MIDI import syncing problem

[RubberOnion]

I used to write a lot of music in MIDI. It eventually evolved to the point where I would convert each "track" (like string, brass sections) to wav and alter it the best I could to make it sound "real". Now I'm using sound fonts in FL to try to convert my old MIDI's to a better sound.

My problem comes when I import the MIDI's.

In a new FL file, I select inport MIDI and select import all tracks.

When I play it, there are parts of the song where it increasingly becomes out of sinc... things get shifted here and there by 16th notes and sometimes whole measures if they don't have something playing directly before them.

My question is, am I doing something wrong on import? Is this an issue in FL itself? Am I dumb?

I don't want to have to rewrite all the music just because of this syncing problem. Anyone encountered it and have a solution?

[OverCoat]

FL Studio wasn't designed for the whole song to be in one pattern. It loads that pattern to memory and once it gets to a certain level of size and complexity, it starts performing very slowly, particularly when using the MIDI synthesizer, which for some reason has a slower response time than anything else, at least in my experience. For example, FL's metronome will not work with an all MIDI song. I have to deal with this horrible issue when I participate in Kwakfests or other MIDI compos. I'm assuming "Enable MIDI Master Sync" under the Options menu is related to this, but it doesn't seem to fix anything.

[MaliceX]

Honestly, use a different program if you're going to handle MIDI to Audio conversion. COCKOS REAPER should do the trick.

Or even, that VSTHost program by Hermann-seib, add in whatever sampler vsti's you're using, set what channels is to be used in the MIDI, open the midi, record (wav live render), play, save.

I've never had too much luck with FL and MIDI notation importing. Controllers get omitted, and well depending on how things are laid out in the MIDI, some notes clash with channels that use more than one instrument etc.

[RubberOnion]

Thanks for the quick responses guys. That was informative, if a bit depressing haha. So I guess my question then becomes, if I'm going to write any more music with midi (i like the notational control) and if I write a long file right IN FLs itself... it'll have a problem dealing with it? I heard that acid is good... and I got that in the sony bundle... but so far I've only used it for mixing SFX for videos... soundtrack/dialogue syncing, that sort of thing. It just seems like a really foreboding program.

andyjayne - you said "try importing channels one at a time into separate patters"... I've tried that before and it always asks me if I want to save, and then will open a new file with just the channel that I've tried to import. And when I do import just one channel... if there's silence before it... it gets shifted. That's probably do to the other problem but at the risk of sounding too "n00bish"... how do you import different midi files into the same fl project file? can you open more than one step sequencer panel?

MaliceX - I'll try to check out those programs... seems everytime I learn a program for something I have to learn another one to pick up the slack of the one I just learned to solve the problem from the last one! haha

[MaliceX]

Well I'll personally tell you right now, use ACID for MIDI editing. IMHO I think it's better than FL's way of doing it. (since version 6, and not to mention, its 'wave chopping' capabilities)

Forget REAPER if you've already got ACID, unless it's not Pro v6.

[OverCoat]

Well I'll personally tell you right now, use ACID for MIDI editing.

you mean Sonar, right?

...you mean Sonar, right?

[RubberOnion]

wow you guys are fast! ok well I don't want to be the guy asking about everything... but if you could direct me to some good tutorials on how to make music in acid using midi (and preferably sound fonts because I just spent a week searching for good ones haha) that would be appreciated. though don't go out of your way or anything... im going to do some searching on my own anyway.

i really just want to write orchestral music and have it sound better than... well... typical midi

[MaliceX]

Actually, I use WinJammer Pro for starting a MIDI, (Some say it's a 'lite' version of Cakewalk, by interface.) but I move it to ACID if I plan to make anything drastic. It IS possible to make a MIDI with just ACID, it's just a matter of knowing how to put in controller events, and putting tempo changes uses a different method (to cater for the wave loop system mechanics) which takes a bit more time to do.

Well, firstly you'd need something like Cakewalk sfz (free SOundfont player VSTi) to be able to use soundfonts under an audio host, unless it already has one (FL does.)

Make a MIDI track, drag out a clip, open the edit clip pool (for the blank MIDI segment) and a window should open up. There you can write notes, edit any graph controls such as volume, panning, and whatever, though you can already do that in the normal timeline window which is much easier. (Uses lines than instances of events, sort of like comparing vector lines to pixel lines.)

I can help you out in using ACID if you like.

Sock: Fuck SONAR. That shit's too complicated, just like windows; too many useless functions. You should try WinJammer Pro for a 'clean' MIDI sequencer. (1997 program, still using today. All you'll ever need in one, just memorize the rest.)

[Souliarc]

Sock: Fuck SONAR. That shit's too complicated, just like windows; too many useless functions

It's okay if you can't get all the way up the learning curve. Just roll back down... and then curse it. That'll help.

