Help Creating a Live Setup

[Blaine]

Important stuff to know:

1) The music I'm looking to do is, of course, heavily electronic based (hence why I need some suggestions here!)

2) I am one person, not a band. I am not particularly opposed to collaborating with other musicians to perform live, but for the moment I'm wanting to keep things solo.

3) My current gear is:

1 M-Audio Oxygen49 keyboard (with stand)

1 Novation Launchpad

1 Home-brew desktop running primarily FL Studio (though I've been messing around in Reaper as of late)

1 Standard Mac book Pro (4gigs of Ram, 2.8GHz Intel Core i7), I don't really do music on this atm

1 Steinberg UR 22 audio interface

2 Electric bass guitars

Here's my goal playing live:

I want my set to be continuous, as if I was DJing or something (that's what DJs do right? Make a smooth flow of continuous music?). However, instead of mixing together pre-recorded/created tracks, I want to be able to build them up live, and then be able to transition between them. The best example I can think of for this is the duo Minilogue, though I'm not trying to do exactly what they do, just that general idea. I'm really looking to create a live show that can change and evolve, and react to the moment (at least to some degree).

For a more specific example:

I start by setting a tempo, I then play in a basic drum loop. After that, I trigger some pre-made percussion loops and then play a chord progression on the spot. While these are all looping, I add some of my electric bass in. That is now looping as well. Maybe I then shift back to my keyboard and play a melody or something. I switch up the percussion, mess with some filters and modulation, and the track starts to wind down. As things move into the next song maybe I want to move to something faster, so while a basic percussion groove/arp groove is still going I slowly dial up the tempo 10 clicks and then start a new song. Then repeat the process.

Some concerns I have with the setup:

- Latency

- Having enough magic computer juice to run multiple VSTs and handle recording live bass, most likely with effects (which goes back to latency)

- Will I be able to record the whole show (possibly 30-60+min of music) within my DAW, so that if I improv something I like I can recall it later (in that show or others)?

- Signal flow? How should everything be connected? Should the bass be DI (Is there even another option that would make a difference in computer performance)?

- Will opening/closing VSTs and switching between presets on the fly cause issues?

So here's my actual question(s) to all of you out there. What would you suggest, if anything, I look into buying to make this idea a reality? I don't really want to lug my desktop around to gigs, so what would you suggest to use as a DAW on my laptop? Should I invest in Ableton/Bitwig? or should I look at getting a new not-Mac laptop to run FL on? I have a feeling I'll likely need to upgrade my laptop anyways, so switching over to windows might be easier. Brand suggestions? (I don't think you can home-brew laptops yet). Should I stick with a Mac? If so, what kind?

Also, how does FL's performance mode compare to Ableton's? I still haven't quite figured out how to do much more than trigger loops with FLs performance mode, and I'm aiming to do a little more than that. Have any of you messed around much with Bitwig? It seems comparable to Ableton on most levels, it's cheeper, and I like the look of it more. Are there any other DAWs that are tailored well for performance? I'm not really looking to replace FL, I just need something that will function how I want it to live. What about Maschine? Is that something that would be worth investing in? I've heard it's good for doing live stuff, and that it can function alongside other DAWs.

As a final note, I'm thinking long-term here, as in at least 5 or 6 months (probably closer to a year+) before I really get rolling. I'm trying think ahead in order to get everything in line and give myself a chance to practice/get comfortable/have a nice chunk of original material before I actually try to get gigs. So, I don't really have a price limit or anything, cause I can always plan and budget accordingly depending on what I might need. (That being said, I really can't afford tons of new equipment costing $1,000+ )

Any and all help and ideas are welcome! Also, let me know if you can think of other problems/issues that I should be concerned with.

[bitl3gs]

I've been gigging with Ableton Live for almost 10 years, I think it can do pretty much everything you're looking for. Your current MacBook can also run it just fine I think, mine is about 5 years old and still does the trick for me. I've heard Bitwig is cool too, but I've never tried it.

You're right that latency will be an issue with recording live bass. I would probably take that out of the setup anyway, it seems like you are taking on too many tasks at once. It's very important to keep the set interesting flowing smoothly and I think switching between a bunch of instruments is just prone to failure and slowdown when you're solo. If you're using the keyboard, I would just jam your basslines on that instead, or just use your own prerecorded bass loops. But don't let me stop you from trying

As for recording within Ableton, it will work ok to a point but eventually it will likely bog down your software too much and possibly crash the software. I would not recommend doing this at a gig. Just use the external rec out on the mixer if possible into another recording device.

I don't use many VSTs live other than some main channel mastering, so I can't help you there.

As far as the hardware goes I think you could pull it off with what you have. You might want to get some kind of control surface controller with faders and knobs to better control your mixer channels. Novation just came out with the Launch Control XL which is pretty cheap and should do the job nicely.

If you're curious about my live set, there's one here: https://soundcloud.com/revy/revy-live-pa-machine-language

I have a different approach then what you're envisioning though. I have big library of my own stems that I mix together in different combinations each time I play.

[Esperado]

I HAVEN'T been gigging with ableton for 10 years, BUT, Ill weight in my two cents.

