Flashback - 'Inside Enemy Territory' [Main Theme] by Timaeus (Film Score Style)

[timaeus222]

This was a request from LuigiBlood/KiiroBomber, and he wanted me to do a film score style remix, so this is my take on it. First fully orchestral song I've ever written, but I'm feeling pretty good about it. Mini-story:

Conrad B. Hart figures out where the aliens are hiding, and he's been captured in a dungeon in Paradise Club. He finds his gun and escapes the dungeon (0:58). He then goes on a search to find the aliens (1:17). Eventually he finds a teleporter that leads him to the planet Morphs (1:36). Conrad finds a prisoner and attempts to free him, but a Morph kills the prisoner before he can save him. Conrad manages to get the prisoner's weapon and diary, and sets out to destroy what's called the "Master Brain" (1:56). The battle ensues against the aliens (2:14). Conrad then escapes Morphs via a spacecraft, looking back as it explodes (2:38). He writes a message in the spacecraft's journal (3:17). Quick look back at Morphs as it explodes (3:36).

Inspired by Stephen Anderson. Took 6 days in total, 25 hours project time.

ReMix: https://soundcloud.com/timaeus222/inside-enemy-territory

Source:

[LuigiBlood]

This is a very cool remix. I'm glad I have requested that to you.

I think I'll listen to it for a while ^^'

[timaeus222]

Thanks! I had a lot of fun doing this.

[jane]

Dude that's hot. I love the tunes from Flashback. When I was first getting into recording I tried to do a bit of a medley and totally messed everything up 'cos, lol, I didn't know what I was doing. You have inspired me to go have another crack with your sick work, doe.

[Neifion]

I like this. Smooth and very chill.

Flutes sounded kind of fake, especially at 0:54 and when you do the trills at 1:25 and 3:06. I felt like I could almost see the keys being pressed.

Strings also sounded fake ever since their introduction at 0:58. There's no noticeable dynamics; no expression dynamics or changes in vibrato intensity/frequency, and I felt like such could have been put to good use. Also, the same-note rebow at 1:02 sounds very noticeably fake, like you literally just took your finger off the key and then hit it again. Some natural rebow dynamics followed by a gradual swell throughout the rest of the sustain might work. In addition, many of the notes overlap too much so that we get a fake-sounding slur instead of a natural legato, such as at 1:03.

The brass beginning at 1:39 sounds like you may have used a single articulation and didn't shape the dynamics by hand. This is especially noticeable at 2:00 onward, and really rears its head at the brief staccatos at 2:08 and 2:35 and the soprano sustains starting at 2:22.

The electronic parts of the song are really good; not much to comment on there. Some of the glitching and effects remind me of Geometry Wars, which totally gets the blood pumping. Not sure about calling this song fully orchestral since it makes liberal use of electronic instruments, but again, pretty good overall. Just needs work on the orchestral stuff, mainly introducing more realism and dynamics to the instruments.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Neifion

[timaeus222]

I like this. Smooth and very chill.

Flutes sounded kind of fake, especially at 0:54 and when you do the trills at 1:25 and 3:06. I felt like I could almost see the keys being pressed.

Strings also sounded fake ever since their introduction at 0:58. There's no noticeable dynamics; no expression dynamics or changes in vibrato intensity/frequency, and I felt like such could have been put to good use. Also, the same-note rebow at 1:02 sounds very noticeably fake, like you literally just took your finger off the key and then hit it again. Some natural rebow dynamics followed by a gradual swell throughout the rest of the sustain might work. In addition, many of the notes overlap too much so that we get a fake-sounding slur instead of a natural legato, such as at 1:03.

The brass beginning at 1:39 sounds like you may have used a single articulation and didn't shape the dynamics by hand. This is especially noticeable at 2:00 onward, and really rears its head at the brief staccatos at 2:08 and 2:35 and the soprano sustains starting at 2:22.

The electronic parts of the song are really good; not much to comment on there. Some of the glitching and effects remind me of Geometry Wars, which totally gets the blood pumping. Not sure about calling this song fully orchestral since it makes liberal use of electronic instruments, but again, pretty good overall. Just needs work on the orchestral stuff, mainly introducing more realism and dynamics to the instruments.

Well, I wouldn't say the trill is fake. I used the articulation, so if you think it's fake, then that comment would apply to EWQL's programming.

I don't play any strings instruments, so of course I wouldn't know. Plus, I did say this was my first orchestral song. It's definitely fully orchestral though, as it does use a full orchestra for a large part of it, which is my definition of "fully" anything.

