Classic Sonic Bosses - Overly Dramatic remix

[Mush]

Hi

First time making a thread here, so excuse me if I have done something horribly wrong in the process.

Anyway, I have been working on a remix of all the Classic Sonic boss tracks rammed into about 4 minutes, and by accident at first, they came out overly dramatic. Its closer to finished than not but there's probably room for improvement.

Link:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/78325270/Epic%20Bosses.mp3

Any feedback on how I can improve or fix things would be much appreciated!

[Rexy]

I'm gonna have to go at speed for this one, being the Sega remix hunting nerd that I am.

* Arrangement-wise, this is a medley. All the songs are just stapled together, which is a complete no-no for OCR.

* What makes this 'overly dramatic'? None of the transitions feel overly exciting, and there's no expression in the instruments to make it feel like it. I see some attempts with some of the synth arpeggios and pulses, but that's about it.

* It also feels horribly compressed and muddy to me. I don't know exactly what instruments you tried to EQ if any, but my best suggestion would be to go back to each one one-by-one and cut any frequencies out that you don't need. That would also help remove that unneeded punch across the entire song as well.

I think someone like Timaeus would probably do better than me at figuring out any additional production issues, but I seriously mean it on the arrangement front - for OCR, it would absolutely not work in its current state.

My apologies for being so brutal on this, but it's part of helping people like you start to improve.

[Mush]

Thanks for the advice, I am definitely going to look into the composition side of things, maybe just choose one boss song to work with and flesh it out a bit more.

Maybe 'overly dramatic' was a little optimistic, but for now I will have to think on what else to call it so far...

Yeah, some other people have come back to me and said the mixing was a little muddy and compressed, and that really needs a look at. I'll take any advice to fixing that on board as mixing isn't really my strong point.

Thanks again!

[timaeus222]

Dramaticness Analysis

I can see how you perceived this as dramatic, though not really overdramatic, per se. The first 20 seconds has a chord progression that makes use of the root of the VI chord in the bass, followed by VII and I (e.g. A, B, C in C major). Occasionally I use that to introduce a somewhat "heroic" feel to a melody, but I try not to use it so much these days, just for the sake of variety. The orchestral snares with the dubstep/dance kick add to that perception, though as a whole it doesn't seem like a cohesive sound combination, especially since at 0:28 it changes tempo and switches to the next source (and I don't even know Sonic music extremely well).

Medley-itis

So, I definitely agree with Rexy here that this sounds like a straightforward medley. If I, someone who doesn't know Sonic all that well, can tell when you switch sources... yeah, there's totally a transition weirdness going on here. Those weirdnesses are due to the different tempos that you're linking together.

Mixing

I also concur about the overcompression and the muddiness. I believe it's the EQ of the bass instrument being overboosted making it sound muddy. I used to EQ without proper reasoning, and if I look back at my really old stuff, I could see that that was the case. It might benefit you to post what you did in the EQ for the bass instrument (as a screenshot). As a general rule, I usually cut frequencies out more than I boost them up, and most of my boosts these days tend to be above 1000Hz (~midrange) so that I don't introduce muddiness (in the sub bass, bass, and/or low-mids).

Sidenote

When working with EQ early on, I do not recommend boosting; it'll introduce issues that are basically unrecognizable until you realize that they're there, and while sometimes it takes other people to tell you there's "something off", it's also almost impossible to tell what's really happening if there's a bunch of EQ problems clumped into one ReMix (hence, I'm asking you to post your EQ edits). In cases where lots of instruments are overly boosted, someone might say, "this is loud in the midrange" or something similar to that---not so much "so-and-so instrument is boosted here, and this other instrument is boosted here"; that'd be pretty impressive! As for when I'd suggest you start boosting more seriously... I think you can decide when you feel good about it; when you can hear the boosts you do, then you know what you've done with that boost. In other words, be more self-aware.

Sidechaining & Loudness

Lastly, I can't quite tell if you're aware of the benefits of sidechaining. Maybe you're just doing it too subtly, or maybe it's not even there, but either way, it'll help to listen closely to hear if your sidechaining (assuming it's there) is actually doing something. I would try lowering the Threshold value and see if what the kick drum is being sidechained with is feeling pushed down more heavily. The main reason why I can't tell is that maybe you could be using a limiter that pushes down quite heavily on loud peaks (Hard Knee Limiter), and maybe it just so happens that your kick is loudest (which it usually is expected to be, conventionally). The kick can be turned down a little, by the way, since the pumping compression seems to be happening while the kick hits.

Merits

Oh, and just to clear things up about what you want to call this, it feels like you're switching genres, between orchestral, dance, and drum & bass. To be honest, you've got a pretty good snare for drum & bass, and the kick is nice too, tonally. You seem to have gotten certain rhythmic patterns down in your head, but I'm not sure if you are aware that you changed genres. Nothing really wrong with changing genres in the middle of a ReMix; just something that I think I should bring to your attention. This kinda reminds me of Kirby at times (Nightmare in Dreamland ~ Boss Tower) with the syncopated rhythms in the dance sections. Some of the writing is actually quite nice, especially the interaction of certain arp work.

Edited August 15, 2014 by timaeus222

[Mush]

I have read your critique and have done a few changes, I have decided to stick with the DnB style and only remix the Sonic 3 boss in this style. I have also tried to clean up the mix a little.

