Ristar - Ice Star

[Troyificus]

This is for the OverClocked Christmas Album this year. I've always wanted to make a track from Ristar's 'Ring Rink (Round 5-1)' source and inspiration has finally struck! I'm very lacking in the mixing and mastering department, so specific feedback is highly appreciated.

https://on.soundcloud.com/VZHk4

Edited December 13, 2023 by Troyificus

[Hemophiliac]

Definitely a good choice to contribute to the Christmas album with this source.  Getting a "snow is falling vibe" from it, and that will fit perfectly.

Evaluation:

First thing I notice out the gates is the very blurry background pad + the reverb on one of the instruments (not sure which) are overlapping and creating background muddiness.  Contrast the very wet sound of the background pads and other instruments to the drums.  The drums sound very dry in comparison.  There's got to be a way where you can meet in the middle between those elements so they don't feel so separate from one another.

1:19 and 1:28, possible clipping there.  It might be the electric piano/bell type sound.

I'd recommend adding some bigger drum fills at the end of some of the phrases.  My thought on that is there could be more variation to the drums.  Right now it sounds like mostly same loop every two bars for the A sections.  We get a nice change-up in the middle section, 1:30-1:53 (I like how the bass takes the lead here). 2:08-2:11 is the kind of fill I was looking for earlier, but it quickly returns to the same loop again after it.  It was a small injection of energy there that really helps in changing up the flow.

The source has some really cool brass lines in there too, would be really neat to hear some of that line appearing somewhere.  (If I missed it, please let me know!)

[Hemophiliac]

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[Troyificus]

Excellent feedback, thanks dude. The section where the bass takes the lead is actually one of the brass lines repurposed. I deliberately wanted to keep this stripped back as I have a tendency to succumb to feature creep and end up with way too much in the soundscape cluttering everything up. I'll take your feedback and see what I can implement. Thanks again!

[Hemophiliac]

1 hour ago, Troyificus said:

Excellent feedback, thanks dude. The section where the bass takes the lead is actually one of the brass lines repurposed. I deliberately wanted to keep this stripped back as I have a tendency to succumb to feature creep and end up with way too much in the soundscape cluttering everything up. I'll take your feedback and see what I can implement. Thanks again!

Ah cool ok, that's my unfamiliarity with the source.  I did give it a few listens before I made the post, but not enough to have it become super ingrained in my brain.  I agree though, that middle section is a good contrast to the other two and should be more relaxed.  Having less parts playing is a good way to achieve that.

[Troyificus]

Alrighty, here's a new version. Setting to 'Ready for Review' again.

 

[Hemophiliac]

Something happened in the second half with the snare that's causing it to be chorusing.  I start hearing it at 2:04 and through to the end.  It happens on most, but not all of the snare hits after that point.

Nice job adding variation to the bass and drums in various places!  They definitely help and prevents the track from getting stale quickly.

1:19 and 1:28 still have some kind of distortion going on.  Like I said before, it might be clipping or it could be some other distortion effect getting too hot for a moment.

At this point, those minor issues could be addressed and then it's up to you to decide how much you want to add things to take this to the next-level.  When I say that, I'm talking about ear candy.  Melodic embellishments, additional background elements that change (like synth modulation), or anything else you can think of that will add interest to the track.  Those things are not necessary, but recommended if you want to take it to the next-level.

[Hemophiliac]

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[Troyificus]

OK, fixed the drums and clipping issues. Honestly don't what embellishments I can make to this, that's kinda where I fall down in making remixes 

Thank you for all the help. I'll send this in for the Christmas album and might try my luck with the judges if I'm feeling brave.

[Troyificus]

I'm back with an updated and hopefully better track! I'm sure there are still issues, so please let me know what needs attention!

 

[Hemophiliac]

From 0:09-1:12 the bass is mixed quiet compared to everything else.  When you get to 1:13 and the electric bass comes in, it's MASSIVE when coming from a quieter bass previously.  I think those two things could be brought closer together in terms of weight/volume.

2:11-2:20 There's too much reverb or a ton of overlapping notes causing a wash of mud over the whole track.  It could be the tubular bells too.  Look into this and see what the culprit is.

1:36-1:53 has something disagreeing between the low bass pad that sounds more panned to the left and the choir-like pad.  Could be close notes in a low range just making things muddy or a dissonance, very hard to tell.

I agree with the judges too, you should really add some variation especially in the second half (2:21-3:05)

prophetik music directly said this:

Quote

there's some ways to improve that, including adding additional elements, varying your instrumentation throughout, altering chords, and messing with the melodic material itself. any of those changes would make a huge boost in the overall level of the mix.

Add embellishments to the melody, invert it, something!  Or go a different direction and add your own solo over the top of the chord progression during that section.

This could also be a benefit to do with the first half as well, do small changes to the melody after playing the same thing two times in a row.

