OMF 2097 Theme remix

[lazerblade]

Original:

Latest version: https://dl.dropbox.com/s/29yf0zww955pyoz/World%20Of%20Potential.mp3

Original post:

I normally wait until a track has a lot more polish and development on it before sharing it, but this one has me really excited for whatever reason. Thus, I'm posting a really raw unmastered mix whose interpretation is not 100% realized yet.

To this day this track remains one of my favorite videogame tracks of all time by a composer that was a huge influence to me. So yea, I have a lot to measure up to in this remix.

I had a few ideas, and then had a few really interesting sounding accidents that helped get the idea for this interpretation going. This is an unusual style for me, but that is part of what makes it spontaneous and creative I think.

BTW, Is it usual/preferred to wait until a remix is pretty close to done before starting a thread, or are long, in-depth WIP threads cool too?

Edited April 10, 2013 by lazerblade

[timaeus222]

It doesn't matter. People have posted unfinished arrangements before, and it works out.

The intro sounds like a beginning to an electronica/big beat track to me, but you went a completely different direction with that cello-thing. xD I think that acid arp might have too much in the 300-500Hz range, but only by about 1-2dB.

0:45 - the lead is pretty interesting, some nice PWM stuff. Try adding vibrato on that. Also, lower the extent of the LFO by about 4% so that the PWM effect isn't as dramatic.

0:58 - the drums should be different here, as it sounds like a small bridge. Maybe high passed or band passed? The tail of the lead there is great, but I would prefer a longer tail there on the pitch drop.

1:12 isn't quite as effective as I would imagine you wanted. Needs another sound to accompany it, and possibly the arp could be twice as fast?

1:30 - Great lead there, but maybe the vibrato needs a longer delay before it comes in. See if you can do that in the LFO module. Hopefully there's a Delay button (more like attack).

Sounds good so far, keep it up.

[lazerblade]

Yea, I still had a lot of EQing to do. A lot of that(and other mixing) is done in this new version though:

(deprecated link removed)

I ended up opting for just adding more pitch bend to the first lead, since I didn't feel that vibrato really suited it. Plus, I wanted the vibrato on the big lead to really stick out. I also changed the 303 arp to a faster more standard one and added another subtle instrument to the part at about 1:12.

Tweaking the vibrato on the big lead was a cinch. I usually do my vibrato by routing an LFO controller from my DAW to the pitch bend controller on the synth and then automating the power of its effect. This lets me draw whatever kinds of curves I need without worrying about envelopes or anything.

Working title announcement of remix get! It will be "World Of Potential."

Edited April 1, 2013 by lazerblade

[timaeus222]

Cool, good idea with the LFO controller on a pitch knob. My MIDI keyboard does have a pitch wheel of course, but it's hard to record pitch bends on it because it has a spring-type thing that brings it back to center every time, so it "clicks" as it passes center.

That's why I tend to use LFO modules. I can just adjust the rhythm and it's always synched to the tempo. Then I can automate the LFO rate if I want, without having to record it in live, where mistakes can happen that delay that perfect recording. There's also that need to fix LFOs later, and if you record it in live, it tends to be tough to fix it since if you don't have a Delay feature in an existing LFO module, you don't have a way to adjust how early or late the LFO comes into full effect.

Of course, remember that there's a lot of uses for LFO. Most people use it on pitch, but you can also make it a wider LFO that reaches more than just a whole or half step for more dramatic vibratos.

I noticed you adjusted the strings. Unfortunately now they sound pretty fake. If you can, make the attack shorter, and the release slightly longer. I think spiccato-ish strings might work better there. 0:58 - just personal taste---you could make it last even longer, and then automate the volume down. Or, even better, you could automate just the dry signal down, and it'll sound even cooler.

1:12 - still sounds a bit bare there. Sounds good on its own, but it would be way better if something else was playing alongside it. Perhaps a resonant sweeping digital filter?

The drums overall seem to be on autopilot to me. I don't hear a lot of fills. Additionally, the kick and snare are quite weak. Needs more layering on the fundamentals (80-140Hz for the kick, 200-300Hz for the snare), and some saturation to add some more power.