However, I am finding this remix hard to add extra parts to, in terms of composition, as once you have remixed the two melodies inside the tune, there isn't much to do. I am currently experimenting with adding a section that sounds more like the 'mini-boss' part to flesh it out a bit.

Here's the updated drobox link:

Sonic 3 Boss ReMix, as yet untitled.

To maybe help those critique my work, I have added a Parametric EQ to the master channel to show the frequencies, this EQ doesn't change the output sound at all. The screenshot was taken at about 40 seconds in.

http://i.imgur.com/TeZ4dRo.jpg (It was a tad big)

Thanks again for the help.

[timaeus222]

It's hard to tell what's really happening in the Master channel Parametric EQ since that's the overall EQ and doesn't really show how the individual EQs are before they stack up. Can you screenshot the bass instrument's EQ?

I think this sounds more focused and cohesive now, so you're definitely getting there. Perhaps you could lower the volume on every instrument (individually, not with the master fader) because as a whole it still sounds a little overcompressed. If the mix sounds about the same with or without the limiter on, and it barely touches 0 dB, then it should be good to go on the overall volume. If there's a little red on the Master channel gain (with the sound bars), then it's too loud.

I don't know how long of a ReMix you might be planning to make this, but I think that while 0:12 has some strong drums, the non-percussive instruments don't seem to clearly point my ears to a lead instrument until 0:36; 0:12 - 0:36 feels like a section with drums and accompaniment, while the sequenced brass instrument sounds like it's leading into a "main", heavier section.

At 1:01, it feels like a rehash of what was written earlier, with different instruments, I think. There are lots of ways you can reinterpret OSTs: keeping the original structure and adding countermelodies, chopping up the melody and extending it along a different chord progression, changing the melody's tempo and adapting it to different genre contexts (rather hard, actually), using certain parts of the melody for certain types of sections (intro, outtro, breakdown section, etc.) and other parts for other types (verse, chorus, climax, etc.), and so on. Here are two examples of strong interpretations:

- melody in different genre contexts (listen closely to the notes in the melody)

- melody modified to fit various instrumental contexts

And for now, it sounds like the snare rolls have the same velocities on each hit, or at least really similar velocities, and that can lead to people calling it "mechanical" (otherwise known as "not realistic"), which just means it sounds like a computer is playing it rigidly with no volume difference between each hit. Since it seems like you're using the same snare sample on all hits of these snare rolls, the velocity variation should help make it feel less fake.

Edited August 17, 2014 by timaeus222

[Mush]

I isolated the bass and got a screenshot of its EQ, not much happening as its mostly just the raw sound from the YM synth.

http://i.imgur.com/zoCgOCz.jpg

[timaeus222]

Ah, okay, the YM2612. For the bass, can you try lowering the gain (the rounded square sliders on the right) for the "4" and "5" bands down a few mouse wheel rolls (or about 1.6~3.2dB)? By doing that, it'll clear up some headroom for other instruments that cover 400~2000Hz, which include most of the synth arps and leads you have going on. All that means is that you can hear them more distinctly than before. Bass instruments similar to this one don't often need a high amount of midrange (500~4000Hz) because they're providing a "backbone" to the chords outlined by the notes played from the more melodic instruments.

This might be a helpful read, written by this guy.

Edited August 17, 2014 by timaeus222

[Mush]

Yeah the YM is awesome, and the free VST I found is pretty much bang on.

Anyway, I did some fiddling with EQs and changed a few of the dials on the synths in the song to make the frequencies more spread out and less muddy. I also added another section at the end in an attempt to flesh it out a bit.

Link: Sonic 3 Boss ReMix

Thanks a lot for your help again!

[timaeus222]

This is some great progress! I think 0:43 works better now as a section without a super noticeable lead. I really liked the section at 1:08. It was a good dropoff from the high energy. Could use transitions here and there, but your dynamics are certainly improving.

Looking at the stereo field in the older games (like for the SNES, GB, etc.), there wasn't much someone could do to make a soundscape with depth AND width because they stuck to simple synth tones, likely without a built-in width adjustment knob, so what they did was add panning for certain notes in arpeggios to make them feel more alive, and even occasionally sequenced in manual delays with repeated notes of decreasing velocities (to create a customized delay that might otherwise be much harder to do with a real plugin). I think that can help here, since a lot of the sounds you have feel vintage. Making more use of expression tricks such as portamento/glide, pitch bend, and vibrato can really add character and make up for the simplicity of these timbres. Looks like you're using FL Studio, so you can do the portamento and pitch bend (try double clicking an already-sequenced note) using any of the native FL VSTi's such as 3xOsc, Harmless, Sytrus, etc. If you're using mostly outside plugins, then hopefully those settings are available in those synths.

If you listen closely to this (at 0:30), for example, the panning can make you feel like you're in the middle of an expansive soundscape. Or, if you listen to this, the vibrato and portamento on the lead sound can make it feel scarier than without it.

And probably what still needs attention are the drum patterns. A lot of the Drum & Bass patterns here feel repetitive, and adding fills (snare rolls, open hi hats, tom rolls, etc.) and variations helps to get out of the conveyed ever-constant feel. Some might call it "plodding". Basically it sounds like drum patterns that are either very similar or exactly the same are being copied and pasted many times. Some examples of varied drums:

http://ocremix.org/forums/showpost.php?p=970928&postcount=2

Edited August 19, 2014 by timaeus222