Chimpazilla Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 (edited) Hiya, Contact information: Remixer name: Jorito Real Name: Jorrith Schaap Email: Website: http://www.jorito.net/ Userid: 3917 Submission information: Name of Game(s) Remixed: Contra Name of Arrangement: Oh noes, there be aliens in my waterfall! Names of songs arranged: Waterfall (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U58a-svZok8) and some subtle references in the calm part to parts of Jungle (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O04bPRzqEEk) Link to the original soundtrack: Comments about the mix: For years the music from Konami's Contra (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contra_(video_game)) waterfall theme has been stuck in my head and I thought it'd deserve a remix. Of course there are plenty of rock/metal Contra covers around already, so I decided to do things a bit differently. A few months ago I finally found the time and inspiration to actually do something with this track, so I fired up my DAW and some orchestral patches and started working on it. I'm not much of an orchestrator, but I like combining different genres and thought injecting a bit of rock would be a good idea. After a few WIPs I offered a demo link to some people at #ocrwip. Ivan Hakštok liked it and offered to play the rhythm guitar. A bit later, I found some nice drum video by Erik Vreven and asked him to play in the drums. Finally, deciding it needed a bit more climatic ending I added in a MIDI lead guitar, decided a real guitar would immensely improve things and asked Sixto if he would play a bit of lead guitar. So there you have it, a full on rock/orchestral take on Contra's waterfall theme combined with some (not so) subtle references to the level 1 "Jungle" theme in the calmer parts of the song, featuring the following guest contributors: - Ivan Hakštok (rhythm guitars) - Erik Vreven (drums) - Sixto Sounds (lead guitar) Cheers, Jorrith ----------------------------- Edited May 8, 2015 by Liontamer closed decision Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimpazilla Posted April 30, 2015 Author Share Posted April 30, 2015 Really great performances here! The guitars and drums are really well done. So, is the bass midi then? The bass sounds good but it is lacking in lows, not much going on below 90-100Hz. Drums could be louder, otherwise I think the mixing is working well. The string backing feels appropriate and is sequenced well. I feel like I hear enough source although I haven't done a breakdown. I'm not completely sold on the breakdown section, and the fact that 1:38-1:41 sounds like an ending doesn't help. The breakdown stands out a little stark against the rest of the arrangement until 2:05 when the drums and bass return. So for me, 1:41-2:05 is a bit awkward and empty, but this just may be one woman's opinion. My issues aside, this is a great track! edit 5/5/15: When the vote splits, I revisit my vote. I'm listening again and reading Larry's and Vinnie's votes, and I understand what they are hearing. I also understand Vinnie's comment that he isn't even sure he could mix this well himself (and wow he's really good at production). I had to listen twice again to figure out what the deal was. The track does indeed sound bleedy and muddy, but it sounds like the type of mixing I would expect from a purely orchestral track. Maybe that's why it didn't jump out at me. If I listen at 1:44, the production there sounds like the orchestral "wall of sound" that one would expect in a 100% orchestral track. The problem is that you've mixed the guitars, bass and drums all the same way as the orchestral instruments, with the end result being a wall of sound. It is cohesive as heck, but it isn't quite working. This is a conundrum! I don't know how to tell you to mix this! On the one hand, the orchestral sections need to sound cohesive, and they do. But the guitars and drums need to pop out, but you don't want them to sound "pasted on top" of an orchestral background. This one will be tricky. Start with eq and just clean up every instrument, taking care that there isn't so much frequency overlap, and let's see what happens. I think the levels and panning are already pretty good. Good luck. NO (resubmit) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liontamer Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 No need for a source breakdown on this, it's all very straightforward usage of the two themes, with "Waterfall" basically everywhere except "Jungle" used from 1:42-2:21. Soundscape was already pretty cluttered at :11, but little did I know... I'll just be honest, a lot of this sounded like mud. For example, the accenting string work got buried in the background from :37-:47 & 1:06-1:39; it might as well have not been there. I can pick out the bassline, but that's also pretty buried. The lead brass from 1:17-1:37 should have stood out more, but it's competing with the strings, electric guitar, and bassline, and nothing stands out as a result. Nice "Jungle" theme usage from 1:42-2:21 to change the tone and energy level of the piece, before going back to "Waterfall" at 2:21. What can you say, the arrangement is intense, the instrumentation was very expansive, and the delivery was very personalized. Small detail but the way the final note faded out at 3:11 was WAY TOO FAST, c'mon. I literally said "What are you doing?" at my screen. Bah. :-/ If you can fix that, do it. OK, so when I walked into this decision thread, this had a lot of things going for it. Not that I'm walking into with bias, but just acknowledging that this had... 1) one YES vote already laid down 2) Hakštok and Sixto involved 3) it's Contra ... I was primed to think this was a pass. If this were JUST about arrangement and not about reasonable production, I would have went YES. But this mixing is definitely very muddy, with 1:17-1:37 & 2:13-3:10 being the worst offenders. There's just too many areas where instruments bleed together and wash out. Basically, you need to go back to this, rework every section that has electric guitar in it and clean up the densest sections. Awesome arrangement that needs another pass at the mixing. I may be the outlier, but if it passes as is, it'll definitely be something where Jorrith looks back later on and realizes this mixing job underminded this otherwise-impressive, hard-hitting collaboration. NO (refine/resubmit) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palpable Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Larry's vote is completely on point here. Arrangement is awesome. I love the original song and this is high-energy and hard-hitting, or it can be with the proper mixing. The intro is great, but as soon as the orchestral elements enter, it's just a mush, and things sound too washed out. The strings are taking up too much of the low-end space that the accompanying instruments need to use; beyond that, it's hard to pinpoint the fixes. Granted, I think many remixers would have trouble mixing a track like this correctly (including myself) but that's the downside of going for something this ambitious. Sixto probably has some tips to get the production sounding better, since he's done tracks along these lines before. Hope you take another look at this to get it sounding right, because it's such a strong arrangement. NO (resubmit) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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