I did use many articulations on the trumpet at 1:39. It's just quiet for the sake of dynamics, so it's somewhat hard to notice. 2:08 staccato brass was definitely using the actual articulations, and I certainly didn't use the default articulation the whole time. Not really sure why you talked about soprano sustains at 2:22, since I didn't use any leading brass there, nor are any string patches I have actually notably called "Soprano violin".

Thanks for the comments anyways.

Edited July 15, 2013 by timaeus222

[Neifion]

Well, I wouldn't say the trill is fake. I used the articulation, so if you think it's fake, then that comment would apply to EWQL's programming.

I don't play any strings instruments, so of course I wouldn't know. Plus, I did say this was my first orchestral song. It's definitely fully orchestral though, as it does use a full orchestra for a large part of it, which is my definition of "fully" anything.

I did use many articulations on the trumpet at 1:39. It's just quiet for the sake of dynamics, so it's somewhat hard to notice. 2:08 staccato brass was definitely using the actual articulations, and I certainly didn't use the default articulation the whole time. Not really sure why you talked about soprano sustains at 2:22, since I didn't use any leading brass there, nor are any string patches I have actually notably called "Soprano violin".

Thanks for the comments anyways.

It may not sound fake to you, but it sounded fake to me. Simply saying that you "used the articulation" shouldn't be a free pass to blame the manufacturer. Often times shaping the sound yourself is required to break the instruments out of the mold. For instance, many instruments have vibrato intensity mapped to the mod wheel, vibrato speed to CC 67 or aftertouch, dynamics to CC11, and portamento speed to velocity, to name a few. EWQL is admittedly notorious for it's rigidity (baked-in vibrato speed, no control for portamento speed, sometimes iffy legato scripts), but I know from experience that there are DXF patches for vibrato, and they all definitely respond to CC11 for expression. If that still doesn't solve the problem, then it may be your playing technique. Or the note choices themselves. Or the tempo bearing on the inflection rate. But you should work through all of those first before passing it off to bad programming. Of course, that's just my feeling on it.

When someone says "fully orchestral", I think of just an orchestra. If you said "I used a full orchestra", then I wouldn't have a disagreement. Guess I just interpreted your words differently.

I know the trumpet was quiet at 1:39, and that's fine. The problem was that even though it was quiet, I still heard the problems just fine. Again, using various articulations doesn't automatically equate to natural, realistic sound. Not matter how many articulations and controls you use, if it sounds fake, it sounds fake. Of course, I'm just one person. It may sound fake to my ears, but less or more so to someone else. To me, it's not really even close; the trumpet honestly sounds similar to the one David Wise used in Krook's March from DCK2.

From 2:22 to 2:38, soprano referred to the approximate pitch of the melody instrument, not the name of an instrument patch you may or may not have used. You did some sustains with what I thought sounded like trumpets or some other sort of brass, in large part because of the sharp, brassy sounding attack of the notes. Then it sounded like you doubled the brass with some string sustains underneath. If there truly wasn't any brass there, then that further implies more problems with the sound of your strings; perhaps you used an articulation with too much accent, giving it somewhat of an unnecessary sforzando attack.

Like I said before though, I think you did a good job. I think the writing is great, the mixing is flawless, and like I already said, the electronic stuff is exciting and gets the blood flowing in a good way. Lots of nice, action-y cinematic imagery, which is what you wanted to convey, and I think you pulled it off in spades. My critiques were all technical, and I just wanted to point out some of the orchestral bits that could have sounded more realistic in order to bring those parts level with the rest.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Neifion

[timaeus222]

It may not sound fake to you, but it sounded fake to me. Simply saying that you "used the articulation" shouldn't be a free pass to blame the manufacturer. Often times shaping the sound yourself is required to break the instruments out of the mold. For instance, many instruments have vibrato intensity mapped to the mod wheel, vibrato speed to CC 67 or aftertouch, dynamics to CC11, and portamento speed to velocity, to name a few. EWQL is admittedly notorious for it's rigidity (baked-in vibrato speed, no control for portamento speed, sometimes iffy legato scripts), but I know from experience that there are DXF patches for vibrato, and they all definitely respond to CC11 for expression. If that still doesn't solve the problem, then it may be your playing technique. Or the note choices themselves. Or the tempo bearing on the inflection rate. But you should work through all of those first before passing it off to bad programming. Of course, that's just my feeling on it.

When someone says "fully orchestral", I think of just an orchestra. If you said "I used a full orchestra", then I wouldn't have a disagreement. Guess I just interpreted your words differently.