Investing in Ableton is a good idea in my opinion, its very versatile in terms of live performance and controllerism. If i understand you correctly, what youre trying to do, is pretty much just that. I dont think FL studio is quite as well equipped for live performance as ableton, or at the very least, not as user freindly.

I would also suggest that you plan out your sets in some manner. Im not saying prearrange the whole thing beforehand, but perhaps choose the samples and synths you'd like to use, keep in mind some compelling melodies you'd like and mix it in a manner that sounds pleasing so that it sounds good when you go up on stage. In my mind, the more prep and practice you do, the better its going to sound in the end.

as for the equipment, you have everything you need to do a live show already. Any further equipment would complicate your setup. while thats fine, you should learn what you have and be comfortable with your setup and workflow before buying new equipment that may not even fit with your style of live performance.

Edited August 28, 2014 by Esperado

[Blaine]

I've been gigging with Ableton Live for almost 10 years, I think it can do pretty much everything you're looking for. Your current MacBook can also run it just fine I think, mine is about 5 years old and still does the trick for me. I've heard Bitwig is cool too, but I've never tried it.

You're right that latency will be an issue with recording live bass. I would probably take that out of the setup anyway, it seems like you are taking on too many tasks at once. It's very important to keep the set interesting flowing smoothly and I think switching between a bunch of instruments is just prone to failure and slowdown when you're solo. If you're using the keyboard, I would just jam your basslines on that instead, or just use your own prerecorded bass loops. But don't let me stop you from trying

As for recording within Ableton, it will work ok to a point but eventually it will likely bog down your software too much and possibly crash the software. I would not recommend doing this at a gig. Just use the external rec out on the mixer if possible into another recording device.

As far as the hardware goes I think you could pull it off with what you have. You might want to get some kind of control surface controller with faders and knobs to better control your mixer channels. Novation just came out with the Launch Control XL which is pretty cheap and should do the job nicely.

Encouraging to know my MacBook might be useful as is, since that would definitely be a rather large purchase.

The thought that adding bass into the live mix might be too much, at least for now, has definitely crossed my mind. I think you're probably right in suggesting I remove it from the equation. I'll probably mess around with the idea still as I get things moving, but I think making it a low priority of focus for the moment is a good move. Part of this might also be due to the fact that I don't consider myself much of a keyboard player/pianist, but this is probably just me being silly.

I was almost positive that recording a show through my daw while simultaneously using it to perform was going to be a no go. Thought I'd at least ask though, just in case >_>

For controllers, my keyboard does have some knobs and faders, but I'm obviously gonna want to be able to control some effects with those, so I think your suggestion of one additional piece of equipment is a sound one. I guess I'm not too surprised that what I have is probably enough, but I think a part of me wanted to buy a ton of more gear just because I like playing with fancy equipment

I HAVEN'T been gigging with ableton for 10 years, BUT, Ill weight in my two cents.

Investing in Ableton is a good idea in my opinion, its very versatile in terms of live performance and controllerism. If i understand you correctly, what youre trying to do, is pretty much just that. I dont think FL studio is quite as well equipped for live performance as ableton, or at the very least, not as user freindly.

I would also suggest that you plan out your sets in some manner. Im not saying prearrange the whole thing beforehand, but perhaps choose the samples and synths you'd like to use, keep in mind some compelling melodies you'd like and mix it in a manner that sounds pleasing so that it sounds good when you go up on stage. In my mind, the more prep and practice you do, the better its going to sound in the end.

I think you're right on the money about FL studio's performance issues (heh...). I've had a tough time trying to find decent comparisons of the two, but from what I've seen of them individually, Ableton looks like a clear superior.

I also agree with you 100% on preparing/prearranging the show. That was my original intention, I just didn't explain it that well But yeah, the idea would definitely be to have a bunch of stuff set up beforehand with at least a solid roadmap of where I'm going and how I'm going to get there. I DEFINITELY don't want to improv everything. The main thing I wanted to get across was that I didn't want everything to be set up so that I just press buttons for things to happen (like, press a button for intro. Then press a button for the percussion. Then press a button for bassline+pads, etc.). I want to be able to extend or shorten a song, or be able to add different ornaments to melody lines, or maybe do different things with effects, and I wanted this stuff to be "in the moment" as opposed to premeditated. The structure and "skeleton" of the tracks would be there, but the extra bits would be added on the fly. That, and I kind of want some flexibility with tempos, as I think it's really exciting when a band or musician takes something faster or slower than you're used to. It can really change the feel and mood of things, and if I can't react appropriately to that change, things will sound a little weird (to me at least).

Very helpful advice, thank you both! It looks like my next purchase is probably going to be Ableton, though I might mess around with Bitwig a bit as well, since I've heard it's pretty similar. And Shiny. Any more thoughts/advice/whatever (from anyone) is still welcome! I'm all ears (or eyes I guess, in this case )

[bitl3gs]

no problem man. one other thing that might help, some midi controllers come with a Lite version of Live (that Novation controller I mentioned has this deal for example). from there you can get a cheaper upgrade to the full version of Ableton as opposed to buying it straight out. there might be similar deals with Bitwig floating around too, I don't know. You should definitely try out demo versions of each and see which one you feel more comfortable in.