Feedback on my First Ever Mastered Track!

[DarkEco]

I made this track for my first year of university on Cubase (first time using it) with the few plugins available in the class. Spent hours tweaking the mixing and mastering and i feel i need to put it to bed now. Can i have some feedback on how good it is sound wise? I'm trying to improve my mixing and mastering skills so any feedback is helpful. My lecturer said he was impressed that i managed to make the terrible drum samples sound not terrible, so that's good at least haha.

https://soundcloud.com/darkeco/master-attempt-3

[Irnon]

Sounded good to me, I would cut the first thirty seconds if it were me though. That's just because I like music to make a point fast.

I like it.

[Slimy]

I feel that at 1:12, the sheer loudness of everything was drowning out the melody and counter-melody, which might otherwise sound very good. Same at 1:44. The guitar sound doing rhythms isn't the melody until 2:32 - it's background, and yet it sound overpowering whenever it plays. I think the song overall can afford to be not-so-loud at times.

I've never been to university though, this is possibly the blind leading the blind.

Did you arrange this as well? If so, I think the drums could have some more complicated writing, but I like the arrangement overall.

[dannthr]

I agree with slimy, you have some pads that are muddying up your mid-highs, right where your main melody sits, cut out a space for your melody.  Remember, when you work a long time on a track (especially when mixing), it's really easy for you to hear something you already know about than it is for someone who doesn't know what's coming to hear it.  It's a mental trick your brain plays on you as you become increasingly familiar with a pattern, it becomes easier to spot the pattern.  This can create an artificial sense of clarity where it doesn't exist.

[DarkEco]

12 hours ago, Slimy said:

I feel that at 1:12, the sheer loudness of everything was drowning out the melody and counter-melody, which might otherwise sound very good. Same at 1:44. The guitar sound doing rhythms isn't the melody until 2:32 - it's background, and yet it sound overpowering whenever it plays. I think the song overall can afford to be not-so-loud at times.

I've never been to university though, this is possibly the blind leading the blind.

Did you arrange this as well? If so, I think the drums could have some more complicated writing, but I like the arrangement overall.

Thanks for the feedback. The chorus is the part I spent the longest mixing for that very reason. I'd hoped it was sorted, clearly not though. Also, I'm no drummer, so I'm not great at writing them. Could you give me any advice on how to make them more interesting?

 

12 hours ago, dannthr said:

I agree with slimy, you have some pads that are muddying up your mid-highs, right where your main melody sits, cut out a space for your melody.  Remember, when you work a long time on a track (especially when mixing), it's really easy for you to hear something you already know about than it is for someone who doesn't know what's coming to hear it.  It's a mental trick your brain plays on you as you become increasingly familiar with a pattern, it becomes easier to spot the pattern.  This can create an artificial sense of clarity where it doesn't exist.

Yeah, I noticed in the first few days when I couldn't remember exactly what I'd wrote it sounded different to later on when I could remember it better than my own name.

[dannthr]

This is why you should take breaks throughout the day when it's long and if you're not under crunch, when you think you've finished, just stop listening to it for a week or so and come back to it fresh.

[timaeus222]

I actually like the setup that 0:00 - 0:30 does. That intro reminds me of something by Dream Theatre.  I can say more later, when I actually have my good headphones on and I have a more accurate stereo field. Also, I know you said "mastering", but maybe you meant "mixing". My initial impressions are that:

- I'm pretty sure I'm hearing either slight overcompression, or overcrowding plus weak/overly clean drums at 1:12 - 2:00, but I'd probably be more sure later.

- The drums are decently mixed, but it's one of those situations where it's "good but not great". They get the job done, but are merely good enough. They aren't that strong/punchy. I can barely notice the kick, the snare is there but not that upfront, and the hi hats/etc could be a bit louder.

For example, these drums are quite punchy, because they've had some careful distortion added, as well as some parallel compression (especially the snare). Notice the right-panned toms at 0:51 - 1:06? Yeah, they're pretty quiet, but if you know they're there, you can hear them. The little details like that should be able to be heard in a well-mixed track.

- The rhythm guitar is alright. Kind of like the drums, it does its job, but IMO, it's on the borderline of not quite good enough. When 1:12 comes in, the rhythm guitars get a bit buried because of the lack of low end (near 200 Hz).

- The lead guitar is not too bad (the playing sounds great); it sounds loud enough before 2:48. At 2:48, it gets a little buried, and if not for the wah pedal adding motion, I might not hear it as well. So from this, I would say to check your midrange frequencies in the rhythm guitar. There seems to be some midrange clutter that obscures the lead guitar in the denser timestamps in the mix.

[DarkEco]

1 hour ago, timaeus222 said:

I actually like the setup that 0:00 - 0:30 does. That intro reminds me of something by Dream Theatre.  I can say more later, when I actually have my good headphones on and I have a more accurate stereo field. Also, I know you said "mastering", but maybe you meant "mixing". My initial impressions are that:

- I'm pretty sure I'm hearing either slight overcompression, or overcrowding plus weak/overly clean drums at 1:12 - 2:00, but I'd probably be more sure later.