I know the trumpet was quiet at 1:39, and that's fine. The problem was that even though it was quiet, I still heard the problems just fine. Again, using various articulations doesn't automatically equate to natural, realistic sound. Not matter how many articulations and controls you use, if it sounds fake, it sounds fake. Of course, I'm just one person. It may sound fake to my ears, but less or more so to someone else. To me, it's not really even close; the trumpet honestly sounds similar to the one David Wise used in Krook's March from DCK2.

From 2:22 to 2:38, soprano referred to the approximate pitch of the melody instrument, not the name of an instrument patch you may or may not have used. You did some sustains with what I thought sounded like trumpets or some other sort of brass, in large part because of the sharp, brassy sounding attack of the notes. Then it sounded like you doubled the brass with some string sustains underneath. If there truly wasn't any brass there, then that further implies more problems with the sound of your strings; perhaps you used an articulation with too much accent, giving it somewhat of an unnecessary sforzando attack.

Like I said before though, I think you did a good job. I think the writing is great, the mixing is flawless, and like I already said, the electronic stuff is exciting and gets the blood flowing in a good way. Lots of nice, action-y cinematic imagery, which is what you wanted to convey, and I think you pulled it off in spades. My critiques were all technical, and I just wanted to point out some of the orchestral bits that could have sounded more realistic in order to bring those parts level with the rest.

Alright. Well, I saw the DXF patches every once in a while, but I never knew what "DXF" stood for. Then again I never really read manuals. I just figure stuff out and look in manuals for content that I know exists but don't know how to access. I'm no orchestral expert like I say sometimes, so I wouldn't know to look for something that is outside my realm of knowledge. I used the Trl KS patches in particular, so I figured if it's labeled "Trl" for trill, it's gotta be meant for trilling. I figure dynamic volume changes are just nitpicks. That's why I said what I said. Libraries that are easy to understand and use are very well-made, and as expensive as EWQL is, I would have expected it to be easier than that to use. It would have been nice to have a more user-friendly interface for Kontakt, instead of just the "default random instrument loaded" interface.

I use articulations so that it sounds good, not necessarily real every time. Generally, whenever what I do sounds good, it sounds convincing anyway. It sounded satisfying to my ears, so I went with it.

2:22 had lead violins and violas, to clarify. Sometimes I do think violas sound brassy, but I did for sure use articulations that aren't so strong in the attack. Maybe the high velocities were loudening it and making it sound like brass, I dunno.

Edited July 15, 2013 by timaeus222

[Neifion]

Yeah, I've learned not to rely on EWQL's "canned" patches so much. Sometimes it sounds good on paper to have things like sampled trills or vibrato because, hey, they recorded a real performer, right? The problem is that when they recorded the sample, they don't know how you're going to use it. Mainly with regards to tempo. That's why I prefer algorithmic articulations for vibrato, tremolo, trills, etc, because I get to say when, how fast, how intense, etc. I can morph the sample to my taste. And that's where I completely agree with you about Kontakt. In fact, that's why I'm gradually drawing away from EWQL and gravitating towards the more customizable stuff out there for Kontakt, especially with solo instruments. The new start-up Embertone has some great stuff already, such as the Friedlander violin.

Looks like I wasn't clear about the dynamics part; I wasn't referring to the trills, but rather the sustains. (Changing the dynamics midway on a short trill would be weird, lol, and of course trills don't have vibrato, so it wouldn't make sense to have a DXF patch for it.) But as for the sustains, especially in an action-y piece, making use of some crescendos on the brass or swells on the strings to close out a section adds not just realism but nice cinematic excitement.

On second thought though, I've tried some of the DXF patches on Platinum Strings, and some of it sounds pretty bad. This is a case where you can definitely blame the programmers. What they apparently did was layer two patches on top of one another: vibrato and non-vibrato. Moving the mod wheel up simply fades the volume down on one, while increasing the volume on the other. The problem is that it totally sounds like two different patches playing at the same time. Some of the better Kontakt libraries out there like LA Scoring Strings, VSL, and Garritan Personal Orchestra have amazing-sounding algorithmic vibrato, but all of those are really expensive. So while I've replaced my solo violin, cello, viola, etc. with the good Kontakt stuff, I'm still stuck with EWQLSO for my big ensemble patches. Seriously, first chance I get, I'm updating my orchestra library.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Neifion

[timaeus222]

Seriously, first chance I get, I'm updating my orchestra library.

Yeah, if only I had the money too. I'd aim for VSL or LASS any day.