SOM/SD2 - Eternal Recurrence - What would you do?

[Monobrow]

OK, it's been a while...

I have quite a few songs that will most likely sit around and never be finished, I don't know what it is, I just don't have the balls (hehe) to finish them or I just get bored and want to move onto something else. Actually pretty much all of my songs are like this. But I particularly like this one:

http://www.fileupyours.com/files/62467/MonobrowEternalWIP.mp3

I don't really want to give up on it even though I've moved onto lots of other things in the last year... This one just sits and sits, and I rarely add anything to it.

So I'm asking you guys, what would you do to it? I'm pretty much blocked with the direction I want to take. I am getting some much better samples from my uncle after Christmas, so improving on the quality will happen eventually... But what else would you do to the song itself - as in -

1. Would you choose another instrument (within reason) for a part (are there any instrument choices that annoy you)

2. If you are familiar with the source material, would you move on to the next part, or should I focus on what I already have going.

3. Also, percussion, if any, what kind would you add... I really am at a loss there.

4. What would you want out of the song next... Do you like the arrangement, etc.

5. Anything else come to mind besides the real lack of EQ/detail work/volume issues and sample issues... Sorry if some things are too loud on this version, I will have to re-render it sometime on my brother's comp to get a better version, if I can find it haha.

Source material = http://www.fileupyours.com/files/62467/Seiken%20Densetsu%20II%20Track%2023%20Eternal%20Recurrence.spc

Oh yeah, p.s. the song pretty much ends at 2:45 (haha, whoops - sorry for the extra stuff it is just extra parts that I moved that didn't fit, etc. - have a laugh)

[about:blank]

This is pretty good, especially for something that's not finished.

I'll adress your questions in the order you asked them:

1. I'm pretty happy with the instrumentation here, I think the organ fits in well with the piano, and though the piano does need some work in the production department, the reverb on it makes it sound very nice, even when bare. I know it's not part of the remix, but the when the piano is bare around 2:45 it sounds slightly similar to something by thewingless.

2. I'm not familiar with the source, but I did listen to the spc and it seems like you still may have a lot to work with, I think you should move on to the next part, and then work on mastering/production when you have a basic framework for the entire mix.

3. Around 2:15, a bass part comes in, I think this would be a perfect opportunity to add some percussion. I think maybe using some hand percussion would sound nice with this.

4. I can't really help you here, I've only listened to your mix three times, and only heard the original once. All I can say is that from hearing the source, it sounds like you haven't touched certain parts of the arrangement, and I'd work on those if I were you.

5. Nothing else really comes to mind. I'll post again if I get any ideas though.

Hope this helps!

[Monobrow]

This is pretty good, especially for something that's not finished.

I'll adress your questions in the order you asked them:

1. I'm pretty happy with the instrumentation here, I think the organ fits in well with the piano, and though the piano does need some work in the production department, the reverb on it makes it sound very nice, even when bare. I know it's not part of the remix, but the when the piano is bare around 2:45 it sounds slightly similar to something by thewingless.

Haha funny you mention that, but actually I don't intend that bare piano to be there anymore, it was just an idea but it didn't really seem to work... The song ends (for now) at 2:45... Though if that part of the song does end up reintroducing itself, I may use it, (which is why I kept it around I guess) We will see.

2. I'm not familiar with the source, but I did listen to the spc and it seems like you still may have a lot to work with, I think you should move on to the next part, and then work on mastering/production when you have a basic framework for the entire mix.

Thanks, I will try to figure out how to move on... It's kind of tough because the original song itself really doesn't have a main melody (verse/chorus) going on, it just meanders along (very beautifully though) and then hits a point to repeat itself over and over... Anyway yeah, the improved piano is going to sound like that basically, (it won't sound so clinky and bare) though I may add a little more decay, it depends on what the piano sounds like when I get it... Actually, most of the samples will be replaced with better ones, I am thinking of orchestrating the part at 2:30 or so with strings/lower brass/flutes etc... Maybe... The main idea will still be there... Then I will work on mastering/production issues most likely.

3. Around 2:15, a bass part comes in, I think this would be a perfect opportunity to add some percussion. I think maybe using some hand percussion would sound nice with this.

I can see that, thanks for that suggestion

Hope this helps!

It sure does, any input is appreciated.

