Green + Emerald Hill Zone: Tips to Improve My Mix?

[Etherealurtz]

I recently submitted this mix, which got rejected (though I expected that, this was an amateur mix after all, made by someone who's not ever a professional yet):

http://youtu.be/FhOsDksM9gk

Sources:

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Here are some of the comments from the OCRemix people:

1. What I like about this track ishow you changed around the chord structure to give the melody a very different feeling. There are some arrangement ideas along with that that are pretty strong; 2:00 stands out in particular as a pretty neat area. There are some areas that don't work as well, too. The beginning is pretty harsh, I think there's something not quite in the right key, or something going on there that just doesn't sound right. I'd take a closer look at that to see if you can figure out what's going on with that.

The biggest thing though; Where's the bass? There is pretty much no low end to serve as a structure for the mix, and it's really disconcerting. That's a must fix to begin with. Once that's there, I'd look pretty much at all your synths, which honestly are all very weak and thin. I'd look for some replacements that will help beef up your sound, and also look into layering some instruments to help reinforce things.

This one needs some work, but there's promise in your arrangement. Use our WIP boards to get some more advice.

2. Deia hit this one pretty well. the opening definitely sounds weird, not sure exactly how to explain it, but it's awkward. there's some wonky notes in the emerald hill theme that comes in at 1:34 too. production-wise, I agree that it needs more low-end, and overall the mixing felt compressed and muddy. you can probably clear out a lot of unused frequencies in your EQ's and get a lot more clarity from your sounds, which aren't bad. pretty cool overall, and promising, but those weird off-key notes (perhaps a theory J can provide more insight into those) and the mixing needs to be addressed to make it on OCR. hope to hear from you again.

3. Oof. Disliked the lead at :01 immediately. It was such a generic sounding saw, and was just unplesant to listen to.

I can't stress enough that this isn't a personal affront, but this was horrible imbalanced mixing here. This was a cluttered mess that completely underminded the energy laid out in the arrangement. There were too many generic, untreated electrosynths, a super-fake FL Slayer guitar cameo at 1:53, off-key melodies, and generally indistinct instrumentation.

Mixing-wise, the saw lead (didn't like it) and rhythm guitars (good power and energy there though) were simply buried, and the only reason the background was filled out was because the cymbal crashes were steamrolling over everything else in back. None of the parts were properly EQed to seperate anything, so all of the instruments were just bleeding into each other and sound muddy and lossy. The overall levels were too low as well.

I hate to be so negative, but this was a cluttered, messy production nightmare. One of the few things that sounded pleasant were the belltones, but they're supposed to just be an accent, yet they're the loudest thing in the track by far. Other parts that were too loud compared to everything else were the Emerald Hill lead at 1:28, and the screechy synth brought in at :56 & 2:20, which was just abrasive and annoying.

You have some positive comments on YouTube that don't have an ear for polished work. Don't let those people with no critical ear hype you up and make you think you don't have anything left to learn.

Park yourself HERE and HERE, ask a LOT of questions and get better at choosing cohesive sounds and giving your instruments an appropriate sense of space. This place isn't the be-all-end-all for creating music, but if you stick around here, you'll become a better hobbyist musician in time.

You have decent ideas for this arrangement, Mark, and it's clear you're attempting to create your own approach to these themes. Although the usage of the Green Hill and Emerald Hill themes was pretty coverish and could use some more melodic interpretation, you definitely added that Generations-style rock flavor to it and tried to personalize the approach through the overall energy, the instrumentation choices and cohesively-written original sections. But none of that potential matters when the mixing is jacked up.

That said, according to WillRock, you could be the next OCR all-star. That's nice coming from an all-star like Will, who ALSO used to not be able to make cohesive music, despite getting lots of praise on YouTube. So be like Will, channel this criticism towards improvement and keep at it!

So I'd like to ask for some tips on improving the mix I am limited to VST's and FL Studio in the meantime, so no real instruments please >.<

Do give me your opinions on how I can improve my mix, and instruments that I can use/replace to make it sound better and improve my overall skill as a music maker.

[Gario]

Oh hey there, man. Yeah, I actually heard the discussion behind this mix - there's certainly a mixed opinion, there.

Well, since you're here, these are my thoughts on the track.

The arrangement is actually pretty good. I thought that the lead into the Sonic 2's Emerald Hill zone was excellent, and bookending it with Sonic's Green Hill zone was perfect - that makes for a great overall structure to follow. The synth solos were also a nice touch. It could be better, from a OCR standpoint, seeing that when the source is in there it's pretty much stated verbatim. While repeating something verbatim isn't bad, you do it a little too much in this track; at 2:48, for example, you repeat the same ideas as you did earlier in the piece. People have heard this idea before, there's no reason not to really have fun with the melody. The FO ending is also a bit of a cop-out ending - run through the Sonic 1 idea one more time with some improvisation and embellishment and then end the song with something conclusive. Right now it sounds as if it's incomplete.

That section that you feel isn't right is different from the source. The guitar part should be a minor sixth lower (or a major third higher) than it is right now match the source. Personally I don't mind it, actually, but you didn't like it so that's how to correct it.