1:16 - Here's where it gets really muddy. I tend to do this, so maybe it'll help if you do a notch in the EQ in the bass exactly where the kick lies, so that the kick has some more room to breathe. You could also high pass the 3o3 arp to accommodate. Or, you could automate a high pass by automating an EQ band's frequency. Recently I started automating EQ bands to adjust to certain sections in a song.

1:47 doesn't seem to be gelling to me. I'm sure you'll polish it a bit more, but I just wanted to mention that.

Edited February 13, 2013 by timaeus222

[lazerblade]

I just now realized the problem with the strings. They actually weren't meant to be realistic strings except in the intro, but they aren't stylized or realistic enough to work.

The mud is probably coming from the synth guitar I added, which really doesn't fit or improve the sound. That is just something else that shows this track is missing something, and I need to find what it is. In order to get this off the ground, I think that is the key. It will increase the length, fill in the sound, help clarify the interpretation, and hook the listener.

I haven't really gotten to work on improving the drums and transitions yet. I think I'm going to need to change a lot in the next few WIP's before I update again, but I'm really liking the direction this is taking.

[timaeus222]

I figured I'd show you what I thought your mix first sounded like:

http://zirconstudios.bandcamp.com/track/shadows-feat-jillian-aversa

[lazerblade]

I figured I'd show you what I thought your mix first sounded like:

http://zirconstudios.bandcamp.com/track/shadows-feat-jillian-aversa

Aw shux, the idea that I'm giving even slightly reminiscent feelings of Zircon makes me feel all fuzzy inside.

The interesting mistake I mentioned was that arp/string/bassline combo. It's funny that Shadows is in my favorites playlist but I still came up with those sounds by choosing some wrong presets by accident while working on the arrangement. Maybe I decided to keep them because they reminded me of Shadows.

And, at the risk of getting off topic: is my Zircon influence really that dominant compared to my others, or are you just as obsessed with Zircon as I am?

[lazerblade]

Time for another update. There are enough changes that I won't bother listing them. While the arrangement still needs a bit of work, the issue that really stuck out to me in this version was the kick, so know that I'm going to be fixing that. There are a few subtle audio glitches(first time ever my machine has had CPU almost maxed out working audio) but its not anything serious or anything that would make it into the final submission.

(deprecated link removed)

Edited April 1, 2013 by lazerblade

[timaeus222]

Aw shux, the idea that I'm giving even slightly reminiscent feelings of Zircon makes me feel all fuzzy inside.

The interesting mistake I mentioned was that arp/string/bassline combo. It's funny that Shadows is in my favorites playlist but I still came up with those sounds by choosing some wrong presets by accident while working on the arrangement. Maybe I decided to keep them because they reminded me of Shadows.

And, at the risk of getting off topic: is my Zircon influence really that dominant compared to my others, or are you just as obsessed with Zircon as I am?

lol, it's not all that dominant, it just happened to pop in my head when I heard this.

Time for another update. There are enough changes that I won't bother listing them. The issue that really stuck out to me in this version was the kick, so know that I'm going to be fixing that. There are a few subtle audio glitches(first time ever my machine has had CPU almost maxed out working audio) but its not anything serious or anything that would make it into the final submission.

https://dl.dropbox.com/s/qlijb9c1irbnphb/World%20Of%20Potential%20-%20wip10.mp3

I'm still noticing the fake-y sound of the strings, especially at 0:27. Maybe someone can collab to replace that, or maybe you can somehow find some better sounding ones, or maybe you can adjust the attack on some sort of internal amplitude envelope?

I think the snare is still being obscured a little by the non-percussive instruments. Don't be afraid of maxing out the volume on the kick and snare, and then compressing them using a nice punchy compressor VST. The kick itself is a bit bassy still, as you might have noticed. I heard When Alien Drum Robots Attack and Platinum Percussion could have some good drum samples (Platinum Percussion does have some stuff for world music that I love to use).

