ground to divert away from.

It's like creating tension and choosing a point of release.

Take the notable source points then basically use this template to create a song structure with established and defined progressions.

Run your midi through a quantizer (icr if that's the right name) and fix the timing up to be tighter.

Sorry for what must seem like harsh criticism but I'm trying to do the opposite, what gets measured gets done.

[GSO]

Version 7:

[Darangen]

I think you're getting on the right track with changing up the lead instrument so that it's not doing the same thing over and over.

What you might want to look at next is the supporting tracks. Right now from what I can hear it's one drum (which is doing a great job keeping me confused on the timing) and an oriental sounding plucked instrument. The sounds fit well with the lead, but they're repetitive.

If everything is properly timed, you might want to look at adding more substance so that people have more to follow along with because as this is it's hard to keep up with which instrument is playing in tempo and which ones aren't.

Keep at it though, you're getting better with each version!

[GSO]

version 8:

[GSO]

version 9:

[Darangen]

It's sounding much better now. Still could use more work, but you're definitely on the right track.

The random breaks in the background noises is kinda weird, but that's easily fixable.

The transition near the end is pretty abrupt. I don't know if its the instrument you're switching to being too much of a contrast or if it's that it's alone when you switch it. Try easing into that part a bit more, maybe bringing that instrument in a little earlier playing a harmony or something so that when it does it's own thing it's not so much of a shock?

Getting better every listen

[GSO]

version 10:

[GSO]

version 11:

[GSO]

version 12:

[Darangen]

You should put a link to the most current version in the first post to make it easier for the mods

[Rozovian]

mod rev:

PRODUCTION

- Too quiet - way too quiet

- Unrealistic sequencing - can't hear any humanization in the lead

PERFORMANCE (live recorded audio/MIDI parts)

- Timing not tight enough - the ending especially, the style allows for a loose timing... but not that loose.

STRUCTURE

- Lacks coherence overall (no "flow") - it doesn't go anywhere

- Not enough changes in sounds (eg. static texture, not dynamic enough) - but not a big deal here, there's dynamics to the writing that changes it enough imo.

- Pace too plodding - probably a symptom of the lack of flow

- Too repetitive - the result of not going anywhere and not changing in sound much

There's some nice writing in some of the strings parts, and aside from perhaps needing a touch of reverb or some velocity tweaks the metallic background percussion works well. You're _still_ having those same problems I brought up before, tho. Even when the writing is okay, the instruments sound mechanical. Humanize.

[GSO]

I'll get right on that lol

[GSO]

mod rev:

PRODUCTION

- Too quiet - way too quiet

- Unrealistic sequencing - can't hear any humanization in the lead

PERFORMANCE (live recorded audio/MIDI parts)

- Timing not tight enough - the ending especially, the style allows for a loose timing... but not that loose.

STRUCTURE

- Lacks coherence overall (no "flow") - it doesn't go anywhere

- Not enough changes in sounds (eg. static texture, not dynamic enough) - but not a big deal here, there's dynamics to the writing that changes it enough imo.

- Pace too plodding - probably a symptom of the lack of flow

- Too repetitive - the result of not going anywhere and not changing in sound much

There's some nice writing in some of the strings parts, and aside from perhaps needing a touch of reverb or some velocity tweaks the metallic background percussion works well. You're _still_ having those same problems I brought up before, tho. Even when the writing is okay, the instruments sound mechanical. Humanize.

PRODUCTION

- Too quiet - way too quiet~ I'd like to think I fixed that:-)

PERFORMANCE (live recorded audio/MIDI parts)

- Timing not tight enough~Fixed

STRUCTURE

- Lacks coherence overall (no "flow") - it doesn't go anywhere~hopefully fixed

- Not enough changes in sounds (eg. static texture, not dynamic enough) - but not a big deal here, there's dynamics to the writing that changes it enough imo.

- Pace too plodding - probably a symptom of the lack of flow~hopefully fixed

- Too repetitive - the result of not going anywhere and not changing in sound much~hopefully fixed

Humanizing: is there some way I could do more humanizing without deleting what I have? I tried the auto humanize feature of my program(presonus studio one) and it doesn't seem to be doing a lot. like you said I need to humanize more

I don't just slap stuff together anymore. as a result of that, I don't really go overboard with the instruments. If you need an example of the major influence of my style for this remix, check out Tattered Slippers by Darkesword.

version 13:

[Rozovian]

Humanizing: is there some way I could do more humanizing without deleting what I have? I tried the auto humanize feature of my program(presonus studio one) and it doesn't seem to be doing a lot. like you said I need to humanize more

Auto-humanizing doesn't work. Unless it let's you pick a groove yourself, it's probably just a randomizer. Humans don't play random. Imperfections may be random, but that's not the part of human performance you wanna emphasize. With velocity and subtle timing changes, you should create a mood through emphasis.

As for Darke's mix, it's a good choice for an influence. Yours doesn't quite sound the same. Figure out what exactly makes it different. Study the nuances, the details, the nitpicks. How strong are the note attacks? Does an instrument sound muffled? Can you hear the reverbs? The writing is obviously different, but try to focus on the sound.

I'll listen later.

[Darangen]

Auto-humanization doesn't really work, like Rozo said. I saw you posting in the samples post in the production forum asking for a humanization vst, I don't know of any that exist let alone any that do the job right.

Humanizing sequenced parts is a bit tedious at times, but it definitely pays off. Here's how I do some of mine:

- One way to get the velocities to show those small changes is to actually play the part on a midi controller.

- Picture in your head how someone would play the part live. Some examples would be a guitarist sliding from one note to another here and there, or a flautist stopping to take a breath in between notes. You're not going to have a constant, steady and static stream of notes from any live instrument.

- If your samples don't support velocity triggered differences, play with some volume and modulation automation. The best thing to do to start out with that is just start playing around with the modulation and any other parameters you can play with to see what they do. Maybe one will modify the frequency and harshness of the viola's trill (or whatever they call it when the hand is shaking on the string to cause a vibrato). That's a great way to humanize in many cases.

If you have questions about Darke's mixes, send him a PM, ask him about it. He's always been extraordinarily helpful to me whenever I've had questions for him, and he's definitely someone worth listening to.