The mixing is pretty abysmal. I know there are good ideas in this, but the drums drown everything in a sea of crashes that just cut everything out. The melodies are hidden behind the guitar rhythms, and the texture bits that should be more in the background often pierce instead. The mixing is one of the biggest issues that this track holds, right now.

The samples are certainly a bit on the plain side, and I'm the wrong person to ask about getting better samples (I use Reason, so I don't need to use different synths and such). However, there are places on here that could help you find more samples (more free samples, too, I'm sure), and plenty of people that know where else to look, so feel free to ask around and look for more tools for your music. There are also plenty of people on here that love to work on arrangements with others, so if you want a particular instrument or something for someone to supply for you then feel free and search for members that specialize in the instrument in question, log on frequently AND are willing to collaborate - you might just find someone who's willing to give your mix something special.

Those are my thoughts on your mix - arrangement could use a little work, the samples are plain, but most importantly the mixing buries your music to almost make it unlistenable, so first and foremost fix the mixing so the music and soundscape are clear. Hopefully that sends you in the right direction.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and don't forget to put the song you're arranging in your title + source in your post. It makes things easier for people who want to comment on your track.

[Jean Of mArc]

Hey Etherealurtz!

Thanks for sharing this track! You've got some pretty cool ideas. I will say that the arrangement itself is actually quite strong:

- The supporting harmonies are pretty unique and don't follow the original to a T... and they work quite well, for the most part. You've given the melodies a different flavour, and it works. There are some moments where the combination of melody/harmony creates some dissonance, but I personally think that good dissonance can be used to create better music, as long as it resolves well, and in your case I think it works pretty well, so I won't say much about that. Others might have a problem with certain areas though...

- The mixing of two entirely different tunes is done VERY well here. Mixing two different melodies is something a lot of people have trouble with, but you pretty much nailed the movement from Green Hill to Emerald City, so great job on that.

- The solo at the 1:00 mark is a nice addition to make it "your own".

- The "bells" sound you use is pretty cool, because it really sounds like the Sonic "get rings" sound effect. It might be a little loud, but it sounds nice, so good work there.

- I like the way you make the melody your own a bit at 2:00. Definitely some cool ideas.

Now, I'm no expert when it comes to production or synths, so I can't say much about that. However, here are some things that stood out to me:

- The crashing cymbals are overwhelming. I've heard some professionally-released music that had obsessive crashes cymbals, but don't follow their terrible example in that department. It just drowns out all the other hard work you've done. If you want lots of crash, that's fine, but make sure we can still hear what else is going on clearly.

- As others have mentioned, the bass seems absent. This is to your advantage, because adding a bass will improve your mix a lot, yet production-wise shouldn't be too difficult to achieve. Just take some time to make sure they match up with your harmonies and you should be fine.

- Rather than a synth lead, have you thought of maybe an electric guitar lead? VSTs should work fine. You can use the synths if you prefer, but's just an idea that would work well for this kind of music. Either way, the lead should (almost) always come out more than anything else. That's pretty much a golden rule.

- At about 2:43 my ears start bleeding with how high the synths go... but I must admit it does make for a good climax.

- After the climax there, there is a bit of a drop at about 2:46. Given how high-energy the rest of the song was, you could probably allow this drop to last a bit longer and it would make for a good break. Not too long, just another bar or two. Almost every high-energy song has a breaking point. If you were really adventurous, you could break it down completely and then build it back up over a few bars.

- Although bringing it back to Green Hill at the end makes sense, I don't recommend doing a perfect repeat of the opening and then fading out... it sounds a bit "cheap" as an ending. Rather, make it THE ending. As in, find a way to turn Green Hill into an effective ending. This usually involves drawing out some notes longer, longer chords, and some altered chords to make it more of a cadence.

I really think you've got some solid ideas here, and it's a pretty rockin' tune already. Just needs some tweaks to really make it what it was meant to be.

[Zerothemaster]

Just a quick word, and maybe this has been addressed already...

But I would take those cymbals and make them hats, and variate between open and closed. It would add to the piece a lot.

[Etherealurtz]

Thank you for the replies everybody!

I must admit that I am truly still weak in the mixing field, because I am limited to FL Studio's capabilities - I have no means to do real mixing. Still, a lot of tutorials out there talk about professional mixing on FL Studio, so I'll give that a try sometime and focus on mixing first before I release any new projects.

Therefore, I might just leave this song for now, since it's actually in another PC used by my dad, the mix file I mean, and transferring it to this laptop is a bother due to the VST's associated with it.

So therefore I will take all your tips, but I will put them to use on a new composition. Keep the tips and criticisms coming

[Gario]

Hmm, there are plenty of people on here that mix only using what's available on FL Studio. I mean, there's a mixer window in your program, right? That's all you need to mix with - that represents all the options that you'd have on mixing hardware. You just need to learn how to use it, is all. I think Zircon talks about it in this tutorial (actually, all his tutorials are pretty good - you should check them out sometime).

In short, FL Studios has all the tools you need to mix the track properly - you just need to get used to the program and learn all the nuances with it.