A lot of the instruments you're currently using could benefit greatly from more reverb. Not so they will have a longer decays necessarily, but just so they sound like they're in a room that's a little more ambient than how it sounds now.

1:46 - I'm not sure if you meant that arp to be that loud, but it sounds like you meant it to be softer than that, because it's an arp lead at 2:04. Maybe you could lower the velocities until it becomes a lead? Velocity response is crucial for humanized music!

So... a lot of your sound design choices are good, but it still feels like you could have more variety in them. I think there's about 8 instruments, but it would be interesting with even more, even just filler effects or something to make the soundscape a little richer. The arrangement could also use a little more creativity; a lot of the song sounds a little similar throughout in terms of the energy. My general rule of thumb is if I were to scroll through the song, say, 15 seconds at a time, I should be able to distinguish where I am in the song without looking at the time stamp. If that is true, then it means your song is dynamic enough to retain people's attention.

Edited February 15, 2013 by timaeus222

[lazerblade]

To clarify, is it the cello or the other strings that sound fake? IMO they both did.

Anyway, here is a new update in which, among other things, I went through parts of my sample collection that I'd been telling myself I should dig into and put together a more elaborated kick and snare and did some fun envelope/volume automation stuff with the cello. Now in the mix I'm at that point where you're teasing the edge of awesome ambient power vs horrible mud.

(deprecated link removed)

Edited April 1, 2013 by lazerblade

[timaeus222]

To clarify, is it the cello or the other strings that sound fake? IMO they both did.

Both, but the strings were more obvious.

Hm... The snare sounds a bit too vinyl for this mix. It has a short tail, too. When it plays rolls, it sounds especially bad. Try to go for more low end punch with some layering. The second snare sound from a bit over halfway was okay, but it sounded kind of acoustic. You're at that fine line between too vinyl and too acoustic. Both are sounding buried, still.

The kick is a little better, but you can do even better. It's still buried as well.

At this point, the lead with the most vibrato sounds too loud, and it's pushing every other instrument back.

[lazerblade]

Oops. I screwed up the automation on the lead volume. This version = more work on kicks/snares and better mixing/mastering. I'm debating as to whether I should use a clipper or not. Is it an accepted standard, or can I get by without it? I like to keep mastering to a minimum.

(deprecated link removed)

At this point I'm getting worried(probably unneccessarily) that this interpretation is too similar to the original. Sure I'm still probably going to add more fill FX and variations, but I'm not sure it's different enough at the core.

Edited April 1, 2013 by lazerblade

[timaeus222]

Hm. The new snare sounds good. I would have introduced it starting at 0:28, though, not earlier. It didn't feel right to me, at least. Maybe hi hats to replace those before 0:28?

I don't get it, the snare is still buried in the busier parts. Are you using hard knee limiting? Are your volume knobs in the step sequencer window at 100% for your drums? Those knobs control the dominance of your instruments.

[lazerblade]

I replaced the snare with hats and then started it with a hipass filtersweep to bring it in and help emphasize the buildup to the full beat intro. I'm using a soft knee compressor on the snares, but a hard knee limiter on the master. Since the snare is a layer of three samples, each of them is on a different track with a different volume. The loudest is at 100% volume though, and they are all piped through the same FX rack.

I've boosted the volume of the snares(maybe too much) via their FX rack and added my favorite reverse clap fill sample in several places, as well as doing a bit more subtle volume automation on the cello to make sure it's the right amount subconsciously notable at the right times.

It's at the point where it sounds really sweet to me, except that the snare seems a bit loud. That might just be my not wanting to give up my original idea of a really soft snare influencing my ears, but knowing what more experienced ears say is the point of feedback.

https://dl.dropbox.com/s/ja59n4hy8182ext/World%20Of%20Potential%20-%20wip13.mp3

[timaeus222]

Yep, exactly what I was thinking of with the snares that were there before 0:28! The snares sound loud enough now, and I can hear them.

The 1:15 reverse claps work great.