[Audity]

I wouldn't have commented on this, but you commented on my FF12 mix, this mix is from SoM, and the source tune is in my top 5 from the game no doubt. I attempted to arrange this myself but of course failed miserably, though I barely had an idea of what to do with the song. No percussion seems like the best choice for this kind of song, but you need to make sure it has strong sections that make up for having no percussion, especially given that at one point in this mix you pull that off flawlessly.

Before I start: I'm listening on laptop speakers, so it's hard to pick up any details. Also, each paragraph goes into a specific section of this song.

It starts out very unique and well-done, quickly seguing into a lonely instrument playing the progression of the piece you have willed together. Another similar instrument builds upon it to gather the gradual complexity this piece needs. 0:44-0:45 I think should either be left out completely (since the part right before sounds like a more perfect ending) or be paused until near the start of the next section. I think the song needs more flowing transitions.

Piano comes in with an arrangement that sounds decent. It will be nice to be heard with those better samples you say you will be getting. Again, I think the transition to the next section should be better, like have a string instrument slowly come in, or some much better idea that I can't think of.

Combining already established sounds for the next section is a nice choice, but the woodwind sample here is a little too loud. I can't hear the piano and this instrument merging well together, but that's just a problem of mixing levels/reverb/whatever. With these speakers I can't hear any strings that might be there. It sounds like there might be strings, but they are too soft for these speakers for me to hear it. Strings are possibly something to consider, but hopefully not make any too loud, at least not until the piano/woodwind gets more established.

1:45 sounds like an extremely nice variation upon what has been brought so far, though once again the transition is a little weird, yet a little decent at the same time. I love the direction and role the "woodwind" takes, flurrying in the background (reminds me of the solo action in the remix from the game Delta that is on this site) while good string instruments appear and some new crystalline background 8th note progression takes hold. If you receive your new samples, I'd say to keep the string and crystalline "things" you have now and not replace them with something else unless you really find something better. Yeah I'm getting tired good thing I'm almost done. All I can say is this is the strongest section and that you should make it much longer.

And then leave out the whole next piano section unless additions you have in mind follow up the previous section well...somehow. The key change or whatever sounds cheesy even if it starts to get better after its initial premise.

But maybe keep the very last piano section, somewhere near the end of the final WIP.

It's a tiny bit structured like my own FF12 WIP, especially toward the end where it gets random (I wonder...), and because of the fact that it doesn't go into the second half of the source song.

Anyway, I like it for the most part. Just make some parts meld better and add some kind of substance to make transitions seem apparent rather than just silence, though silence may be good one or two times, especially if it's done a tiny bit better than it is implemented at the moment. I can't tell you if any volume is too loud on something (except for that one part I mentioned) since I'm listening with these speakers. I opt for no percussion to be used at all, and that's nothing to be ashamed of not using. The ending in the original where it keeps repeating I think should not be used at all, unless you fit in your own unique spin on it that goes with what you have so far; that part in the original I've always found to be really annoying and stupid sounding anyway. So if you can change it into something more appropriate: yay. I ran into the same trouble when attempting to arrange this myself.

[Martin Penwald]

The piano sample isn't that bad; but the sample of the instrument coming in at 1:07 irks me a bit; maybe because it's too loud.

Just like Audity, I don't think this needs percussion. The part starting at 2:15 sounds good as it is.

Also, just as mentioned before, the piano solo after the mix has "ended" sounds nice.

[Monobrow]

Thanks so far for the comments...

So...a vote for no percussion... hmmm

Yes Audity, there are strings, though they sound a bit subdued, they are loud enough to hear on my headphones, so it may just be your speakers. But it's nice to know anyway.

Yeah that's pretty much the problem with the rest of the song, because the keychange in the next section of the original does lend to a really cheesy and climatic part of the song, followed by that repetition of the piano that doesn't really give me much room for a concrete ending, but I will still experiment around until I figure out something, as I kind of feel that concentrating on just one part of the song is a copout - but I will do it if I can't figure out anything else... or I will just leave the song unfinished.

Also I apologize about the lead, it is pretty much untouched, and it pierces my ears as well.

Also thanks for the advice at :45, that piano section has irked me for a while, so I will try to make a better "beginning" out of the song since I like my intro a lot.

As for the samples... If I find better samples of each instrument, I will probably use them, but use the same effects, etc... It's going to take some work.

I am thinking more along the lines of more orchestra percussion now, which bothers me though, because this is not exactly an orchestral arrangement, it's kind of a hybrid... Oh well.

Thanks for the input so far