[MaliceX]

Nah, any Cakewalk program I will drop simply because it's just far too perplexing or uncomfortable in interface. (Rapture and Dimension Pro VSTi's are an exception, tried the demo. Liking it) Aside from that, all of them I've had issues with stability; SONAR actually BSOD'd me during config.

Cubase, in my opinion, is much easier to understand and use than SONAR (though a friend has Logic 4 for windows, god damn that's even more confusing) as well as FL and ACID Pro.

Anyway the main point of focus here is to assist this dude on getting MIDI stuff to an audio file that sounds good.

[RubberOnion]

Years ago I got JazzWare and it was probably the most simplified thing I've ever seen... really easy just to click and drag out sustain in the piano roll and that's about it. No really ability to change the tempo or anything but I like it because it's the closest to just "playing" it.

I'm completely proficient in using it (because it's so simple) but there are often things I want to do like a crescendo during a sustained note that I can't do with that program... that's when I would just convert it to a wav and import that wav into acid and use the volume tags to manually make the effect I wanted.

Does it make any real sense to learn to write the music in ACID itself? I might be able to answer my own question there because I want to hear the MIDI utilizing the soundfonts I have as I write them (which I can't do with JazzWare). I checked out cakewalk sfz... (http://www.rgcaudio.com/sfz.htm) is that what you meant? It'd take a bit of reading because I'm not exactly an "electronic" musician... but I'm not a one man orchestra either so I'm trying to find a happy medium haha.

I'm going to try working in Acid and see what I come up with. The only thing I'm having a hard time grasping right now is the soundfont "host" issue. It's pretty new to me at the moment.

[MaliceX]

There should be a download of Cakewalk sfz in that site there. It'll run as a VSTi, so if you insert that as a Soft Synth instrument in the host, you can then open soundfonts within that thing. I don't think it supports multichannel under a single session unless I'm mistaken. (I don't use it myself often) But that should do the trick. There are alternatives however such as SynthFont, but I currently do not know if they are just as good if not better.

Crescendos should be a cinch to do, it's a matter of setting volume change markers on the timeline (right-click, insert envelope/automation), or creating a line of volume change events in the MIDI graph editor (on the bottom of the piano roll window of the MIDI clip editor)

Fammiliarise yourself with the interface and it shouldn't be too hard. Or just import directly into ACID. (There's three ways to import. You'll have to right-click the MIDI in question in the Explorer pane at the bottom to see those options which are:

--Import MIDI with no events drawn

--Import MIDI (with clips no events rippled)

--Import MIDI (with clips and events rippled)

Or something along those lines, but you'll notice the difference.

It's suggested you vertically zoom in the track sizes to see more options in those tracks on the left of the screen.

Setting tempo changes, apparently is one downside of ACID. Rather than a graph, you will have to make do with setting markers to adjust tempo changes (as well as key and time signature adjustment, this is to cater for the loop stretching system apparently...)

(An alternative is using a different program as a host, use ACID for rewire client, and use the rewire host to control tempo though this complicates a few things.)

It is possible to control every MIDI controller in ACID Pro. FL Studio can not control every single MIDI controller change simply because of its interface catered for automating via graph automation windows hidden under knobs in softsynths. (It is however good in other things that are not relavent to this topic) YOu'll be able to see every event in one window if you prefer, though you can hide those in case things become too crowded or cluttered.

Any further questions? I'll gladly assist.

PS: Oh, JazzWare Jazz++, I heard of that. People I know only use it because Anvil Studio can't do certain things when starting a MIDI on that.

[OverCoat]

Holy fucking shit, hold the fuck up. No solution can be this complicated.

I think I forgot to say, once you replace all the MIDI channels with synths and samples in FL, it should stop being so desynced. Try that. If all the synths and samples are loaded and the song plays fine, you can forget the hundreds of programs MaliceX namedropped and just stick with FL.

Also, Cockos Reaper sounds like a VGMix injoke, dunno why. Stupid name for... well, anything.

[MaliceX]

That's a blind statement. I've already said to forget about COCKOS if he had ACID already. I've only mentioned Cakewalk sfz and Sony ACID Pro as things he could use at this point. The previous post of mine is just an explanation of ways of using ACID to his need.

That other post mentioning Cubase and SONAR is in response to Souliarc's post.

You sir are on drugs. O_o

[OverCoat]

You sir are on drugs. O_o

maybe (´ー`)y-~~

I was also just saying that Cockos Reaper sounded funny

[Souliarc]

That other post mentioning Cubase and SONAR is in response to Souliarc's post.

I will not tolerate this "response" you speak of!

Wait... what's going on? Something about Soc doing drugs? Talk about common knowledge.

[MaliceX]

soc: It is a weird program as well, but it's about as good as any, just has no limitations other than nag screens.

Souliarc: Well you BETTER tolerate it or I'm telling on yoooouuu.. T_T

At a further note, soc has a point. If you wish to still use FL Studio, follow his advice. Otherwise I'm willing to assist on any questions regarding MIDI to Audio in ACID.