I'm not sure what's going on at 1:46.5. The lead is un-detuning itself or something right before 1:47 and it feels weird.

At this point, I feel you just need to work on humanizing your sounds and fixing little details. EQ sounds OK. It could be better, but it's getting there.

Edited February 18, 2013 by timaeus222

[Argle]

Lots of low-mid clutter when everything is going. I'm leaning towards the cello sound as the main offender, but the bass and kick aren't EQ'd optimally either.

[lazerblade]

Okay, this version has improved EQ. The cello was indeed too strong in the low/mid freqs, so that and other things are fixed. I've also fixed the dysfunctional sustained note before the jam. I was originally trying to pitch-bend it, but eventually went for just a volume automation fade instead.

Yes, this has a small audio glitch in it, but since it's a WIP and I'm tired of retaking I'll leave it for now.

https://dl.dropbox.com/s/q9o5t5qii11z0sz/World%20Of%20Potential%20-%20wip14.mp3

If it still needs humanization, I could use tips or places to get tips for that. I can add vibrato, timing, staccato vs legato, pitch bend, the occasional volume automation, etc, but that's about it as far as stuff I've done before. Do I need more of these, something new, or is it organic enough already?

[timaeus222]

Well, your bass waveform looks pretty close to how it looks on a more professionally produced song with that type of bass. Good sign.

Definitely sounds cleaner in the low end. 1:05 has some sort of organ playing, but it's quiet. Did you want it that quiet? 1:46 sounds normal now. If you really feel like it, I would recommend automating EQ bands to lower unnecessary frequencies in the busier parts, like 1:32, 2:02, etc. Then when that section is over, you can just automate them back to where they were. That way it'll sound cleaner at that section, and then still sound normal before and after that section.

I can hear the snare the whole time now too. The hard knee limiting on the master is what is making some of the stuff hitting the limiter duck a little bit much, but it's negligible at the moment. That's why I asked if you did soft knee or hard knee limiting.

The ending needs a little more work, but not much is necessary.

Humanization is needed on the strings if you can with what you have. If you have anything organic you feel you should add, go ahead. Remember that organic can just be non-synthetic-like, rather than real. i.e. bells can be called organic, and so can wah clavinets.

[lazerblade]

With this version I'm upping the status to finished. The main thing I'm unsure about is the ending, which does seem a bit plain now that it was mentioned. I kind of like the fact that it trails off and ends with the arp though.

Updates to this one are really subtle. I automated up the volume of the organ for the parts it is playing without another lead, as I use it to fill in the sound when they're playing. I also tweaked the end a bit and lengthened some of the notes in the string section to give it a more varied or human sound.

https://dl.dropbox.com/s/2lmwxdbhzmdbd6k/World%20Of%20Potential%20-%20wip15.mp3

I don't want to wimp out right at the end or settle for the mediocre, but my creative juices are only dripping at this point. Does it need something else I should wait on inspiration for, or does it just need fixes to bring it up to par?

Edited February 19, 2013 by lazerblade

[timaeus222]

Sounds okay on my bad earphones (not home right now), but the ending just needs a few more notes on the arp to end it. You ended it on a weird note, basically. Maybe another note one whole step up from the current last one, bare minimum.

[lazerblade]

Then mod review it is. Here I've added an extra note on the end using the root chord, thus resolving on the root of the key. I'm not 100% confident on that note, but it's solid enough IMO.

Linky:

https://dl.dropbox.com/s/aqam0px9eb3oo5n/World%20Of%20Potential%20-%20wip16.mp3

[Flexstyle]

Well, gosh, since you asked nicely. Not trying to be harsh, here, just being honest!

<MODREVIEW>

First impressions:

- Love that little sine arpeggio you start off with. Reminds me of some stuff from Animusic.

- Alright, there's a fairly basic bass, but ya never know.

- Hrm, string samples are really fake-sounding to me. They just don't really fit in with the synthetic vibe you established at first, either.

- You waited about 50-ish seconds before really bring the main melody in, with not a lot of anything exciting going on before that, not sure that's a great idea.