I'm a little confused by what seems to be "rock" drumkit, but there's an electric sounding kick.  Just makes it feel really separate from the rest of the kit.

The vibe is still cool, you just need to take it to the next level with the details.

[Hemophiliac]

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[Troyificus]

See, this is why I checked again before submitting to the Christmas Album

Thank you, @Hemophiliac. Your advice is spot-on as always, The drum thing is a bit odd, as everything is from the same sample-pack, and I've replaced the snare and kick since last time I posted the mix for evaluation. I would very much love to add a solo over the top of the second half, but that's far beyond my skill level. I have however removed 8 bars of repetition from the beginning and created a mostly new end section, as well as addressing the other mixing errors you mentioned. The problem is now that I don't know if is too much of a departure from the original source

 

[Hemophiliac]

Beyond your skill level?? What is that nonsense??

What's all that other stuff you wrote around it?  That's all solo material!

I don't recall if this was an issue in the previous version, but the section where the bass is the focus (0:54-1:14) gets very thin.  I apologize if this is something I missed in the previous version.  Having some of it be thin is a good idea for a textural contrast to the rest of the piece, but I would consider bringing in the pad that starts in the section following (1:15-1:54).  That thin pad could fill the space that the bass solo section has and then also smooth over into the transition to the next section.

Which brings me to the middle section (1:15-1:54).  This is much better!  The bells are nice and that low end mud is gone!  Good job.

I'm still hearing a lot of sustain/reverb wash in the second half especially when the tubular bells do the descending line (2:25-2:28 for example)

I agree you probably went too far away from the source melody in the second half, but you have the right idea with what you were going for!  Use the source melody here and do small embellishments instead of bigger gestures.

Still feel like the bass in the A sections (0:09-0:53 and 1:54-2:47) could be brought out some more.

Taking out the repetition really helped a lot too, it's much more palatable now.

Good improvements.

[Hemophiliac]

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[Troyificus]

Thank you once again for the amazing feedback, @Hemophiliac. The solo bass did have more low-end in the previous version, but I removed it to try and level it out with the rest of the bassline. It added back in now, but I feel I may have boosted the rest of the bass a little too much, but that might be my headphones.
The end section gave me a little trouble, so I split the difference and kept the first part mostly the same then re-added the main hook with chords underneath for the second part, which feels like it works to me, but of course I'd like to hear your thoughts.

 

Edited December 14, 2023 by Troyificus

[Hemophiliac]

0:00-0:36 source A section

0:37-0:54 original

0:55-1:13 source

1:14-1:53 original, wasn't picking up the source here (if i'm wrong let me know)

1:54-2:12 source A section

2:13-2:48 source with interpretation and embellishments fit in

2:49-3:06 fade out that's the intro with sleighbells added.

124/183  I was a bit generous with not chopping my count during the final section.  Amount feels appropriate though.

Levels feel so much more balanced now, especially in the bass.  In the 1:14-1:53 section, it feels like a good opportunity to find a way to connect it to the source in some way.

2:12, 2:14, 2:21, 2:23 I'm hearing something funny in the low end, maybe bass notes that are too close to another instrument (in range).

0:19 the lead that starts there could probably have the delay on it lessened, when you hear it during the final section (2:13-2:48) there's a lot going on and it's adding too much.  Don't get rid of it, just reduce the wetness or amount of echoes some.

This is really close to done imo!

[Hemophiliac]

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[Troyificus]

Thank you again @Hemophiliac. One slight amendment is that 0:37-0:54 is from the source. It's 4 bars stretched to 8 that plays from about 0:55 - 1:04 of the original track underneath the trumpet that I turned into the solo bass section.

I've fixed the bass issue at 2:12 etc. There was a midi trigger on one of the synths that was triggering at the same time, Also reduced the delay across the entire stem for that synth that was likely causing issues.

I played around with adding source into the 1:14-1:53 section but nothing really clicks. I added in a single bar right in the middle, but that's all that really sounded right to me.

 

[Hemophiliac]

Lead does feel just a little too loud.

1:13 I'm thinking a transition into this section is needed, because the previous one ends with a strong conclusion and then the next section is such a big contrast to the previous one that it almost is a brand new song.

1:24-1:26 that descending line!  That's perfect, it alludes to the source!  If you figure out more things like that to do, go for it.

2:31-2:45 Consider adding a crescendo to the warm background pad to help lift up the ending with some more energy.

Address those things and I think you're done!  I hope you're proud of this because it's come a long way!

 

Edited December 16, 2023 by Hemophiliac

[Troyificus]

Thank you so much for all your help with this, @Hemophiliac. I am proud of it, and I wouldn't have gotten to this point without you.

I'll find something to use as a stronger transition and lower the lead a smidge. I don't have much free time between now and the album deadline so that'll be my last revision. And I'll re-submit it for evaluation as well, it'll be interesting to see how it goes down with the judges in it's new state.

Thank you again!