- The drums are decently mixed, but it's one of those situations where it's "good but not great". They get the job done, but are merely good enough. They aren't that strong/punchy. I can barely notice the kick, the snare is there but not that upfront, and the hi hats/etc could be a bit louder.

For example, these drums are quite punchy, because they've had some careful distortion added, as well as some parallel compression (especially the snare). Notice the right-panned toms at 0:51 - 1:06? Yeah, they're pretty quiet, but if you know they're there, you can hear them. The little details like that should be able to be heard in a well-mixed track.

- The rhythm guitar is alright. Kind of like the drums, it does its job, but IMO, it's on the borderline of not quite good enough. When 1:12 comes in, the rhythm guitars get a bit buried because of the lack of low end (near 200 Hz).

- The lead guitar is not too bad (the playing sounds great); it sounds loud enough before 2:48. At 2:48, it gets a little buried, and if not for the wah pedal adding motion, I might not hear it as well. So from this, I would say to check your midrange frequencies in the rhythm guitar. There seems to be some midrange clutter that obscures the lead guitar in the denser timestamps in the mix.

Well Dreamtheater happen to be my favourite band! It's definitely inspired by the intro to "Lines in the Sand", even though that wasn't my intention. Btw I did mean mastering. In class we did a mixdown and then we were introduced to multiband compressors, limiters and stereo enhancers to master our mixdowns. So this is my mastering attempt. I managed to get the volume to the level of some commercial references, but I guess I need to mix better so I can ease off the compression.

 

Edit: I just saw you linked the same DT track haha

[timaeus222]

Wait, so are you allowed to use plugins other than the ones available from class? For example, you may want to give TLs-Pocket Limiter a shot. It's free, and has been my mainstay limiter for the past 3 years.

[timaeus222]

Okay, so now that I'm listening on my mixing headphones, the stereo field still sounds pretty good.

With the stuff I said before, I'd say:

- Yep, some slight overcompression, so definitely see if you can lessen the amount of compression on the master. Maybe the ratio is too high, because for some reason it's not so overcompressed that it's pumping, but it's right on the edge where you could tell something's off in the denser timestamps.

- Still going to say the same things about the drums, rhythm guitar, and lead guitar. Haha, I guess I was general enough after all.

[DarkEco]

Thanks for taking the time to listen over this, I really appreciate it. I'm currently using FL studios Maximus as my multiband/limiter. I was using the one in Cubase but I really felt I needed the visual feedback Maximus offers as I'm not great at hearing the effects of compression until it's too much.

Could you offer any advice on how to make the drums more interesting? I'm better at it than I used to be but I see that they're really lacking flare (and the toms in the intro and outro just suck).

[timaeus222]

I hate to say it, but yeah, I would agree that the drum writing itself could have had more interesting rhythms and fills. Let's see:

- The toms at 0:30 - 0:40 (and 2:00 - 2:16 or so) have a fairly straightforward rhythm; what I mean is that it's like, for example, a bunch of quarter note hits in a row, a bunch of eighth note hits in a row, etc. I think if you replaced some quarter-note hits with two eighth-note hits, it would make the rhythm more complex and more engaging (really, over the entire piece). Whenever I imagine a more interesting rhythm, that kind of subdivision tends to come to mind. Also, I gather that at 0:39 - 0:40 you were aiming to signal for a higher energy section coming in next; perhaps that second snare+hat hit can be choked after making the hit (basically holding the drum head for the hi hat after hitting it). Whenever I imagine that, I get the feeling of anticipating the downbeat. Additionally, perhaps shift that fast hi hat rhythm at 0:38 - 0:39 so that the last hi hat hit lands on the snare+hat hit at about 0:39 - 0:40, which should make the signal more obvious.

- At 0:40 - 0:56, it sounds like it's supposed to be almost like a "segue" into the main part. Perhaps have some syncopated (off-beat) cymbal hits to signal the shift? For example, at 0:50 - 0:51, there could be a cymbal hit at the "+ of 3" (when you count 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + ). Syncopation generally makes rhythms more interesting. The main part at 0:56 (or 1:28), I'm fine with the rhythm on though since it's like a "verse" section to me (while 1:12 sounds like a "chorus"; ironically you also called it that).

- At 1:12 - 1:28 though, I would use more syncopated rhythms like suggested for 0:40 - 0:56.

- The breakdown at 2:00 - 2:16 could have different drum patterns that differentiate from the intro. Also, 2:16 - 2:28 seems to me like it was intended to be higher in energy than 2:00 - 2:16, so perhaps consider changing up the playing style a bit, such as switching from playing the hi hats to playing the ride.

- I'm thinking at 2:32 - 2:47, you have the opportunity to shift to a rhythm that isn't so much what I called straightforward. For example, using the kick drum on the + of 2, and then additionally on the + of 2 AND the + of 3 for variation?

- 2:48 is totally the fun part, so maybe add some syncopated soft cymbals more at 2:48 - 3:04 and 3:20 - 3:36, and maybe even switch over to using rides at 3:04 - 3:20 instead of hi hats for contrast---by this point your "drummer" is basically on autopilot with his/her hands.