- Actually, a lot of your sound choices are reminding me of Animusic.

- Everything is really dry-sounding. Very little in the way of ambience.

- Ending with the sine arpeggio is a safe choice, but the way it was executed doesn't really make the song sound like a complete entity.

Right, time for some explanation and dissertation. The overall feeling I get from this track is that it's (a) very close to the original source, and ( suffers from poor sound selection a lot of the time.

I've already mentioned the strings as being off, but I'm really not a fan of that bass, either. It could be used effectively, but not with the bassline you have written for it or with the percussion you've chosen to use. It's super-dry, and it's rather heavy in the midrange, rather than the actual bass spectrum. You can get away with that if your kick is quite low in the bass spectrum, but in this case your kick and bassline are fighting each other for space in the mix.

The mix hasn't got very good separation of the stereo field--you've got a good stereo effect on the main lead, and a bit of stereo delay on the sine effect (did I mention how much I like that sine sound?), but everything else is crammed right in the middle of my head (I'm on headphones). Let the mix breath a bit--at least introduce some stereo detuning or something!

The drum patterns you've used aren't terribly varied. It's the same pattern over and over and over again with one or two fills. Switch it up, man! Also, don't introduce all the percussive elements at once. Bring the hats in and out to manage tension and signify different parts of the assignment. Oh, speaking of signifying different parts of the assignment, I don't know if I heard a single crash cymbal in there. Not that you have to have crashes, per se, but either a crash or a white-noise sweep of some sort will really help signify the different parts of the song. As it stands, everything kinds blurs together and I'm at the end of the song going, "Wait, where was everything?"

I'm not sure I dig the organ-esque synth, either. That's also a bit too dry-sounding, and I'm not sure it fits into the mix very well. Basically, you're crowding the mid-range (off the top of my head, I'd guess between 200hz-4000hz). You can fix that by either VERY VERY careful EQ tuning, or just modifying your arrangement so that not every instrument in that frequency range is playing at the same time. In the digital music world, half the mix is done in the arrangement alone.

So, in summary, you need to vary your patterns for drums and bassline so they don't get boring. You need to clean up your soundset so that it fills up the stereo field a lot better, as well as dealing with the midrange EQ clutter. Finally, I'd really work on the arrangement. Let me know that this is a song, and not just some patterns thrown together.

Really sorry to have to throw the book at you like this, but I do think this needs a lot of work. Best of luck, and feel free to bother me over Skype or AIM or whatever (details on my profile) as you're working!

</MODREVIEW>

[lazerblade]

Really sorry to have to throw the book at you like this, but I do think this needs a lot of work.

You don't have to apologize. I knew what I was getting myself into: a chance to get some serious critique and learn what needed improved. I needed somebody to just lay into this and give me a ton of data as you did.

I think I need to find the style for this track. A big part of the problem is that my habitual style is very progressive, but I want this track to be a lot more organic. That is something that I'm going to have to work for since it deviates from my usual conventions.

[timaeus222]

I think I need to find the style for this track. A big part of the problem is that my habitual style is very progressive, but I want this track to be a lot more organic. That is something that I'm going to have to work for since it deviates from my usual conventions.

There's nothing in your style that's hindering this. You probably just don't have all the instruments you want in your arsenal. Whenever you want something, you probably don't have it yet. KVRAudio it up.

[lazerblade]

There's nothing in your style that's hindering this.

Eh... I've got 2+ years of EDM production in my XP bag, and most of it was very progressive. I'm talking about my general style in terms of repeating pattern layer based tracks vs organic song style tracks, not the style of this particular track. It's a very different way of thinking about and perceiving a musical work for me, and I don't quite understand the style I want for this track on the level that I do others.

I have to admit that I'm itching to pick up some more pro orchestral sounds. I like the orchestral + electronic style that shows up in a lot of cyberpunk movies and games. Unfortunately, I had to spend six months saving just to pick up my Oxygen 61, so I might just do more synth hacking to create some highly stylized but very organic instruments for now.